[CP911]

Hello all,

I'm looking to bleed my M Sport brakes for the first time in preparation for a HPDE event in late March. When researching how to do this, I came across the official BMW instructions, which mention using an "ISID" computer program to manually run the ABS/DSC pump as part of the process to fully purge the system of all old fluid and air bubbles. I guess if you do not include this step to purge the DSC pump, the brake pedal is likely to feel a bit mushy instead of firm, even after filling with fresh fluid.

Are there any readily available alternatives to this "ISID" application for the DIY'er to perform a proper brake fluid change at home, either through an iPhone app + bluetooth/WiFi dongle or hardwire connection to a PC/Mac? I'd really appreciate hearing about any first-hand experiences you might have with bleeding these blue caliper M Sport brakes.

Thanks!

[khj24]

Originally Posted by CP911

Hello all,

I'm looking to bleed my M Sport brakes for the first time in preparation for a HPDE event in late March. When researching how to do this, I came across the official BMW instructions, which mention using an "ISID" computer program to manually run the ABS/DSC pump as part of the process to fully purge the system of all old fluid and air bubbles. I guess if you do not include this step to purge the DSC pump, the brake pedal is likely to feel a bit mushy instead of firm, even after filling with fresh fluid.

Are there any readily available alternatives to this "ISID" application for the DIY'er to perform a proper brake fluid change at home, either through an iPhone app + bluetooth/WiFi dongle or hardwire connection to a PC/Mac? I'd really appreciate hearing about any first-hand experiences you might have with bleeding these blue caliper M Sport brakes.

Thanks!

Never even heard of this, I did a normal bleed (power bleeder) on all four corners and if anything the pedal was firmer feeling than before and the old fluid was in good shape. I wouldn't bother with this at all.

[aerobod]

You can use ISTA/D software on a laptop with an ENET cable to activate the DSC pump in bleed mode to follow the full procedure: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ation/GfgD7vNY

Also, the spec calls for low viscosity DOT 4 fluid, as opposed to conventional DOT 4. If conventional DOT 4 is used in low temperatures, the fluid may be too thick for correct operation of DSC and ABS.

[Funwithdesign]

As long as you don't let the system or the abs pump go dry then you can bleed using the standard methods.

[aturk]

Originally Posted by khj24

Never even heard of this, I did a normal bleed (power bleeder) on all four corners and if anything the pedal was firmer feeling than before and the old fluid was in good shape. I wouldn't bother with this at all.

What bleeder did you use?

What order did you bleed the brakes?

[khj24]

Originally Posted by aturk

What bleeder did you use?

What order did you bleed the brakes?

Motive power bleeder.

RR,RL,FR,FL

[keylime503]

How much would a dealer/indy charge to bleed brakes and replace the brake fluid? I need to get this done before doing another HPDE but unfortunately I don't have a garage or place to do it myself.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by keylime503

How much would a dealer/indy charge to bleed brakes and replace the brake fluid? I need to get this done before doing another HPDE but unfortunately I don't have a garage or place to do it myself.

I see typical labor rates around the bay around $165-$250/hr. I know a friend had his 4-series brake fluid changed at a well respected indy for $250 (yikes)!

As a fellow Bay-Area member, if you can help me find someone to buy one of my extra spring sets, I'll swap your brake fluid for free (you provide the fluid, I like/have been using Castrol SRF for HPDEs).

[CP911]

Thanks for all the responses!

I'm going to be using Motul RBF660 on track and then will bleed and fill up with LV DOT 4 for street use. From what I've been reading, the Motul or any non-LV DOT 4 will thin out nicely at higher track temps.

I bought a Motiv power bleeder for the job.

It's great that some of you had no issues without this additional step, but there are several posts out there with reports of a mushy pedal due to skipping this step. I personally will not be taking any chances on the track. The stock DOT 4 fluid in my old WRX boiled on track and the pedal was going down to the floor as a result. Not fun when coming off a 130mph straight.

Sounds like I need to get my hands on this ISTA/D software. Is it universal code sold under different brands or is there just one source for this software? Is this the only non-OEM software available to perform this job?

Thanks again!

[Rich.Wolfson]

Originally Posted by aerobod

...Also, the spec calls for low viscosity DOT 4 fluid, as opposed to conventional DOT 4. If conventional DOT 4 is used in low temperatures, the fluid may be too thick for correct operation of DSC and ABS.

