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      09-14-2018, 06:20 PM   #1
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Very Mad, Is This Dealer Marking Up My Lease?

Very Mad, Is this Dealer marking up the lease and not disclosing it to me?

I am doing European Delivery in a couple of weeks and a few members on this board are saying these numbers do not add up from the dealer.

I have an 820 credit score and I am not trading in another car. Here are the lease numbers:

2019 M5 COMP. Selling price: $116,395 $7000 total down 36mo lease with 10k miles per/year $1888 plus tax $2068 include tax. (residual 51% at 10k miles per yr. money factor 0.00216 because of the ED). The options are Executive Package, Bowers, M Driver's Package.

Need assistance ASAP. Thx.

Last edited by Greer; 09-14-2018 at 06:31 PM..
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      09-14-2018, 06:30 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Very Mad, Is this Dealer marking up the lease and not disclosing it to me?

I am doing Europan Delivery in a couple of weeks and a few members on this board are saying these numbers do not add up from the dealer.

I have an 820 credit score and I am not trading in another car. Here are the lease numbers:

2019 M5 COMP. Selling price: $116,395 $7000 total down 36mo lease with 10k miles per/year $1888 plus tax $2068 include tax. (residual 51% at 10k miles per yr. money factor 0.00216 because of the ED)

Need assistance ASAP. Thx.
I am not sure it depends on what fees they are taking in at lease inception.
Here is what a quick Lease calc came up with. I guess that 51% residual and no discount on the car really jacks up the payments:

MSRP116395
Base Cap Cost116395
Cost Added to Lease1390
Cap Cost Reductions4000
Net Cap Cost113785
Residual Amount59361
Money Factor0.00216
Lease Term36
Lease Payment$1,885.77
Monthly Sales Tax179.15 ( 9.5%)
Total Monthly Payment$2,064.92
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      09-14-2018, 09:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickburn7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Very Mad, Is this Dealer marking up the lease and not disclosing it to me?

I am doing Europan Delivery in a couple of weeks and a few members on this board are saying these numbers do not add up from the dealer.

I have an 820 credit score and I am not trading in another car. Here are the lease numbers:

2019 M5 COMP. Selling price: $116,395 $7000 total down 36mo lease with 10k miles per/year $1888 plus tax $2068 include tax. (residual 51% at 10k miles per yr. money factor 0.00216 because of the ED)

Need assistance ASAP. Thx.
I am not sure it depends on what fees they are taking in at lease inception.
Here is what a quick Lease calc came up with. I guess that 51% residual and no discount on the car really jacks up the payments:

MSRP116395
Base Cap Cost116395
Cost Added to Lease1390
Cap Cost Reductions4000
Net Cap Cost113785
Residual Amount59361
Money Factor0.00216
Lease Term36
Lease Payment$1,885.77
Monthly Sales Tax179.15 ( 9.5%)
Total Monthly Payment$2,064.92
ED should have at least 5% discount over US MSRP.
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      09-15-2018, 12:22 AM   #4
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The base money factor is .00166 and when you add for European Delivery it should go .00196. My dealer is adding on top of that. Anyone else notice something wrong with this deal? Thanks, Gene
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      09-15-2018, 12:43 AM   #5
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I blame it on the horrible residuals. Pretty crazy...
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      09-15-2018, 06:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stav View Post
ED should have at least 5% discount over US MSRP.
Yes 5% is offered through BMW's European Delivery Program. My last deal on a 2015 M4 European Delivery, I negotiated separately to get below ED MSRP of course bringing eventual cap cost down further.
I realize this is a different vehicle and three years on, but for clarity the dealership is not giving the 5% and the dealership's margin should be up for negotiation if they want to compete
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      09-15-2018, 07:21 AM   #7
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Here's what I see. Based on US pricing, your M5 has an MSRP of $121,895 ($110,000 for the base Competition Edition plus exec, B&W, M5 drivers and dest & gas guzzler costs). So at a selling price of $116,895 the dealership is offering you a $5,000 discount to MSRP at a time when most dealers are selling Competition Editions at MSRP - so that in and of itself is not a bad deal.

