Is SPORT mode more efficient than COMFORT? 35d Motorway Driving

Soul_Glo · 03-08-2019, 01:32 AM

Is it me or is sport more efficient than comfort on a long motorway run?

Last week I thought I would try out SPORT (stick left) all week. 43-46 mpg. Comfort usually nets 36-38 mpg.

Eco Pro. What's that? That has been around 41-42 mpg but with cruise locked on 70 mph. Sorry to annoy anyone on the M4. I do try keep left though.

330XDave · 03-08-2019, 01:44 AM

I very much doubt it myself. Not sure how it can be when the engine is constantly running at 500rpm+ more than Comfort mode.

ian332isport · 03-08-2019, 01:59 AM

I had an e46 330d with 6 speed manual before my F31, and that was much more economical in 5th unless you were doing 85+.

At 70 in 6th, you had to give it more throttle to maintain speed. In 5th, you could just feather the throttle, and you could see the difference on the economy gauge. I find similar is true in the F31.

It’s not all about revs. Throttle input is also important.

Soul_Glo · 03-08-2019, 02:09 AM

I dunno Dave. My theory is that in comfort if you slow down or have to overtake you have to give it a bit of gas. With sport as you're revving high already it doesn't take as long to get back to up to speed. I sat there at 70mph with the gear in S8 and it was reading 40-50 mpg most way on the dial.

bishbosh · 03-08-2019, 02:15 AM

I did a 110 mile trip last weekend and the average mpg went up from 40.1 to 40.2. This was doing roughly 80 for most of that and in Comfort mode.

On the return trip I stuck it in EcoPro, no cruise control and stuck to 70. Average mpg went up to 40.3.

Obviously it would have been better to reset the long term average before each trip to get a more reliable figure for that particular trip. Since it's a regular journey I do I might try the same in Sport as well.

GEP77 · 03-08-2019, 02:37 AM

Doing any of these mpg tests over short distances is pretty meaningless to be honest. There are just too many variables that you aren't taking into consideration when performing them.

In reality there is likely to be a small difference between the two modes, ECO PRO has one very big advantage over both sport and comfort and that is the coasting feature, on long motorway runs it is amazing to see how much time the engine is doing pretty much nothing other than powering the stereo!

Driving style and traffic conditions have a lot more impact on economy though than driving modes. Someone who drives smoothly without large throttle and brake inputs will always use less fuel than someone who drives aggressively regardless of what driving mode you are in.

JD6 · 03-08-2019, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chelsea_Tractor

I dunno Dave. My theory is that in comfort if you slow down or have to overtake you have to give it a bit of gas. With sport as you're revving high already it doesn't take as long to get back to up to speed. I sat there at 70mph with the gear in S8 and it was reading 40-50 mpg most way on the dial.

At a steady 70mph my car would be showing a fuel economy figure in the low 50s in Comfort mode, so the fuel economy you were seeing suggests that Sport uses more fuel, as you might expect given the higher revs.

The 35d engine has enough low end shove that it hardly ever needs to change down on the motorway in my experience

What car do you have? You recently mentioned your 320d and your profile says X5M.

doncarlyon · 03-08-2019, 03:39 AM

Mine proved to lose quite a few mpg by using sports auto. That is a 20d tho....

It feels better in sports auto tho, normal mode is up and down the gears too much for my liking.

SkyJawa · 03-08-2019, 03:49 AM

I only ever drive in sport or sport+ (But not stick left unless I want it) the other modes aren’t worth bothering with for the sake of 1-2mpg.

dangerous_al · 03-08-2019, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishbosh

Obviously it would have been better to reset the long term average before each trip to get a more reliable figure for that particular trip. Since it's a regular journey I do I might try the same in Sport as well.

There are two mpg calculations, there is the one that shows in the dash and then there is the trip one in idrive. You can check the box to automatically reset the trip computer after each journey, it does not affect the figures that show in the dash. That way you have a more reliable average for the journey and I then reset the mpg in the main one each time I fill up so I can see what mpg I get to each tank which varies wildly depending on the type of driving (town or motorway)

I also have the trip computer on one of the memory buttons so I can get straight to it without going through idrive

Consett Mag · 03-08-2019, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

I only ever drive in sport or sport+ (But not stick left unless I want it) the other modes aren’t worth bothering with for the sake of 1-2mpg.

I'm only guessing but I'd think that there'd be a little more than 1-2mpg between eco mode and a sport mode. But I take your point.

