[mirob]

This is just a teaser. We probably won't get the full shootout since MT effectively stepped away from YT content, but this is still pretty bad ass.

Enjoy!

https://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-...car-contender/

"This is a sedan worthy of every superlative. Objectively, it ricocheted around our figure-eight course quicker than any sedan we've tested. It stops shorter than any sedan we've tested. And its quarter-mile stats are the best of any combustion-powered sedan we've tested. Credit for these achievements is shared by its 600-hp engine and sophisticated AWD system. Two rear-drive BDC sedans lapped Laguna quicker—the lighter Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio on R-compound tires (by just 0.16 second) and the lighter and more powerful Caddy CTS-V (by 1.29 seconds). Neither is a pussycat like this M5.

The M5 feels huge until you really start working it hard. "In spite of its prodigious size, this car is quite happy on the racetrack," Randy Pobst said. "I forgot it was all-wheel drive! That's a well-balanced modern all-wheel-drive system." Quipped Ed Loh: "It initially feels heavy, but then you look down and see speeds comparable to those in the mid-engine British and Italian ballerinas." Angus MacKenzie added that the M5 is "quiet and refined" and "feels less of a hooligan car than the AMG E 63 S. And more capable." And continuing the AMG comparison, Jethro Bovingdon found it "more introverted than an AMG but somehow more sinister and a whole lot cooler."

The BMW was one of the few cars that seemed to display little or no bad chassis behavior over the alternately sharp hits and swoopy undulations of Route 198. It feels like a precision tool engineered for this sort of driving. After predicting bank-vault numbness, Jonny Lieberman uttered the rarest of passages: "I love being proved wrong."

One piece of constructive criticism: pare back the adjustability. Drivers don't need the distraction of selecting between multiple operating modes on umpteen different systems. Pobst also noted that after about two laps, the brakes, tires, and even the engine started to get hot enough for performance to diminish a bit. Now you know why BMW built the harder-edged M5 Competition."

[onfireX5]

I’ve watched all 12 videos. Jeff loved the M5 even though it’s in a group that it should not be in. (McLaren 720s, ZR1,Huracan, etc). The M5 did post a quicker time at Laguna Seca than the Audi TTRS and Porsche Cayman.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

I’ve watched all 12 videos. Jeff loved the M5 even though it’s in a group that it should not be in. (McLaren 720s, ZR1,Huracan, etc). The M5 did post a quicker time at Laguna Seca than the Audi TTRS and Porsche Cayman.

This is the part that surprised me...

"Two rear-drive BDC sedans lapped Laguna quicker—the lighter Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio on R-compound tires (by just 0.16 second) and the lighter and more powerful Caddy CTS-V (by 1.29 seconds)."

[onfireX5]

M5 1:39.81
TTRS 1:39.95

Same day. Hard to compare different days due to track heat, etc.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

M5 1:39.81
TTRS 1:39.95

Same day. Hard to compare different days due to track heat, etc.

Correct - plus the CTS-V has Michelin PSCup2's - which is a massive difference.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

I've watched all 12 videos. Jeff loved the M5 even though it's in a group that it should not be in. (McLaren 720s, ZR1,Huracan, etc). The M5 did post a quicker time at Laguna Seca than the Audi TTRS and Porsche Cayman.

It also lost by almost 2 seconds to the Mustang performance pack with 200 hp less at VIR for the Lightning Lap .....

[onfireX5]

Michelin PSCup2's on the Mustang also. Race tires. Knew some folks that had them on their ZO6. Took them off after one rain...lol

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Michelin PSCup2's on the Mustang also. Race tires. Knew some folks that had them on their ZO6. Took them off after one rain...lol

I have a 350R that I daily with Sport cup 2's they are actually good in the wet .... . They are a DOT-r not a " race tire " on a lap like this they would be worth a couple of seconds that's it . They are are no where near as fast as Trofeo R's , or the new p zero corsa tires . No excuse losing to a mustang Gt period .

