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      02-02-2019, 05:12 PM   #1
vancitymike
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Cold day tire question

tomorrow I'm doing my first autocross, and they actually might have to shut down early if its snowing too much - it should be above freezing, but not much.

I've read a few places that autocross will destroy cheap winter tires. Now, if it were even slightly warmer, I'd switch back to my summer tires without question, however I may not be able to get home (hour away) if the weather gets bad. My winter tires are "performance" pirelli sotozeros - does anyone know if leaving them on is a terrible idea? I guess I don't mind going easy a bit. thanks
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      02-02-2019, 05:53 PM   #2
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What I can say is that it may depend on which Pirelli Winter Sottozero you have: the older Serie-II or newer S3.

The S3 (which I have on my M235i) look like this:



The Serie-II has a very different, asymmetric tread pattern (sorry, no photo') which is much less 'chunky' than the S3. The Serie-II trades-off some snow performance for better dry tarmac handling.


I disclaim any liability for advice, but I'd say that if you have the S3 then it's really not a good track tyre. If you have the Serie-II the dry performance should be better and it should wear less. But that doesn't necessarily mean you want to stress it on a dry competition track.
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      02-02-2019, 07:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msej449 View Post
What I can say is that it may depend on which Pirelli Winter Sottozero you have: the older Serie-II or newer S3.

The S3 (which I have on my M235i) look like this:



The Serie-II has a very different, asymmetric tread pattern (sorry, no photo') which is much less 'chunky' than the S3. The Serie-II trades-off some snow performance for better dry tarmac handling.


I disclaim any liability for advice, but I'd say that if you have the S3 then it's really not a good track tyre. If you have the Serie-II the dry performance should be better and it should wear less. But that doesn't necessarily mean you want to stress it on a dry competition track.

Thanks a lot! I have the series 2, I'll be careful but not too careful.
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      12-24-2019, 09:09 PM   #4
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I'd stick with what you have on. its just autocross, no need to go super fancy, and if its winter where you are, it'll also be winter at the event. so wouldn't make much sense to throw on summer tires especially if you're driving there.

As wear goes, keep an eye on it after each lap but i imagine it wouldn't be anything noticeable.
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      12-25-2019, 09:57 AM   #5
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Curious how it worked out, given that this is an old thread, and spring is right around the corner. Did they chunk out noticeably, or hold together?
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      12-28-2019, 11:56 AM   #6
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I've actually done two track events on my snow tires, 225/45-17 Michelin X-Ice.

The first was a HPDE event at a local training track. It was 25 F and actually snowing for the last run. The second was an auto-x event that started at 15 F.

The auto-x had virtually no impact on the tires. No noticeable difference in wear or tread depth.

The HPDE was not kind to the tires. Noticeable wear, especially to the siping edges, which are now a bit rounded off. And about a 1/32 of wear overall.

Doing the events on snow tires was interesting. Although obviously less grip than summer tires (about .1-.2 G less in corners I've done on summers), and less precision, the tires actually performed quite well. Acceleration was good, braking was good, and after compensating for the less lateral grip still a lot of fun. And most importantly the tires behaved consistently. I was actually impressed with just how well they did.

The people who used their summer/track tires were having just as much of an issue with less grip. After talking with several people running on summers, they complained about inconsistent cornering and sudden loss of grip at the limit. There were a lot of spin-outs that day.

People who had generic all-seasons were actually doing the best in these conditions. (A few people even 'borrowed' their wives cars for tire reasons.)

Overall, I would say for an auto-x event at freezing temps, go ahead and use your winters. Obviously you won't be burning up the track, but you can still have fun. The tires just won't get hot enough, or see enough use, to cause serious wear. The people on summers will have the same poor lateral grip, and probably worse acceleration and braking. And learning how your winter tires work at the limits is useful information.

For track events, that's a harder question. A lot of wear, probably at least a season or two off the life of the tires, and probably as bad as driving a set over the summer. But I've driven on them two winters since then, and they still are working well in the snow/ice, so not completely trashed.
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