It's clear the eco mode isn't everyone's choice, even for a moment.

Goneinsixtyseconds · 03-08-2019, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330XDave

I very much doubt it myself. Not sure how it can be when the engine is constantly running at 500rpm+ more than Comfort mode.

That isn't what happens though.

I think the OP is talking the cars modes, i.e. eco pro, comfort, sport or sport plus, not the pushing of the gearbox to the left and holding onto gears longer and removing the option of 8th.

I switch my 440i from comfort to sport as soon as I get in the car every single trip. I hate the throttle delay in the other modes. I'm quite happy to control the throttle with my foot, don't need a computer to do it for me.

I drove from Chesterfield to Hastings and back this week on one tank of fuel, 485 miles, all in Sport mode and the majority in 8th gear. But not gearbox in Sport. I set cruise on motorway, so revs are same in any mode. But, in Sport if I have to slow down, it accelerates back to speed much much quicker when I reset cruise, which I'm told is just as economical, if not more so, than a slow return to speed.

330XDave · 03-08-2019, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

That isn't what happens though.

I think the OP is talking the cars modes, i.e. eco pro, comfort, sport or sport plus, not the pushing of the gearbox to the left and holding onto gears longer and removing the option of 8th.

I switch my 440i from comfort to sport as soon as I get in the car every single trip. I hate the throttle delay in the other modes. I'm quite happy to control the throttle with my foot, don't need a computer to do it for me.

I drove from Chesterfield to Hastings and back this week on one tank of fuel, 485 miles, all in Sport mode and the majority in 8th gear. But not gearbox in Sport. I set cruise on motorway, so revs are same in any mode. But, in Sport if I have to slow down, it accelerates back to speed much much quicker when I reset cruise, which I'm told is just as economical, if not more so, than a slow return to speed.

I'm pretty sure my gearbox changes even when in Sport mode and gear stick to the right though? It definitely hold on to gears for longer without a doubt.

Watsey · 03-08-2019, 04:44 AM

Your gearbox must have a different map to mine - the ZF AT in my 2012 30D won't stay in 8th in Sport mode.

I think there's a trade-off between the higher revs in Sport mode due to the 'box generally being 1 or 2 ratios lower than it would be in Comfort mode, versus more clutch lock-up rather than more use of the torque converter in Comfort.

I tend to see a reduction in mpg in Sport, not only due to my driving style (Sport/Sport+ for pushing-on), but couldn't put a precise figure on it as I don't tend to stay in one gearbox mode for the entire journey (especially long runs).

330XDave · 03-08-2019, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

Your gearbox must have a different map to mine - the ZF AT in my 2012 30D won't stay in 8th in Sport mode.

I think there's a trade-off between the higher revs in Sport mode due to the 'box generally being 1 or 2 ratios lower than it would be in Comfort mode, versus more clutch lock-up rather than more use of the torque converter in Comfort.

I tend to see a reduction in mpg in Sport, not only due to my driving style (Sport/Sport+ for pushing-on), but couldn't put a precise figure on it as I don't tend to stay in one gearbox mode for the entire journey (especially long runs).

Could be the diesel gearbox map is different to the petrol one Watsey as my 30d is the same as yours. Either that or it is different post facelift.

Hooded · 03-08-2019, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

Your gearbox must have a different map to mine - the ZF AT in my 2012 30D won't stay in 8th in Sport mode.

I think there's a trade-off between the higher revs in Sport mode due to the 'box generally being 1 or 2 ratios lower than it would be in Comfort mode, versus more clutch lock-up rather than more use of the torque converter in Comfort.

I tend to see a reduction in mpg in Sport, not only due to my driving style (Sport/Sport+ for pushing-on), but couldn't put a precise figure on it as I don't tend to stay in one gearbox mode for the entire journey (especially long runs).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the newer second generation of the gearbox that came out mid 2014 can stay in 8th gear in Sport mode, but the first gen doesnt.

Hooded · 03-08-2019, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

Your gearbox must have a different map to mine - the ZF AT in my 2012 30D won't stay in 8th in Sport mode.

I think there's a trade-off between the higher revs in Sport mode due to the 'box generally being 1 or 2 ratios lower than it would be in Comfort mode, versus more clutch lock-up rather than more use of the torque converter in Comfort.

I tend to see a reduction in mpg in Sport, not only due to my driving style (Sport/Sport+ for pushing-on), but couldn't put a precise figure on it as I don't tend to stay in one gearbox mode for the entire journey (especially long runs).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the newer second generation of the gearbox that came out mid 2014 can stay in 8th gear in Sport mode, but the first gen doesnt.