[onfireX5]

We must be talking about different tires. I've not owned but have seen this tire attempted to be driven "reasonably" fast in the wet......not good. Now I've driven pure slicks in the wet. Horrible. Driven Drag Radials..horrible... Anything can be.....but it's not close to a real tire designed for wet conditions with siping, tread depth, etc,etc, etc. Can't defy the laws of physics...

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I have a 350R that I daily with Sport cup 2's they are actually good in the wet .... . They are a DOT-r not a " race tire " on a lap like this they would be worth a couple of seconds that's it . They are are no where near as fast as Trofeo R's , or the new p zero corsa tires . No excuse losing to a mustang Gt period .

2:53.8 vs 2.55.2 for the M5 . 1.4 second loss, nothing wrong with that at VIR. Now a drag race.....

[onfireX5]

Keep in mind, all Cup2's are not created equal. The ZO7 Vette cup 2 tire is unique to the ZO7 spec...cold have less everything compared to your tire...your tire could be better in the wet if it has more siping and tread depth...don't take my word for it....go to the corvette forum and you'll find new cup 2's take offs posted from time to time....

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I have a 350R that I daily with Sport cup 2's they are actually good in the wet .... . They are a DOT-r not a " race tire " on a lap like this they would be worth a couple of seconds that's it . They are are no where near as fast as Trofeo R's , or the new p zero corsa tires . No excuse losing to a mustang Gt period .

Also 1.39 slower at Laguna Seca

[Phatcat]

What you guys think of this car?

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

What you guys think of this car?

Nice stance !

[onfireX5]

Put Cup 2’s on the M5 and it would be an interesting comparison. Major FAIL on the Jag for the monster wing and on the M5 for no active aero. Over $100,000 base price should have active aero on both cars. Jag is a looker without the WING.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I have a 350R that I daily with Sport cup 2's they are actually good in the wet .... . They are a DOT-r not a " race tire " on a lap like this they would be worth a couple of seconds that's it . They are are no where near as fast as Trofeo R's , or the new p zero corsa tires . No excuse losing to a mustang Gt period .

Well...I also must concur with Onfire...first - PS2's can be different for each car. The ones I am used to are definitely terrible in the wet. I would also state they make a massive difference and that Trofeo R's have not gotten very good reviews. The M5 is 16+ feet and 4300 lbs. It's a really big car in every way. Road course on a tight track - that extra weight is a major issue and with tires to keep it grounded - your lap times will be crap. The Pzero's on my car are horrid - but they still ran a time equal to a Camaro SS 1LE. So not too bad.

And as Onfire stated - in a straight line - there is no comparison. to almost anything out there.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Well...I also must concur with Onfire...first - PS2's can be different for each car. The ones I am used to are definitely terrible in the wet. I would also state they make a massive difference and that Trofeo R's have not gotten very good reviews. The M5 is 16+ feet and 4300 lbs. It's a really big car in every way. Road course on a tight track - that extra weight is a major issue and with tires to keep it grounded - your lap times will be crap. The Pzero's on my car are horrid - but they still ran a time equal to a Camaro SS 1LE. So not too bad.

And as Onfire stated - in a straight line - there is no comparison. to almost anything out there.

A regular p zero and a Trofeo R or Corsa are not even close to the same thing lol . On my Z4M the old Trofeo R mind you was 2 seconds a lap faster than a sport cup 2 on a 1:20 lap .... the new P zero corsa and Trofeo R blow away the standard sport cup 2 . Now the Sport cup 2 R that comes on the Gt 2 RS is a different animal , Michelin literally used their racing compound almost unchanged in a street tire mold ..... that's the fastest DOT-R tire available currently . Unless you have driven these tires on track on the same car please sit down now . And yes a sport cup 2 is a very good wet track tire . What it doesn't handle well is cold below 50 degrees it drops off badly. It also does not handle standing water well . A wet track on a warm day with no standing water it's a great " drive it to the track " option . And yes the z06 rear SC2 has suck a large slick portion it is probably bad in the wet with 650 lb feet , but every SC2 is not like that one .
And when did M turn in to 2000 AMG ??? Can't out handle a mustang but can beat it in a straight line is not something to be proud of for a 130k German car.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