What is the spec for the 2014 M235i? I have been using Type200 and ATE Blue in alternating years for the last two years. No problems that I know of.

///Rich

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Rich.Wolfson

What is the spec for the 2014 M235i? I have been using Type200 and ATE Blue in alternating years for the last two years. No problems that I know of.

///Rich

All BMWs since the E60 have been specified by BMW to use LV fluid. From the TIS BMW says: “All vehicles with DSC without a pre-charge pump must be filled with new brake fluid DOT 4 with low viscosity.”: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...brakes/1ZycYvV

Turner Motorsports says: “Low viscosity (LV) is a thinner fluid that works better than a normal fluid in the small channels and passageways in the ABS/DSC pump. Using the heavier fluid will result in a delayed response to ABS and DSC activation and a spongy feel in the brake pedal (only during ABS stops)”: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/c-176-bmw-brake-fluid, this is consistent with other info sources.

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by CP911

Hello all,

I'm looking to bleed my M Sport brakes for the first time in preparation for a HPDE event in late March. When researching how to do this, I came across the official BMW instructions, which mention using an "ISID" computer program to manually run the ABS/DSC pump as part of the process to fully purge the system of all old fluid and air bubbles. I guess if you do not include this step to purge the DSC pump, the brake pedal is likely to feel a bit mushy instead of firm, even after filling with fresh fluid.

Are there any readily available alternatives to this "ISID" application for the DIY'er to perform a proper brake fluid change at home, either through an iPhone app + bluetooth/WiFi dongle or hardwire connection to a PC/Mac? I'd really appreciate hearing about any first-hand experiences you might have with bleeding these blue caliper M Sport brakes.

Thanks!

Not sure where I read it, but I understand that ISID use is only necessary if you vacuum bleed the brakes as opposed to pressure bleed. I recently pressure bled mine (Schwaben bleeder) with no issues. I also have been running Castrol React SRF (Dot 4 but not low viscosity) on the street with no issues. Here is a good link for brake fluid comparison:

https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ow=1&SF=4&ST=2

[CP911]

Originally Posted by RotorOver

Not sure where I read it, but I understand that ISID use is only necessary if you vacuum bleed the brakes as opposed to pressure bleed. I recently pressure bled mine (Schwaben bleeder) with no issues. I also have been running Castrol React SRF (Dot 4 but not low viscosity) on the street with no issues. Here is a good link for brake fluid comparison:

https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ow=1&SF=4&ST=2

According to the official BMW TIS for bleeding M Sport brakes, this procedure is to be done even when using a power bleeder aka filling from the expansion tank like normal. Does not mention anything about vacuum bleeding. Just FYI.

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by CP911

According to the official BMW TIS for bleeding M Sport brakes, this procedure is to be done even when using a power bleeder aka filling from the expansion tank like normal. Does not mention anything about vacuum bleeding. Just FYI.

Thanks, great info! I wonder how much a difference it makes? Like I said, even without doing that procedure the brakes run fine. I suppose you have considered if you are changing fluid whether it can be mixed.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by RotorOver

Thanks, great info! I wonder how much a difference it makes? Like I said, even without doing that procedure the brakes run fine. I suppose you have considered if you are changing fluid whether it can be mixed.

I'm not really sure as I don't have 1st have experience trying it one way or the other, but there are plenty of people out there claiming they had a mushy pedal afterwards. I think it just depends on whether any air bubbles get pushed into the ABS pump after bleeding the brake lines through the caliper vent screws. You might get lucky and not have issues, but then again, maybe not so lucky...

[Maynard]

Great info on the details of the ISID, and more confirmation that push-style bleeders are preferred to vacuum style (at least that is what the factory is using). I think this coding is necessary to fully change out brake fluid, but like an oil change, it isn't fatal to have a little residue of the old left behind. Those 'plenty of people' who note mushiness have to be greatly outnumbered by those who adequately bleed old-style before and after track days (I know 'mushy pedal' is not a common result of those I've talked with, and lots of other possible errors that could cause this). FWIW, I've heard many times that if you don't knock on the calipers to loosen bubbles, you are prone to get that mushiness; also common if the fluid has been boiled on track and you don't replace enough of the old.