Goneinsixtyseconds · 03-08-2019, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooded

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the newer second generation of the gearbox that came out mid 2014 can stay in 8th gear in Sport mode, but the first gen doesnt.

You must be right, mine definitely stays in 8th. In fact, it only holds onto gears longer if I'm pressing on. Driving normally it's just the same as any other mode, but with a throttle I control.

Think I've heard the same before about older cars not doing it.

It would ruin the whole car for me if I had to choose between a delayed throttle response, or economy. It seems in the newer version it makes more sense, that you can have both, no real compromise.

The ZF was set the same in my Audi biturbo and in our Q7 now. I could/can drive permanently in dynamic to ensure I have good throttle response, but it still cruises in the same gear and the same rpm on a run.

330XDave · 03-08-2019, 05:38 AM

My car is March 2015 so should have updated gearbox. I'm going out soon so I'll have a fiddle about to see what happens.

HighlandPete · 03-08-2019, 06:30 AM

Interesting comments.

Seems we can be talking about different sport settings. If we are in sport mode but still using the comfort gearbox map, there can't be any difference in economy, as gear changes will be identical. Any variation on the same gearbox map, will be throttle use. If we accelerate at the same rate, whatever throttle mapping we are using, (even Eco-Pro) economy will be the same.

Once we use M/S or sport gearbox mapping we will blunt economy in the same driving conditions, simply due to higher revs, which add friction and pumping losses. Hence the expression "Gear Up and Throttle Down".

Checking figures on the OBC on the odd run is a bit futile, as there are too many variables. Properly conducted tests (repeatable) show highest gear, lowest revs (when cruising) is most economical. Never seen a test result where it is the other way around.

HighlandPete · 03-08-2019, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Think I've heard the same before about older cars not doing it.

Yes, older build ZF 8HP locked out 8th gear in Sport mode. Same as the older ZF 5HP & 6HP boxes locked out the top gear in the Sport programming.

330XDave · 03-08-2019, 06:51 AM

Ok so after a quick drive it appears one persons Sport setting can be very different to another persons Sport setting. If you have "drivetrain" selected for Sport in the driving mode settings then the gearbox will go in to Sport mode. If you don't then it will remain the same but with a sharp throttle response. I think this is where the confusion arises from, some people will have "drivetrain" selected in Sport mode and others won't.

It probably didn't help that most of the time I bypass Sport and just go straight to Sport+ as the lower level of traction control in this mode makes less difference in 4wd, and in Sport+ the gearbox changes regardless of the settings.

