[330XDave]

Sorry for those expecting a video!

For some strange reason I've been giving this some thought lately.

So a standard 335d (obviously xDrive as standard) vs an M3. Think a puddle wet track. Obviously the M3 has considerably more power and much sharper handling but what use is the power if it can't get it all down?

It would be interesting to see. My guess would be the M3 would still win, but throw some of the fabled ACS springs on the 335d and get it remapped and I'm thinking the results would be reversed.

Thoughts?

[takumichinoku]

You may as well just call it in the snow.

I have a M3 and I would be lucky to be able to drive in a straight line never mind get around the track in the pissing rain. Just too savage I'm afraid. So if it's going to make people with 335d's feel awesome then you guys win!

Much rather have the M3 though and just swerve around the track struggling for traction. Would be more fun

End of discussion. Next thread!


Honest M3 owner.

[330XDave]

Lol fair enough. Got say I had an E92 335i and that was a bloody handful in the wet.

I do think there'd be times where the M3 would be stronger, I mean it would be sharper on the turn in, just wouldn't be able to get the power down as well coming out of the corner.

[Tengocity]

I've driven both on track, and in the wet.

My 335d was very modified and I'm pretty sure on a very wet track then it's traction advantage would make it a little faster in my hands. Not sure about a standard 335d though.

But the M3 on a wet brands hatch track surprised me. The front end grip on an M3/4 is exceptional, and as long as you were smooth with your throttle inputs then it still went pretty well I must say.

So it depends on who is driving and whether the cars are standard.

[330XDave]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I've driven both on track, and in the wet.

My 335d was very modified and I'm pretty sure on a very wet track then it's traction advantage would make it a little faster in my hands. Not sure about a standard 335d though.

But the M3 on a wet brands hatch track surprised me. The front end grip on an M3/4 is exceptional, and as long as you were smooth with your throttle inputs then it still went pretty well I must say.

So it depends on who is driving and whether the cars are standard.

It would make for an interesting experiment don't you feel? Almost sDrive v xDrive.

I understand owning an M3/M4 is much more than pure speed and lap times but I'm surprised such a comparison has not been done.

[NISFAN]

Nope, M car would hammer a 335d on a wet track too (assuming driver is half awake).

A nose heavy pig is a nose heavy pig in the wet too.

Tracks rarely have corners slower than around 25mph, so there are few occasions where AWD is an overwhelming advantage.

Maybe try ice rallyx. The AWD might finally win something there.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by 330XDave

It would make for an interesting experiment don't you feel? Almost sDrive v xDrive.

I understand owning an M3/M4 is much more than pure speed and lap times but I'm surprised such a comparison has not been done.

Well, I've got a proper timed lap of Bedford in the 335d, with same circuit that Evo use for comparative purposes. Next time I'll take the M4 and compare directly, though the 335d lap was in the dry.

I still reckon a standard 335d in the wet will be slower round a track than the M4.

[330XDave]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Well, I've got a proper timed lap of Bedford in the 335d, with same circuit that Evo use for comparative purposes. Next time I'll take the M4 and compare directly, though the 335d lap was in the dry.

I still reckon a standard 335d in the wet will be slower round a track than the M4.

I agree, your modified 335d would be a different story I think.

[lethbridge]

My guess would be that the 335d would lose by a considerable margin. If we assume both are on the same decent wet weather tyres that is (or both on their factory spec tyres). The M3 has such a power (at the wheels) and weight advantage that any 'getting the power down limitations' would soon be outweighed. Plus due to the far better dynamics of the M3 your entry speeds would surely be higher where the 35d would be prone to understeer. I'm thinking in terms of how mine feels vs the tuned 335ds I've had (and I'm running in so I'm just talking about up to 5000 rpm in a 35d vs M3 CP). I know older/standard M3s found it hard to put the power down in the dry let alone wet but the latest M3 CPs just don't seem to have that issue. Put both cars on the same but wrong tyres (like Cups) and it would be pure comedy of course and may well level the cars if it was a particularly twisty track.

[RickLS7]

Doesn't matter what make of car, a forums diesel owners are convinced they are the fastest.

[330XDave]

Originally Posted by RickLS7

Doesn't matter what make of car, a forums diesel owners are convinced they are the fastest.