A regular p zero and a Trofeo R or Corsa are not even close to the same thing lol . On my Z4M the old Trofeo R mind you was 2 seconds a lap faster than a sport cup 2 on a 1:20 lap .... the new P zero corsa and Trofeo R blow away the standard sport cup 2 . Now the Sport cup 2 R that comes on the Gt 2 RS is a different animal , Michelin literally used their racing compound almost unchanged in a street tire mold ..... that's the fastest DOT-R tire available currently . Unless you have driven these tires on track on the same car please sit down now . And yes a sport cup 2 is a very good wet track tire . What it doesn't handle well is cold below 50 degrees it drops off badly. It also does not handle standing water well . A wet track on a warm day with no standing water it's a great " drive it to the track " option . And yes the z06 rear SC2 has suck a large slick portion it is probably bad in the wet with 650 lb feet , but every SC2 is not like that one .
And when did M turn in to 2000 AMG ??? Can't out handle a mustang but can beat it in a straight line is not something to be proud of for a 130k German car.

I look at it totally different than you do. Kudos to the engineers at Ford to produce a Track Package that works well !
Nothing to be ashamed of in this list :

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

A regular p zero and a Trofeo R or Corsa are not even close to the same thing lol . On my Z4M the old Trofeo R mind you was 2 seconds a lap faster than a sport cup 2 on a 1:20 lap .... the new P zero corsa and Trofeo R blow away the standard sport cup 2 . Now the Sport cup 2 R that comes on the Gt 2 RS is a different animal , Michelin literally used their racing compound almost unchanged in a street tire mold ..... that's the fastest DOT-R tire available currently . Unless you have driven these tires on track on the same car please sit down now . And yes a sport cup 2 is a very good wet track tire . What it doesn't handle well is cold below 50 degrees it drops off badly. It also does not handle standing water well . A wet track on a warm day with no standing water it's a great " drive it to the track " option . And yes the z06 rear SC2 has suck a large slick portion it is probably bad in the wet with 650 lb feet , but every SC2 is not like that one .
And when did M turn in to 2000 AMG ??? Can't out handle a mustang but can beat it in a straight line is not something to be proud of for a 130k German car.

First - cool your jets Mr. Experience. I'm sure you are a champion road course racer - but telling me to sit down thinking I don't have the experience with my 30+ years of racing is silly. First - I own a C7Z06 so I am extremely familiar with Cup 2's - for that car. I have also driven Trofeo R's on multiple cars. They are an excellent tire to be sure and probably are one of the best if not the best tires out - but with both tires under proper heat - at least on my C7Z - I do not agree with you on the ET difference you stated. You are correct that PS2's stink in wet weather - as I stated above - specifically for the fact as you stated - most of the tire has no tread. And this is an M5. Not an M2. It's 16+ feet long - 4300+ lbs - as I stated above - it isn't a track car. It is a luxury GT car - with four doors that is extremely competent for the class of car that it is. Light M cars along with AMG's and RS cars have disappeared many moons ago.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

First - cool your jets Mr. Experience. I'm sure you are a champion road course racer - but telling me to sit down thinking I don't have the experience with my 30+ years of racing is silly. First - I own a C7Z06 so I am extremely familiar with Cup 2's - for that car. I have also driven Trofeo R's on multiple cars. They are an excellent tire to be sure and probably are one of the best if not the best tires out - but with both tires under proper heat - at least on my C7Z - I do agree with you on the ET difference you stated. You are correct that PS2's stink in wet weather - as I stated above - specifically for the fact as you stated - most of the tire has no tread. And this is an M5. Not an M2. It's 16+ feet long - 4300+ lbs - as I stated above - it isn't a track car. It is a luxury GT car - with four doors that is extremely competent for the class of car that it is. Light M cars along with AMG's and R cars have disappeared many moons ago.

+1

[onfireX5]

More....

[mirob]

Originally Posted by vtknight

And as Onfire stated - in a straight line - there is no comparison. to almost anything out there.

This damn car is a rocket ship...

MT - World's Greatest Drag Race 8 is here:
https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show....php?t=1537523