[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by lemetier

XCN-8HP75XHIS - 1102 024 092

Is it the standard 750nm limit or has it been increased for the M5 ?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Is it the standard 750nm limit or has it been increased for the M5 ?

It varies depending on RPM, gear, and during shift. Absolute tolerance is:

Gears 1-6: 7200rpm limit, 760nm 500-2999rpm, 810nm 3000-5800rpm, 760nm 5801 to shift point reduction - 700nm max during clutch transitions.

Gear 7: 6000rpm/760nm max

Gear 8: 4600rpm/810nm max.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by lemetier

It varies depending on RPM, gear, and during shift. Absolute tolerance is:

Gears 1-6: 7200rpm limit, 760nm 500-2999rpm, 810nm 3000-5800rpm, 760nm 5801 to shift point reduction - 700nm max during clutch transitions.

Gear 7: 6000rpm/760nm max

Gear 8: 4600rpm/810nm max.

Very interesting ! Thanks !

[Demon Barber]

Originally Posted by lemetier

XCN-8HP75XHIS - 1102 024 092

Thanks!

[Demon Barber]

Seems that any modding that raised torque significantly would likely push it out of its comfort zone.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Demon Barber

Seems that any modding that raised torque significantly would likely push it out of its comfort zone.

Keep in mind those limits are for 150,000km service life.

The output gear and VTG unit are designed for 1300nm but requires both the larger 8P95X middle module with a 90kw PHEV nose to even come close to that.

[josec70]

Great information. Thx for sharing.

[windtendo]

So looking at the lowest max torque tolerance in nm, 516 lb-ft is basically the limit...? What am I missing if the advertised stock torque is 553 lb-ft?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by windtendo

So looking at the lowest max torque tolerance in nm, 516 lb-ft is basically the limit...? What am I missing if the advertised stock torque is 553 lb-ft?

No the 700nm is the maximum design limit during a shift (clutch element transition). The F90 performs fully locked clutch to clutch overlapping shifts with no interruption in transmitting torque (the amount of torque is reduced momentarily just like DCT/AMT but doesn't drop as much nor does it go to zero briefly like DCT/AMT).

[windtendo]

Originally Posted by lemetier

No the 700nm is the maximum design limit during a shift (clutch element transition). The F90 performs fully locked clutch to clutch overlapping shifts with no interruption in transmitting torque (the amount of torque is reduced momentarily just like DCT/AMT but doesn't drop as much nor does it go to zero briefly like DCT/AMT).

Okay, so really the max the transmission can take is 760 N-m or 560 ft-lb...? Seems like not much room for tuning (safely).

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by windtendo

Okay, so really the max the transmission can take is 760 N-m or 560 ft-lb...? Seems like not much room for tuning (safely).

Well the F10M DCT was rated for 700nm. As I've stated these figures are for basis of 150,000km service life. Can go up to 810nm with a shorter torque plateau (like that of Alpina B5/B7).

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by windtendo

Okay, so really the max the transmission can take is 760 N-m or 560 ft-lb...? Seems like not much room for tuning (safely).

If you look at the curve , you have room at certain rpm points. One thing you would not want to do is command a flatlined psi that carries into the shift. If you did come calcs, you might be fine to run 23-24psi....but I would not flatline that boost curve into the shift. An arc curve would be much safer...

Big Thanks to lemetier for the detailed info !

[windtendo]

This is great info guys, and props to lemetier!

[Marc_Cos]

Have to say that after rolling out of a '15 F10 w/ CP into my just delivered and now broken in F90, the F10 felt:
a)more exciting/engaging
b)sounded better, especially when I cracked gears and it made this great popping sound at around 4 to 5k rpm
c)Had better road feel (F90 wanders a bit for some reason and seems more numb)
d)Banged out gears way better. Absolutely loved the DTC. Big mistake stuffing the new one with a ZF slushbox tranny. F'in hate it, but will live with it.

[windtendo]

Originally Posted by speedy5540

Have to say that after rolling out of a '15 F10 w/ CP into my just delivered and now broken in F90, the F10 felt:
a)more exciting/engaging
b)sounded better, especially when I cracked gears and it made this great popping sound at around 4 to 5k rpm
c)Had better road feel (F90 wanders a bit for some reason and seems more numb)
d)Banged out gears way better. Absolutely loved the DTC. Big mistake stuffing the new one with a ZF slushbox tranny. F'in hate it, but will live with it.

So why not get rid of the F90 and go back to the F10...?

[brad850csi]

I read this post on the first day it was posted and I've been trying to figure out how to express my thoughts on the ZF8 vs dual clutch boxes

I've driven various F-Types, RS6/7, F10/F11 5 series, G30/G31 5 series, G01 X3 M40i, F90 M5, G12 M760Li, F31 340i, a Maserati Granturismo and various others with the ZF8 and they just feel somewhat boring. The F90 M5 or the F20 M140i make it feel somewhat more exciting but it is still just an auto.

I've done 8,000km in my F13 M6 as well as a few drives in other F13s, plenty of M3 E9x with the dual clutch as well the current M2/M3/M4 and a couple of E60 or E63 S85 M5/M6s.

Honestly - I just love the dual clutches and even though the SMG III is flawed in so many ways, if you could give me an SMG III or a ZF8 in the F90 M5 I'd pick the SMG III. Most days I'd be complaining about it and saying it is a complete bucket of shit but those redline changes are just superb and for me it is the automated manual that separates the BMW Ms from the rest of the German cars out there. They just feel equal parts rock star and exciting combined with flair even when driving normally.

I currently don't know what my next car could be but I'm thinking it will be a Ferrari FF, GTC4, F12 or an AMG GT as they are all stupidly powerful front engine GT cars with dual clutches.

It could have been a DBS Superleggera which I love in every other way but it goes back to the ZF8 which just ruins the car for me. I haven't driven one yet and I'm sure it will be better in every measurable way than the Astons I've driven with the automated manuals and the power will probably make up for it but at the end of the day I'll always feel that I've got the same gearbox as a 318i or some other generic shitbox and I just want something exciting and fun.

[SFT33]

I don’t have an F90 and can’t speak to the transmission. However, I do have an F10 and E60. After having not driven the E60 for 3+ months I got it down off the lift and - boy - I forgot what an amazing car this is and part of that is because of SMG. It is an experience to drive the E60 - changing gears at redline with the exhaust wailing is simply pure bliss. F10 is fast, more comfortable and feels of better quality - but the E60 is just amazing. Horrible gas mileage and feels like a ticking time bomb - but an amazing rig.

[Marc_Cos]

Originally Posted by windtendo

So why not get rid of the F90 and go back to the F10...?

It is what it is...I'll see how long I can deal with it..if anything maybe Id roll into a '19 M3 cs perhaps to get the duel clutch back. I know that car handles WAY better than the F10. Dont get me wrong, its not like I hate the car, its just much more different in its feel and character than I would have expected. The new M5 is more "refined" IMO. I would have to drive a '19 with the comp package now that they are out. Maybe that will have a more engaging feel due to its stiffer/lower suspension, different tranny programming, etc. Will see.

[Stealth7]

The A10 in rhe new ZL1 Camaro is Sublime! I cancelled my M5Comp. order and bought that!

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by Stealth7

The A10 in rhe new ZL1 Camaro is Sublime! I cancelled my M5Comp. order and bought that!

Who cross shops a Camaro and an M5?

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Who cross shops a Camaro and an M5?

Stealth does...it would seem.

[EDDYFIG]

The downshifts are ok but the upshifts are perfect.