M3 vs. The Fakers

[sayemthree]

I love this quote from Cand D from the m3 vs. GTR vs P TUrbo, not that I think they are calling the GTR and turbo fakers. its halarious.....

"the M3 allows the driver to use the car as an instrument. Not many cars can play the road - the car world has more fakers than a middle-school band concert."

[White08M3]

ha thats awesome

[icemang17]

Its funny how people get caught up in the numbers game when it comes to cars "performance".... HP-torque-top speed-acceleration times-etc.... but the reality of sports cars is its more about feel than all out performance...since all out performance is rarely used...

For example I have a stock 20 year old Porsche 928...a "grand touring" Porsche in theory... If you look at its performance numbers and compare them to any new Porsche..pretty much all of the new ones are "better".... My old 928 is heavier, with less power, less gears & far worse "numbers"..... BUT when I get out on the track I can easily pass Boxsters, Caymans, Carrera S & occasionally 911 twin turbos.....WHY.... THE DRIVER...not that I'm some great driver...I just have a car thats easy to drive fast...with great "feel"...

[sayemthree]

similiarly I remember tracking my first M-car - it was amazing how it was so easy to place the car exactly where you wanted it at the apex etc.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by icemang17

Its funny how people get caught up in the numbers game when it comes to cars "performance".... HP-torque-top speed-acceleration times-etc.... but the reality of sports cars is its more about feel than all out performance...since all out performance is rarely used...

For example I have a stock 20 year old Porsche 928...a "grand touring" Porsche in theory... If you look at its performance numbers and compare them to any new Porsche..pretty much all of the new ones are "better".... My old 928 is heavier, with less power, less gears & far worse "numbers"..... BUT when I get out on the track I can easily pass Boxsters, Caymans, Carrera S & occasionally 911 twin turbos.....WHY.... THE DRIVER...not that I'm some great driver...I just have a car thats easy to drive fast...with great "feel"...

i doubt that you pass 987, 997, 996 with a 928 ...
928 is a great car, but not as good as you draw this picture...

e.g. the 3.4 boxsterS is winning every competition with the 928 and as far as i can tell it doenst feel "difficult" to drive near the limit ( i m just a amateur, but i drove this car enaugh now to assess that i think).

back to topic *hrhr* :

m3 for heartbreaker

[sayemthree]

he did say THE DRIVER.

[hellrotm]

That is a good quote.

M3 is still the king of the segment by far.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

That is a good quote.

M3 is still the king of the segment by far.

long live the king!!!

[icemang17]

Originally Posted by Hammer

i doubt that you pass 987, 997, 996 with a 928 ...
928 is a great car, but not as good as you draw this picture...

e.g. the 3.4 boxsterS is winning every competition with the 928 and as far as i can tell it doenst feel "difficult" to drive near the limit ( i m just a amateur, but i drove this car enaugh now to assess that i think).

back to topic *hrhr* :

m3 for heartbreaker

The one "upgrade" my 928 has is 18" wheels and tires that came off a 2006 997 235 front and 265 rear....it completely transformed the car....a car the size and weight of a 928 needs bigger tires and they fit quite easily....with minor fender rolling and custom wheels you can run 275 in front and 315 in rear easy....custom race 928's can run 335's all the way around....

I am still learning as a driver, but the 928 is perfectly balanced and does what you want it too without any serious vices....which makes it easy to drive fast....ample power at low or high rpms....stable handling and powerful brakes (12" 4 piston brembos all the way around).... I also was surprised the 1st time I went to a DE and was able to pass all of the far newer P-cars that were there....including a 996 turbo S cab (but that kids wasn't a very good driver)

I have friends with track setup 928's that win thier class in SCCA, PCA, POC on a regular basis...often beating brand new 997 GT3 RSR's...sometimes the custom GT3 twin turbos.... Running 2:16 at Road America, 1:30.8 and Laguna Seca and 1:39 at Infineon.... I have no doubts this 928 could run under 7:30 at the ring too.... Heres some spec of the car

http://www.928intl.com/race/index.htm

But now its 500+whp and 2600lbs in race trim...

[footie]

From memory the 928 had a steering rear axle and it's cornering ability was well ahead of the time. What model of 928 have you, I have tried both the 928S and the GTS, the latter was pretty quick and not that far behind some of the others.

A great Porsche as well as an all-time great in my opinion.

[icemang17]

Originally Posted by footie

From memory the 928 had a steering rear axle and it's cornering ability was well ahead of the time. What model of 928 have you, I have tried both the 928S and the GTS, the latter was pretty quick and not that far behind some of the others.

A great Porsche as well as an all-time great in my opinion.

I have an 1988 928 S4

The key to the 928's balance is the front engine with torque tube and rear transmission....& all 928's have what is known as the Weissach axle..which is a passive rear wheel steering by toeing in the rear axle in cornering to increase stability.... They also have a little bit of anti dive and anti squat build into the suspension too.... good power, big brakes, adjustable coil overs, good weight balance....all equal a car thats easy to drive fast! Its also 5 inches lower than the M3 too & slightly wider too

[footie]

Originally Posted by icemang17

I have an 1988 928 S4

The key to the 928's balance is the front engine with torque tube and rear transmission....& all 928's have what is known as the Weissach axle..which is a passive rear wheel steering by toeing in the rear axle in cornering to increase stability.... They also have a little bit of anti dive and anti squat build into the suspension too.... good power, big brakes, adjustable coil overs, good weight balance....all equal a car thats easy to drive fast! Its also 5 inches lower than the M3 too & slightly wider too

Great car, I personally prefer front engined Porsche to any other though of all the modern ones I perfer either the Boxster or Cayman too the 997.

The toe in is minor but the affect is quite noticeable. As I said it's handling was ahead of the time and sadly so where it's looks, back then not to many people liked it but now with age it's a really good looking car.

P.S.
I can't remember what the weight balance was like, do you happen to know?

[sayemthree]

i really liked the 944 turbo - never owned one but my friend let me track his once - awesome car.

[icemang17]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

i really liked the 944 turbo - never owned one but my friend let me track his once - awesome car.

Similar feel to the 928....but in a "smaller" package.... For its day the 928 was a very large car...not really by todays standards..... but it is fairly wide and low, which helps on the track!

I'm debating if I want to sell it and buy a 5 speed for dedicated track duty....I dunno....

[sayemthree]

back on topic - i think the 944 TUrbo GTS was the real thing and the 928 for the fakers???