03-08-2019, 01:32 AM	#1
Soul_Glo Major General 13347 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	Is SPORT mode more efficient than COMFORT? 35d Motorway Driving Is it me or is sport more efficient than comfort on a long motorway run? Last week I thought I would try out SPORT (stick left) all week. 43-46 mpg. Comfort usually nets 36-38 mpg. Eco Pro. What's that? That has been around 41-42 mpg but with cruise locked on 70 mph. Sorry to annoy anyone on the M4. I do try keep left though.
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03-08-2019, 01:44 AM	#2
330XDave Major 629 Rep 1,470 Posts Drives: 330d xDrive Touring Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Nottingham, UK iTrader: (0)	I very much doubt it myself. Not sure how it can be when the engine is constantly running at 500rpm+ more than Comfort mode.
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03-08-2019, 01:59 AM	#3
ian332isport Major 705 Rep 1,141 Posts Drives: F31 340i Shadow Edition Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I had an e46 330d with 6 speed manual before my F31, and that was much more economical in 5th unless you were doing 85+. At 70 in 6th, you had to give it more throttle to maintain speed. In 5th, you could just feather the throttle, and you could see the difference on the economy gauge. I find similar is true in the F31. It’s not all about revs. Throttle input is also important.
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03-08-2019, 02:09 AM	#4
Soul_Glo Major General 13347 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	I dunno Dave. My theory is that in comfort if you slow down or have to overtake you have to give it a bit of gas. With sport as you're revving high already it doesn't take as long to get back to up to speed. I sat there at 70mph with the gear in S8 and it was reading 40-50 mpg most way on the dial.
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03-08-2019, 02:15 AM	#5
bishbosh Lieutenant Colonel 840 Rep 1,993 Posts Drives: F30 335d Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Sheffield iTrader: (1) Garage List 2014 BMW 335d [0.00]	I did a 110 mile trip last weekend and the average mpg went up from 40.1 to 40.2. This was doing roughly 80 for most of that and in Comfort mode. On the return trip I stuck it in EcoPro, no cruise control and stuck to 70. Average mpg went up to 40.3. Obviously it would have been better to reset the long term average before each trip to get a more reliable figure for that particular trip. Since it's a regular journey I do I might try the same in Sport as well. __________________ if I've helped - an Appreciate would be, er, very appreciated!
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03-08-2019, 02:37 AM	#6
GEP77 Major 409 Rep 1,162 Posts Drives: Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: South East London iTrader: (1)	Doing any of these mpg tests over short distances is pretty meaningless to be honest. There are just too many variables that you aren't taking into consideration when performing them. In reality there is likely to be a small difference between the two modes, ECO PRO has one very big advantage over both sport and comfort and that is the coasting feature, on long motorway runs it is amazing to see how much time the engine is doing pretty much nothing other than powering the stereo! Driving style and traffic conditions have a lot more impact on economy though than driving modes. Someone who drives smoothly without large throttle and brake inputs will always use less fuel than someone who drives aggressively regardless of what driving mode you are in.
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03-08-2019, 03:39 AM	#8
doncarlyon Captain 258 Rep 757 Posts Drives: Megane RS 300 Trophy Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne iTrader: (0)	Mine proved to lose quite a few mpg by using sports auto. That is a 20d tho.... It feels better in sports auto tho, normal mode is up and down the gears too much for my liking.
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03-08-2019, 03:49 AM	#9
SkyJawa Major General 3719 Rep 8,636 Posts Drives: F10 530d Join Date: May 2014 Location: Hampshire iTrader: (1)	I only ever drive in sport or sport+ (But not stick left unless I want it) the other modes aren’t worth bothering with for the sake of 1-2mpg.
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03-08-2019, 04:44 AM	#14
Watsey Major General 6419 Rep 8,500 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	Your gearbox must have a different map to mine - the ZF AT in my 2012 30D won't stay in 8th in Sport mode. I think there's a trade-off between the higher revs in Sport mode due to the 'box generally being 1 or 2 ratios lower than it would be in Comfort mode, versus more clutch lock-up rather than more use of the torque converter in Comfort. I tend to see a reduction in mpg in Sport, not only due to my driving style (Sport/Sport+ for pushing-on), but couldn't put a precise figure on it as I don't tend to stay in one gearbox mode for the entire journey (especially long runs). __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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03-08-2019, 05:38 AM	#19
330XDave Major 629 Rep 1,470 Posts Drives: 330d xDrive Touring Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Nottingham, UK iTrader: (0)	My car is March 2015 so should have updated gearbox. I'm going out soon so I'll have a fiddle about to see what happens.
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03-08-2019, 06:30 AM	#20
HighlandPete Lieutenant General 6659 Rep 15,858 Posts Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Scotland, Highland Region iTrader: (0)	Interesting comments. Seems we can be talking about different sport settings. If we are in sport mode but still using the comfort gearbox map, there can't be any difference in economy, as gear changes will be identical. Any variation on the same gearbox map, will be throttle use. If we accelerate at the same rate, whatever throttle mapping we are using, (even Eco-Pro) economy will be the same. Once we use M/S or sport gearbox mapping we will blunt economy in the same driving conditions, simply due to higher revs, which add friction and pumping losses. Hence the expression "Gear Up and Throttle Down". Checking figures on the OBC on the odd run is a bit futile, as there are too many variables. Properly conducted tests (repeatable) show highest gear, lowest revs (when cruising) is most economical. Never seen a test result where it is the other way around.
	Appreciate 1 Soul_Glo13347.00 Quote

03-08-2019, 06:51 AM	#22
330XDave Major 629 Rep 1,470 Posts Drives: 330d xDrive Touring Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Nottingham, UK iTrader: (0)	Ok so after a quick drive it appears one persons Sport setting can be very different to another persons Sport setting. If you have "drivetrain" selected for Sport in the driving mode settings then the gearbox will go in to Sport mode. If you don't then it will remain the same but with a sharp throttle response. I think this is where the confusion arises from, some people will have "drivetrain" selected in Sport mode and others won't. It probably didn't help that most of the time I bypass Sport and just go straight to Sport+ as the lower level of traction control in this mode makes less difference in 4wd, and in Sport+ the gearbox changes regardless of the settings.
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