However, when I put your numbers into my excel lease calculator the numbers don't quite add up. To get to the payment you quoted of $2,068 I have to use $1,280 of the $7,000 down as a cap cost reduction. You also need to cover first month, acquisition fee ($925) and other fees and taxes at closing (for me in NJ these total $1,227). All that totals about $5,500, so I don't know where the last $1,500 of you're money down is going. Did you agree to anything else like wheel and tire insurance or paint protection coating?

Another however. As Stav noted, ED invoice is lower than US invoice for the dealer. I don't know the numbers for the F90, but when I did ED on my first F10 the ED invoice was 7% below US invoice for the base car (no difference on added options). I would expect it to be the same now because the difference is the German export tax on cars shipped out of Germany (which only applies to cars still owned by the manufacturer). So what does all this add up to? Based on US invoice the dealer would be making $3,000 over invoice, but using an estimated ED invoice they're making roughly $7,000 more over invoice or about $10,000 in total. This profit is about $2,000 more than the difference between US MSRP and US invoice, so it's the net effect of them charging you $2,000 over MSRP for a US delivery car.

Some of my numbers are estimates so I wouldn't accept any of them as 100% fact, but it seems you need to have a conversation with your dealer. At a minimum, I think they should drop the price another $2,000 to match the profit they would otherwise make selling you a US delivery car at MSRP. And remeber, where's the last $1,500 of the money down going? I hope this is helpful.
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      09-15-2018, 09:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGS View Post
Here's what I see. Based on US pricing, your M5 has an MSRP of $121,895 ($110,000 for the base Competition Edition plus exec, B&W, M5 drivers and dest & gas guzzler costs). So at a selling price of $116,895 the dealership is offering you a $5,000 discount to MSRP at a time when most dealers are selling Competition Editions at MSRP - so that in and of itself is not a bad deal.

However, when I put your numbers into my excel lease calculator the numbers don't quite add up. To get to the payment you quoted of $2,068 I have to use $1,280 of the $7,000 down as a cap cost reduction. You also need to cover first month, acquisition fee ($925) and other fees and taxes at closing (for me in NJ these total $1,227). All that totals about $5,500, so I don't know where the last $1,500 of you're money down is going. Did you agree to anything else like wheel and tire insurance or paint protection coating?

Another however. As Stav noted, ED invoice is lower than US invoice for the dealer. I don't know the numbers for the F90, but when I did ED on my first F10 the ED invoice was 7% below US invoice for the base car (no difference on added options). I would expect it to be the same now because the difference is the German export tax on cars shipped out of Germany (which only applies to cars still owned by the manufacturer). So what does all this add up to? Based on US invoice the dealer would be making $3,000 over invoice, but using an estimated ED invoice they're making roughly $7,000 more over invoice or about $10,000 in total. This profit is about $2,000 more than the difference between US MSRP and US invoice, so it's the net effect of them charging you $2,000 over MSRP for a US delivery car.

Some of my numbers are estimates so I wouldn't accept any of them as 100% fact, but it seems you need to have a conversation with your dealer. At a minimum, I think they should drop the price another $2,000 to match the profit they would otherwise make selling you a US delivery car at MSRP. And remeber, where's the last $1,500 of the money down going? I hope this is helpful.
Yes - ED MSRP is currently US MSRP of base price of the car multiplied by 0.95 (5% off). All options are still at US MSRP to be added to ED MSRP to calculate final MSRP. ED invoice will be (approximately) ED MSRP of base car multiplied by 0.93 (7% off) plus a training fee of $475 that is usually charged plus US MSRP of options multiplied by 0.92 (8% off). For leases there is the 0.0003 rate added but second payment waived. Most likely I doubt any dealer will do less than ED MSRP for the M5 but at least it shouldn't be more.

I have done 5 EDs up to now, including a Mercedes one. At this point Mercedes has a better program at least as far as pricing goes.
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      09-15-2018, 11:01 AM   #9
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Yes, it is European Delivery MSRP which is: $116,395. I did not ask for wheel protection or any other protection fees to be included. The numbers still seem high, what am I missing?
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      09-15-2018, 12:17 PM   #10
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@greer Here's what I think your deal should look like, maybe dealer is adding protection plans, maintenance upgrades etc
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File Type: pdf 2019 M5 comp lease calculator.pdf (86.6 KB, 142 views)
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      09-15-2018, 12:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmfiv3 View Post
@greer Here's what I think your deal should look like, maybe dealer is adding protection plans, maintenance upgrades etc
Hi Emmfiv,

Can you please send me a new spreadsheet with the money factor of .00196 and me putting down $7,000 at lease inception. My email is: Genebush@gmail.com

Thanks, Gene
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      09-15-2018, 01:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Very Mad, Is this Dealer marking up the lease and not disclosing it to me?