Don't think anyone is claiming that here to be honest.

[Kermit]

I've got a 335d and taken it to Thruxton in the pouring rain. It was brilliant. I've also driven an M3, M4 and M6 in a similarly wet Goodwood BMW track day. The M3 and 4 tried to kill me at the beginning of the start finish straight, but once its straightened up I don't think the 335d would be able to keep up, even in the wet. As already said above the grip is incredible and the 335d is very nose-heavy by comparison (but I still love mine!)

[Cootie]

Depends how wet and on what track. At
Knockhill one of my mate’s Scirocco R was substantially faster than another mate’s Speciale. The mate who had the Speciale also has a very fettled M3 with ACS RS and c.530bhp and he said on a wet Anglesey recently he was quite a bit slower than a standard Golf R, however when it dried out he was in the top half dozen cars on track and much quicker than the R. So, in answer to your original question I would expect a 335d, as long as not on standard suspension to be quicker than a stock M3/M4 on a wet (rather than damp) track.

[sahajesh]

This thread is a bit like "my dick is bigger than yours" - the only way to prove it is with evidence.....of lap times

You're up, Tengocity, give us an M4 time please.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Cootie

Depends how wet and on what track. At
Knockhill one of my mate’s Scirocco R was substantially faster than another mate’s Speciale. The mate who had the Speciale also has a very fettled M3 with ACS RS and c.530bhp and he said on a wet Anglesey recently he was quite a bit slower than a standard Golf R, however when it dried out he was in the top half dozen cars on track and much quicker than the R. So, in answer to your original question I would expect a 335d, as long as not on standard suspension to be quicker than a stock M3/M4 on a wet (rather than damp) track.

A Speciale on Cup2 or Trofeo R tyres is never going to be quick in the wet, Especially as any sane owner will be tiptoeing round so as not to ruin a very nice car! Also, Knockhill isn't exactly a power circuit, so take those cars to Silverstone and there's no way those cars would keep up.

So as with all of these questions.... it depends!

The track, how wet, is it wet and cold, or summer rain, is the driver worried about crashing, is the driver any good.

Those AWD cars will certainly be easier to get a decent time out of.

It must be said though, in the wet it also depends on whether it's a 2014 M3 or a more recent one as they're very different in the wet.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

This thread is a bit like "my dick is bigger than yours" - the only way to prove it is with evidence.....of lap times

You're up, Tengocity, give us an M4 time please.

As soon as the next How Fast session is on I'll be there! Have taken the 335d and the Boxster previously, so would be great to try the M4 next.

[Cootie]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

A Speciale on Cup2 or Trofeo R tyres is never going to be quick in the wet, Especially as any sane owner will be tiptoeing round so as not to ruin a very nice car! Also, Knockhill isn't exactly a power circuit, so take those cars to Silverstone and there's no way those cars would keep up.
.

There was no tiptoeing believe me Agree re Silverstone being a very different kettle of fish!

[Wills2]

I just had a look at the Nurburgring laps times to the see the difference there, trouble is no one can be arsed timing a 335d round the track....

[skipraider]

Ok not the same as they're both rwd, but here they try and get a 330d to go as fast as an m3 round a track.

I haven't actually watched the vid, just skimmed it as it popped up

https://youtu.be/JzeNFJ8ThqY

[J4CKO]

A little late joining this chat, but...
I have a 335d touring with ACS springs and MPS tyres.
On a wet Snetterton track day I kept up with and passed e9x M3's. Xdrive made a huge difference out of the corners.
Used to own an e93 M3 and they can be a little tail happy in the dry!
Sadly I hit a pot hole in Belgium on my way to the ring last year, so i didn't get to lap it due to everywhere being closed and the tyre having a hole in it! Maybe this year!

[embay34]

Surely the sheer amount of torque from the 335d would simple cancel out XD advantage it has over the RWD M3/M4?

[330XDave]

Originally Posted by embay34

Surely the sheer amount of torque from the 335d would simple cancel out XD advantage it has over the RWD M3/M4?

In what way? My remapped 330d xDrive with 650nm torque (standard 335d has 630nm) still doesn't have a problem problem putting power down in the wet, although I have managed to get all 4 wheels to spin a couple of times!