For those of you still under the maintenance plan, they will replace brake fluid - either at the 2 year point, or perhaps 'as needed' (like if, somehow, some water got into the reservoir, so that one of those brake test pens showed it was needing replacement?). Probably best to also be free of obvious signs of tracking, like swap out those aftermarket pads and take the numbers off ).

[XutvJet]

I just had the 30K warranty service done on my 2016 M235 and brake fluid replacement was one of the items they covered. I inquired about how easy it would be for me to do it once out of warranty and they said the issue was cycling the pump as it greatly reduces chances of air getting in the lines. They said they often have people bring their cars in to remove air in the lines after they attempted the bleed. So I guess I'll be adding this to the list of maintenance items I'll have to get BMW to do. They said they charge $250 for the service.

[CP911]

Yeah, $250 seems to be the going rate for the dealer service. Not horrible if doing it every couple of years of street driving, but for someone doing even 2-3 track events a year, that adds up way too fast when factoring in the fluid changes back to low-viscosity DOT 4 for normal daily driving after the event is over. I feel like I really don't have a choice but to invest in the ISTA+ software (Developed by Rheingold and formerly known as ISTA/D), which seems to run for anywhere between $16 for a download to $130 for a hard-disk drive pre-loaded with the software. Then, an ICOM cable is needed and these seem to go for anywhere between $200 for aftermarket to ~$800 for the official BMW part number. Need a Windows PC as well, so I need to sacrifice half the RAM on my MacBook to run VirtualBox (virtual Windows machine), or more likely, I'll just buy a cheap Lenovo PC for garage use.

Still researching exactly what the best route is in terms of reliable software resellers and hardware, but so far this all seems pretty straightforward.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by CP911

Yeah, $250 seems to be the going rate for the dealer service. Not horrible if doing it every couple of years of street driving, but for someone doing even 2-3 track events a year, that adds up way too fast when factoring in the fluid changes back to low-viscosity DOT 4 for normal daily driving after the event is over. I feel like I really don't have a choice but to invest in the ISTA+ software (Developed by Rheingold and formerly known as ISTA/D), which seems to run for anywhere between $16 for a download to $130 for a hard-disk drive pre-loaded with the software. Then, an ICOM cable is needed and these seem to go for anywhere between $200 for aftermarket to ~$800 for the official BMW part number. Need a Windows PC as well, so I need to sacrifice half the RAM on my MacBook to run VirtualBox (virtual Windows machine), or more likely, I'll just buy a cheap Lenovo PC for garage use.

Still researching exactly what the best route is in terms of reliable software resellers and hardware, but so far this all seems pretty straightforward.

You can get the Rheingold ENET cable without software for $60: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Certified-E...QAAOSw1iVb6lvw

In terms of software download, it is worth looking here: https://www.car-auto-repair.com/bmw-...win7win8win10/

[CP911]

Isn't the ENET cable different from the ICOM cable? ENET is ethernet >> OBDII. I believe this is used for coding/programming and possibly diagnostics/servicing of older BMWs, however, my understanding is that an ICOM cable/device is required for using ISTA+ to perform manual operations like running the ABS pump during the brake bleed service on newer F-series cars. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[FaRKle!]

You can use an ethernet-->OBDII cable for ISTA. I do it all the time.

The SW is free, there are various forum links to the download locations along with guides. I admit, the install process can seem challenging.

I've never felt the need to run the ABS pump while bleeding/changing my brake fluid, and I track my car about 10 days a year. I use a pressure bleeder (started with the Motive, but have since switched to the Schwaben as I really like the QD feature).

[CP911]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

You can use an ethernet-->OBDII cable for ISTA. I do it all the time.

The SW is free, there are various forum links to the download locations along with guides. I admit, the install process can seem challenging.

I've never felt the need to run the ABS pump while bleeding/changing my brake fluid, and I track my car about 10 days a year. I use a pressure bleeder (started with the Motive, but have since switched to the Schwaben as I really like the QD feature).

What do you use ISTA for in your case? I read somewhere that ENET cable can be used for certain features, but for this particular brake servicing procedure, the ICOM cable is supposedly required. Again, just what I've been reading from various sources online.

Curious, what is the quick disconnect feature for on the Schwaben bleeder? I looked at it briefly, but never noticed a QD feature, and the reviews for the Motiv bleeder were nothing but positive while the Schwaben unit had mixed reviews.