BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Tuning Modifications    F90 automatic gearbox concerns

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-08-2018, 09:56 PM   #1
AMOR
First Lieutenant
AMOR's Avatar
102
Rep
352
Posts

Drives: F90
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (2)

Arrow F90 automatic gearbox concerns

Hi guys,

I’m looking at F90 as my possible upgrade car candidate from the F80 and I love the car even more now that the new 3-series has been announced.
I’ve heard that the engine internals have been upgraded and that the new 4.4 V8 is now more reliable, but what about the gearbox? It’s the standard ZF automatic? Seems like an achiles heel of the car. Taking into account the amount of torque it should handle even on a stock car. Thanks for your input.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2018, 10:12 PM   #2
onfireX5
Brigadier General
3617
Rep
4,532
Posts

Drives: F90M5,F85X5M
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Va

iTrader: (0)

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...mission&page=3
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2018, 01:11 PM   #3
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Zero issues... and a layman who isnt a DCT purist fan boy wont even know the difference in the real world. BMW has done a great job with the electronics that allow this ZF to perform like it does. The ZF can easily handle more tq than the DCT and TCU does a great job transferring driver input to the shifts up and down.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 1
Lerxst M4141.00
      10-09-2018, 06:26 PM   #4
AMOR
First Lieutenant
AMOR's Avatar
102
Rep
352
Posts

Drives: F90
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (2)

How about the delay in manual shifting when using paddles? Some people are complaining about that. P.S. not a fanboy of the DCT, but coming from an M3 with a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2018, 06:35 PM   #5
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
6649
Rep
3,683
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOR View Post
How about the delay in manual shifting when using paddles? Some people are complaining about that. P.S. not a fanboy of the DCT, but coming from an M3 with a manual transmission.
It's not bad at all, not the fastest gear box but also not the slowest either.
Every single M3/M4 I owned was MT and it's the best thing ever.
So much more engaging and fun to drive. Some sacrifices needs to be made and I am ok with M5.... I love this car.

Now I heard that new M3 is coming with MT and might come with optional AWD.

If I can get AWD and manual I will drop the M5 like a hot potato. Lol
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2018, 07:36 PM   #6
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOR View Post
How about the delay in manual shifting when using paddles? Some people are complaining about that. P.S. not a fanboy of the DCT, but coming from an M3 with a manual transmission.
I was not alluding that you were but you have to read up on some of the "purists" if one can call a DCT lover that LOL. Hey I have had 15 DCT's in my life so I get it but the ZF is just fine and I forgot to add when I stated that it shifts up and down upon driver input: meaning via the paddles.

If there is a perceptible lag- thats covered in the tq and hp curves that are so flat and so early in the F90's range.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 07:24 AM   #7
saxguy
Private
39
Rep
95
Posts

Drives: 2018 F90 M5
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Central NJ

iTrader: (0)

Do you find that under hard acceleration, even in D3, the actual shifts are a little slow? I know it can't be compared to a DCT.
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 08:22 AM   #8
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxguy View Post
Do you find that under hard acceleration, even in D3, the actual shifts are a little slow? I know it can't be compared to a DCT.
For me, if I ever use D3 (non paddles) then there can be a point in time where there is a lag.

EG: cruising in gear 7-8 in D3 and you want all of sudden want to take over a slower car. You could feel a very slight hesitation if you are slow on the throttle and you are relying solely on the TCU's aggressiveness or lack of it because of D3 is automated. Its a non material issue for me... I call it acceleration lag vs driver input lag.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 08:40 AM   #9
saxguy
Private
39
Rep
95
Posts

Drives: 2018 F90 M5
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Central NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
For me, if I ever use D3 (non paddles) then there can be a point in time where there is a lag.

EG: cruising in gear 7-8 in D3 and you want all of sudden want to take over a slower car. You could feel a very slight hesitation if you are slow on the throttle and you are relying solely on the TCU's aggressiveness or lack of it because of D3 is automated. Its a non material issue for me... I call it acceleration lag vs driver input lag.
I understand what you are saying, but I am referring to being at a full stop and accelerating hard - the shift points are a little rough.
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 09:01 AM   #10
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxguy View Post
I understand what you are saying, but I am referring to being at a full stop and accelerating hard - the shift points are a little rough.
In D3 from a dig? Im not finding them to be rough but its subjective. It might be just a bit more aggressive than the RS7 tuned but the hardware of the ZF basically the same with 1 more gear. It might be a software thing. For me its pretty fluid but I just sold an E63S (2018) and that thing was indeed rough and angry so to speak.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 11:26 AM   #11
slavearm
Lieutenant
226
Rep
482
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5CE MBB/SS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Socal

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxguy View Post
I understand what you are saying, but I am referring to being at a full stop and accelerating hard - the shift points are a little rough.
In D3 from a dig? Im not finding them to be rough but its subjective. It might be just a bit more aggressive than the RS7 tuned but the hardware of the ZF basically the same with 1 more gear. It might be a software thing. For me its pretty fluid but I just sold an E63S (2018) and that thing was indeed rough and angry so to speak.
I drove an F10 quite a bit with DCT. This transmission is better in every single way. It is probably one of the best transmissions on the market without question. Manuals are a different beast, but honestly, this transmission is fantastic. Anyone that says otherwise actually owns a civic and is here living the internet fantasy life, not a real F90 owner.
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 11:47 AM   #12
saxguy
Private
39
Rep
95
Posts