I am doing European Delivery in a couple of weeks and a few members on this board are saying these numbers do not add up from the dealer.

I have an 820 credit score and I am not trading in another car. Here are the lease numbers:

2019 M5 COMP. Selling price: $116,395 $7000 total down 36mo lease with 10k miles per/year $1888 plus tax $2068 include tax. (residual 51% at 10k miles per yr. money factor 0.00216 because of the ED). The options are Executive Package, Bowers, M Driver's Package.

Need assistance ASAP. Thx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Yes, it is European Delivery MSRP which is: $116,395. I did not ask for wheel protection or any other protection fees to be included. The numbers still seem high, what am I missing?
I reran my calculations using $116,395 as both the MSRP and the selling price. Using a residual value of 51%, the money factor of 0.00216, 8% sales tax and $7,000 down, I'm estimating a payment of $2,061. Pretty close to the $2,068 the dealer quoted you. Since the MSRP is lower and therefoe the residual value is lower, you need to use more of the money down as a cap cost reduction. The phantom $1,500 I referenced/inquired about previously is now accounted for as additional cap cost reduction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Hi Emmfiv,

Can you please send me a new spreadsheet with the money factor of .00196 and me putting down $7,000 at lease inception. My email is: Genebush@gmail.com

Thanks, Gene
If I rerun my calculation changing only the MF to .00196 the payment drops to $2,025.
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      09-15-2018, 02:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Very Mad, Is this Dealer marking up the lease and not disclosing it to me?

I am doing European Delivery in a couple of weeks and a few members on this board are saying these numbers do not add up from the dealer.

I have an 820 credit score and I am not trading in another car. Here are the lease numbers:

2019 M5 COMP. Selling price: $116,395 $7000 total down 36mo lease with 10k miles per/year $1888 plus tax $2068 include tax. (residual 51% at 10k miles per yr. money factor 0.00216 because of the ED). The options are Executive Package, Bowers, M Driver's Package.

Need assistance ASAP. Thx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Yes, it is European Delivery MSRP which is: $116,395. I did not ask for wheel protection or any other protection fees to be included. The numbers still seem high, what am I missing?
I reran my calculations using $116,395 as both the MSRP and the selling price. Using a residual value of 51%, the money factor of 0.00216, 8% sales tax and $7,000 down, I'm estimating a payment of $2,061. Pretty close to the $2,068 the dealer quoted you. Since the MSRP is lower and therefoe the residual value is lower, you need to use more of the money down as a cap cost reduction. The phantom $1,500 I referenced/inquired about previously is now accounted for as additional cap cost reduction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
Hi Emmfiv,

Can you please send me a new spreadsheet with the money factor of .00196 and me putting down $7,000 at lease inception. My email is: Genebush@gmail.com

Thanks, Gene
If I rerun my calculation changing only the MF to .00196 the payment drops to $2,025.
Lease should be calculated based on US MSRP - ED MSRP should be the selling price. ED MSRP is basically a discounted selling price but all leases go with US MSRP to calculate residual etc.
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      09-15-2018, 10:51 PM   #14
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I mean it's a straight forward lease with 0 discounts and money down. I would say this is a deal by any stretch of the imagination. He is selling you a car and profiting off it as they should.
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      10-16-2018, 03:28 AM   #15
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Mannnn, BMW is raping us all.
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      10-17-2018, 07:37 PM   #16
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walk away

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Mannnn, BMW is raping us all.
I would walk away. go to another dealership. here in northern California dealers have marked up 2018 and 2019 M5 and M5c by $10k. called it "market adjustment "

Rob
ps good luck
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      10-18-2018, 01:36 PM   #17
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I would walk away. go to another dealership. here in northern California dealers have marked up 2018 and 2019 M5 and M5c by $10k. called it "market adjustment "

Rob
ps good luck
Thanks, it all worked out in the end.
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