Drives: 2018 F90 M5
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Central NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slavearm View Post
I drove an F10 quite a bit with DCT. This transmission is better in every single way. It is probably one of the best transmissions on the market without question. Manuals are a different beast, but honestly, this transmission is fantastic. Anyone that says otherwise actually owns a civic and is hear living the internet fantasy life, not a real F90 owner.
I actually like the transmission, I just don't know if there's a problem with mine. When I test drove the F90 I thought the shifts were much faster than the car I ended up taking.
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2018, 01:16 PM   #13
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxguy View Post
I actually like the transmission, I just don't know if there's a problem with mine. When I test drove the F90 I thought the shifts were much faster than the car I ended up taking.
Do our cars have adaptable tcu's? If so the test drive car was on a fresh reset and if you even drive your car mellow just a bit, it will adapt to your style. Just typing out loud and trying to see if there is a reason to your statement.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 1
STi2M341.50
      10-11-2018, 08:30 PM   #14
AMOR
First Lieutenant
AMOR's Avatar
102
Rep
352
Posts

Drives: F90
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (2)

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I guess i’ll need to test drive it somehow to get a feeling, but not easy to find a dealer that gives out these cars for test drive. The perfect transmission for me is still a manual and it is the best choice for a weekend fun car which an M car should be. But if it’s a daily and in modern traffic reality we have to make compromise, so I guess on this M5 the compromise is even more towards the comfort, rather than a hard shifting race car as E60 M5 used to be. The best automatic I have driven was a 911 GT3 with a PDK, but it does not have 4 doors and seats with massage of course. 😆
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2018, 08:43 PM   #15
TTHURACAN
Banned
66
Rep
136
Posts

Drives: Lamborghini
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huracan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOR View Post
Hi guys,

I’m looking at F90 as my possible upgrade car candidate from the F80 and I love the car even more now that the new 3-series has been announced.
I’ve heard that the engine internals have been upgraded and that the new 4.4 V8 is now more reliable, but what about the gearbox? It’s the standard ZF automatic? Seems like an achiles heel of the car. Taking into account the amount of torque it should handle even on a stock car. Thanks for your input.
You mean Achilles.

Do you have proof of the internals (rods) being upgraded in the F90 and some pics side by side?

Why would the ZF be an issue? If anything the DCT was an issue in the F10 M5 as it needed upgrading when running moderately more boost....
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 12:38 AM   #16
MuffinFlavored
Second Lieutenant
79
Rep
260
Posts

Drives: 2014 F10 M5 MT
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: N/A

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Do our cars have adaptable tcu's? If so the test drive car was on a fresh reset and if you even drive your car mellow just a bit, it will adapt to your style. Just typing out loud and trying to see if there is a reason to your statement.
What does TCU stand for and how do you do a fresh reset?
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 07:19 AM   #17
onfireX5
Brigadier General
3617
Rep
4,532
Posts

Drives: F90M5,F85X5M
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Va

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinFlavored View Post
What does TCU stand for and how do you do a fresh reset?
TCU is a German Acronym. Think “transfer case “.
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 10:58 AM   #18
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinFlavored View Post
What does TCU stand for and how do you do a fresh reset?
Transmission Control Unit... basically the ecu for the Transmission.

No idea how to fresh reset it.
__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 11:22 AM   #19
onfireX5
Brigadier General
3617
Rep
4,532
Posts

Drives: F90M5,F85X5M
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Va

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Transmission Control Unit... basically the ecu for the Transmission.

No idea how to fresh reset it.
VTG confusion on my part.....
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 11:54 AM   #20
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18966
Rep
10,095
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
VTG confusion on my part.....
Variable Turbine Geometry?

__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 12:38 PM   #21
onfireX5
Brigadier General
3617
Rep
4,532
Posts

Drives: F90M5,F85X5M
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Va

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Variable Turbine Geometry?

It's the crazy German Acronym for transfer case...
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2018, 04:13 PM   #22
tdlondon
New Member
United_States
3
Rep
25
Posts

Drives: 2019 X7 and 2020 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1985 BMW M635csi  [0.00]
2018 BMW M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOR View Post
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I guess i’ll need to test drive it somehow to get a feeling, but not easy to find a dealer that gives out these cars for test drive. The perfect transmission for me is still a manual and it is the best choice for a weekend fun car which an M car should be. But if it’s a daily and in modern traffic reality we have to make compromise, so I guess on this M5 the compromise is even more towards the comfort, rather than a hard shifting race car as E60 M5 used to be. The best automatic I have driven was a 911 GT3 with a PDK, but it does not have 4 doors and seats with massage of course. 😆
Just saying that this F90 is a monster of acceleration. DCT or not, it's fast as heck! Even if DCT would be a tad quicker, it would probably not be more than a dozen millionths of a second.

Also, the more crazy powerful cars like the Koenigsegg now come with torque converters, as no clutch system is able to handle 1000 lbft of torque. So one dares to say that the old TC is the future of automatic sport shifting.
__________________
2018 BMW M5 Rhodonite Silver
1985 BMW M635csi Diamond Black
1994 Porsche 968 Amazon Green
1991 Acura NSX Red
1988 BMW M5 E28 (retired)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 PM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST