[Big Mexican Women]

Hey all, I am looking to order some Dinan camber plates for my F10 535i (RWD) and noticed it says that they allow only up to -0.6 of camber. my front axle camber looks off, close to 0.0 based from what I can tell by eyeballing it so I am looking for other options to increase the negative camber. I saw some sort of KMAC adjustable camber bushings, but someone told me that those are no good. any opinions on these? what other options to I have - M5 control arms maybe, etc?

Thanks!

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

Hey all, I am looking to order some Dinan camber plates for my F10 535i (RWD) and noticed it says that they allow only up to -0.6 of camber. my front axle camber looks off, close to 0.0 based from what I can tell by eyeballing it so I am looking for other options to increase the negative camber. I saw some sort of KMAC adjustable camber bushings, but someone told me that those are no good. any opinions on these? what other options to I have - M5 control arms maybe, etc?

Thanks!

With the Double Wishbone front suspension design of the F10, camber can be changed one of three ways...
1. Get shorter upper control arms - BMW offers these in a -.5 degree configuration. If I recall, they are about $350 apiece. You need two. One for each side of the car.

2. Get replacement lower control arms or clocked bushings. I have not seen this available for the F10, but they may be out there.

3. Get lowering springs. When you lower the car, negative camber will increase.


Be mindful that 0 camber is normal for these cars... BMW went very conservative up front in this regard. In fact, you can have a bit of positive camber in the front and still be in “spec.”


Additionally, don’t expect .5 degrees of additional negative camber to be life changing on this platform. You will see it more than you feel it.

If you want to see the BMW items to adjust the camber, goto realoem.com or any other bmw parts site to see the modified upper control arms. You will find them listed with the front suspension parts.

[Stück]

The factory range is + 0.50 to - 0.50, not much negative camber on these cars.

Camber in the front is not adjustable in any way as provided by the factory. +- 0.30 upper control arms are available, and they list for $478 each.

[Big Mexican Women]

Originally Posted by thakid22

With the Double Wishbone front suspension design of the F10, camber can be changed one of three ways...
1. Get shorter upper control arms - BMW offers these in a -.5 degree configuration. If I recall, they are about $350 apiece. You need two. One for each side of the car.

2. Get replacement lower control arms or clocked bushings. I have not seen this available for the F10, but they may be out there.

3. Get lowering springs. When you lower the car, negative camber will increase.


Be mindful that 0 camber is normal for these cars... BMW went very conservative up front in this regard. In fact, you can have a bit of positive camber in the front and still be in “spec.”


Additionally, don’t expect .5 degrees of additional negative camber to be life changing on this platform. You will see it more than you feel it.

If you want to see the BMW items to adjust the camber, goto realoem.com or any other bmw parts site to see the modified upper control arms. You will find them listed with the front suspension parts.

Thanks! so are you saying that I should get both upper and lower control arms as replacements? I may as well change my lower control arms anyway because the roads where I live are garbage and are now destroying my second set of control arms, even though I am constantly trying to swerve around potholes.

anyways: so my plan is to get the control arms and the dinan camber plates, which will leave me at roughly -1 front camber which should be around ideal for the type of driving I like to do.

lastly, there are these:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-par...194516-1j~kma/

they any good?

thanks so much!

[Big Mexican Women]

Originally Posted by Stück

The factory range is + 0.50 to - 0.50, not much negative camber on these cars.

Camber in the front is not adjustable in any way as provided by the factory. +- 0.30 upper control arms are available, and they list for $478 each.

Thanks! what about the lower control arms and these adjustable camber bushings I mentioned in my previous post? they any good?

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

Thanks! so are you saying that I should get both upper and lower control arms as replacements? I may as well change my lower control arms anyway because the roads where I live are garbage and are now destroying my second set of control arms, even though I am constantly trying to swerve around potholes.

anyways: so my plan is to get the control arms and the dinan camber plates, which will leave me at roughly -1 front camber which should be around ideal for the type of driving I like to do.

lastly, there are these:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-par...194516-1j~kma/

they any good?

thanks so much!

I don’t have any knowledge or experience with any lower control arm modifications. I have run various camber settings on my F10... The car seemed not to care much. I found that the front tire scrubbing understeer was a result of suspension balance rather than camber. Stiffening the rear suspension, instantly made the front more lively, responsive, and grippy. The stock setup overloads the front tires on hard cornering.

The F10 benefits from double wishbone (DWB) front suspension. The main benefit is that design gives a magnificent camber curve... even though camber may measure at near 0 degrees when the car is not moving, when the body rolls/leans during cornering, the camber is dynamically increased by the DWB setup. The result is better straight line braking and tire wear (where 0 camber is advantageous) and increased front grip, as the negative camber is rapidly increased at the outside wheels when cornering.

So, you have a departure from conventional BMW operation here. On past BMWs increasing front camber was more beneficial because the strut type suspension couldn’t (as effectively) dynamically add the negative camber when you needed it. In addition, those BMWs had less body roll/lean. The answer (for those strut type systems) was to add in more negative static camber, giving you more negative camber when you cornered too.

Anyway what do you look to gain with the -1.0 camber? Are you sure a rear (or front and rear) sway bar wouldn’t serve you better?

[HighlandPete]

Are you aware of the Meyle-HD adjustable top wishbones for the F10?

https://www.meyle.com/en/products/pr...ines/meyle-hd/

The picture on the link shows a BMW part, the Meyle-HD PDF mentions them. We can get them for around £100 - 120 (sterling) in the UK.

No experience with them, but does look like a good way to get precise adjustment. Really designed for camber correction; +/- 30 mins. Could be another tool in the box, for getting what you want.

[Big Mexican Women]

Originally Posted by thakid22

I don’t have any knowledge or experience with any lower control arm modifications. I have run various camber settings on my F10... The car seemed not to care much. I found that the front tire scrubbing understeer was a result of suspension balance rather than camber. Stiffening the rear suspension, instantly made the front more lively, responsive, and grippy. The stock setup overloads the front tires on hard cornering.

The F10 benefits from double wishbone (DWB) front suspension. The main benefit is that design gives a magnificent camber curve... even though camber may measure at near 0 degrees when the car is not moving, when the body rolls/leans during cornering, the camber is dynamically increased by the DWB setup. The result is better straight line braking and tire wear (where 0 camber is advantageous) and increased front grip, as the negative camber is rapidly increased at the outside wheels when cornering.

So, you have a departure from conventional BMW operation here. On past BMWs increasing front camber was more beneficial because the strut type suspension couldn’t (as effectively) dynamically add the negative camber when you needed it. In addition, those BMWs had less body roll/lean. The answer (for those strut type systems) was to add in more negative static camber, giving you more negative camber when you cornered too.

Anyway what do you look to gain with the -1.0 camber? Are you sure a rear (or front and rear) sway bar wouldn’t serve you better?

great write-up, thanks! I am actually considering a both front/rear sway bar for my car. I just don't know what to go with. I did read somewhere that the DWB suspension automatically moves the camber around depending on cornering forces, but the reason why I am looking to adjust my camber is because I can feel that the balance is just off during more spirited cornering. sometimes the weight transfers nicely to the rear axle and I get a nice little drift/rotation, but often I feel like there is simply too much weight transferring to the front axle resulting in too much unwanted plowing/understeer. other than sway bars and camber plates along with the top wishbones, is there anything else I can do to help make the car corner more balanced and lively? I am also looking into the Bilstein B12 suspension kit.

on top of all this, I am looking for a LSD, but have had no luck finding one for my car. could anyone point me into the right direction?

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Are you aware of the Meyle-HD adjustable top wishbones for the F10?

https://www.meyle.com/en/products/pr...ines/meyle-hd/

The picture on the link shows a BMW part, the Meyle-HD PDF mentions them. We can get them for around £100 - 120 (sterling) in the UK.

No experience with them, but does look like a good way to get precise adjustment. Really designed for camber correction; +/- 30 mins. Could be another tool in the box, for getting what you want.

Great, thank you for the link. what about the lower control arms, any benefit in upgrading those?

also, I am aware that e9x owners tend to upgrade their control arms to the M3 variant which greatly improves stability/ cornering under braking, results in a livelier front-end, and also allows for more camber adjustment. Is there any such modification for the F10 platform, such as M5 control arms for example?

[Big Mexican Women]

Also, does anybody know if the F10 chassis has alignment pins that could be removed?

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Are you aware of the Meyle-HD adjustable top wishbones for the F10?

https://www.meyle.com/en/products/pr...ines/meyle-hd/

The picture on the link shows a BMW part, the Meyle-HD PDF mentions them. We can get them for around £100 - 120 (sterling) in the UK.

No experience with them, but does look like a good way to get precise adjustment. Really designed for camber correction; +/- 30 mins. Could be another tool in the box, for getting what you want.

Nice find! I ran Meyle HD tie rod ends on my E90, with much success.
I had no clue they had parts for the F10 too.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

Also, does anybody know if the F10 chassis has alignment pins that could be removed?

There are no pins that can be removed on the F10. The camber is set completely with the control arms on a DWB car. With struts, you can slide the strut mount in our out to adjust camber, after you remove the pins.
There are no provisions to do this on the F10 (stock).

[Big Mexican Women]

Originally Posted by thakid22

There are no pins that can be removed on the F10. The camber is set completely with the control arms on a DWB car. With struts, you can slide the strut mount in our out to adjust camber, after you remove the pins.
There are no provisions to do this on the F10 (stock).

hmm.. that's what I was thinking. Just wanted to confirm this. Thanks!

can anyone recommend a good brand for sway bars and some other handling mods for the F10 platform?

any information on M5 control-arms or something like this?

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

great write-up, thanks! I am actually considering a both front/rear sway bar for my car. I just don't know what to go with. I did read somewhere that the DWB suspension automatically moves the camber around depending on cornering forces, but the reason why I am looking to adjust my camber is because I can feel that the balance is just off during more spirited cornering. sometimes the weight transfers nicely to the rear axle and I get a nice little drift/rotation, but often I feel like there is simply too much weight transferring to the front axle resulting in too much unwanted plowing/understeer. other than sway bars and camber plates along with the top wishbones, is there anything else I can do to help make the car corner more balanced and lively? I am also looking into the Bilstein B12 suspension kit.

I know the feeling you are talking about. Coming from my E60 535i Sport (which NEVER slid/grinded/abused the front tires on dry pavement), I was shocked by the amount of torture the F10 front contact patches seem to experience. In brisk and tight corners, especially at low speeds, the understeer is quite the nasty surprise.
This went completely away when I replaced my stock suspension with KWV3s.
The F10s are setup relatively soft. Shocks, springs, and/or sways take care of this relatively easily. Any one or combination of the 3 should get you where you want to be.

When I set the KWV3 too softly, the unpredictability and understeer start to creep back in.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

hmm.. that's what I was thinking. Just wanted to confirm this. Thanks!

can anyone recommend a good brand for sway bars and some other handling mods for the F10 platform?

any information on M5 control-arms or something like this?

My car has ARS so I haven’t tested any sways... But it is obvious that stiffening the suspension does good things for the handling. I am just dumbfounded that these KWV3 handle better and ride more smoothly than did the stock ARS/EDC setup. That being said, I am still tweaking the settings getting things dialed in where I want them.

[Big Mexican Women]

Originally Posted by thakid22

I know the feeling you are talking about. Coming from my E60 535i Sport (which NEVER slid/grinded/abused the front tires on dry pavement), I was shocked by the amount of torture the F10 front contact patches seem to experience. In brisk and tight corners, especially at low speeds, the understeer is quite the nasty surprise.
This went completely away when I replaced my stock suspension with KWV3s.
The F10s are setup relatively soft. Shocks, springs, and/or sways take care of this relatively easily. Any one or combination of the 3 should get you where you want to be.

When I set the KWV3 too softly, the unpredictability and understeer start to creep back in.

This is what I've experienced too. my F10 is RWD with the base model suspension, and it definitely is rather soft and floaty for a BMW. feels nicely planted around high-speed corners and very comfortable on the highway, dissapointing to say the least around tight low-speed corners like you've mentioned. interesting how much the coilovers helped, I was not expecting that. It could also have something to do with the fact that camber naturally increases when you lower your car.

Originally Posted by thakid22

My car has ARS so I haven’t tested any sways... But it is obvious that stiffening the suspension does good things for the handling. I am just dumbfounded that these KWV3 handle better and ride more smoothly than did the stock ARS/EDC setup. That being said, I am still tweaking the settings getting things dialed in where I want them.

Nice, so would you say that your F10 corners balanced and does not understeer anymore with your coilovers? I want to go with the Bilstein B12 kit. what are your thoughts on this suspension?

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

This is what I've experienced too. my F10 is RWD with the base model suspension, and it definitely is rather soft and floaty for a BMW. feels nicely planted around high-speed corners and very comfortable on the highway, dissapointing to say the least around tight low-speed corners like you've mentioned. interesting how much the coilovers helped, I was not expecting that. It could also have something to do with the fact that camber naturally increases when you lower your car.



Nice, so would you say that your F10 corners balanced and does not understeer anymore with your coilovers? I want to go with the Bilstein B12 kit. what are your thoughts on this suspension?

I bought the coil overs strictly to improve ride and handling. I’ve never been a fan of the super low look. Accordingly, I set the ride height at roughly 704 MSport suspension height. This brought my camber to -.5 up front and -1.8 rear.

I am still dialing in the compression and rebound settings. The rear seems perfect at KW stock recommended settings. The front, require significantly stiffer settings than recommended to control rebound adequately. With rebound/compression set at the KW recommended 9/6 the front is too rubbery/elastic over bad roads. To get good body control on less than smooth roads, I am near 6/3 (which is stiffer) up front. The rear are set at the stock 9/6.
Set here, body roll is minimal, the ride is always composed, and ride quality is taut tight and firm.

I’ve only had the setup for a month so I am still evaluating the handling and making adjustments. As is stands though, the handling is fine. Very neutral. Throttle steer is easily accomplished.

I’ll refrain from giving my full judgement of the KWV3 you til I have had more time to perfect the settings. But here is what I can tell you for sure...

1. Ride quality can be set super soft, to sports car stiff, or anywhere in between.

2. The car handles big bumps and sharp impacts farrrr smoother than the stock ARS/EDC suspension.

3. Body roll and vehicle balanced can be tuned any way you like it.

4. Brake dive is still more present than I’d like (at any of the settings I’ve tried). While the vehicle is on the move, you can’t really detect any dive if you step or even slam on the brake. But it is certainly detectable at slow speeds (a distinct dip and rise of the front end at stop signs and the like).

5. The front shocks still need fine tuning to find a place where vertical body control is to my expectation while maintaining the good ride quality.

6. The rear is sublime. It is really solid and stable back there with no bounce whatsoever. At the same time the ride is family car smooth. The back is so perfect, I have not touched it’s damping settings yet. In fact, I might reduce the rear rebound one notch as it is so fabulously tied down back there that it almost lacks character. It is lively when cornering, though.

I had a similar experience with my E90 335i Sport... no matter how much I stiffened the rear suspension, it still bobbed, bounced and pogo‘d vertically on bad roads. The problem turned out to be BMWs choice of super soft rear upper strut mounts. I changed them for Dinan rear strut mounts and BAM! Everything came together like butter. Lol. I suspect that the front strut mounts on the F10 with EDC are relatively soft causing the similar behavior.

I’ll keep you posted...

[Big Mexican Women]

Originally Posted by thakid22

I bought the coil overs strictly to improve ride and handling. I’ve never been a fan of the super low look. Accordingly, I set the ride height at roughly 704 MSport suspension height. This brought my camber to -.5 up front and -1.8 rear.

I am still dialing in the compression and rebound settings. The rear seems perfect at KW stock recommended settings. The front, require significantly stiffer settings than recommended to control rebound adequately. With rebound/compression set at the KW recommended 9/6 the front is too rubbery/elastic over bad roads. To get good body control on less than smooth roads, I am near 6/3 (which is stiffer) up front. The rear are set at the stock 9/6.
Set here, body roll is minimal, the ride is always composed, and ride quality is taut tight and firm.

I’ve only had the setup for a month so I am still evaluating the handling and making adjustments. As is stands though, the handling is fine. Very neutral. Throttle steer is easily accomplished.

I’ll refrain from giving my full judgement of the KWV3 you til I have had more time to perfect the settings. But here is what I can tell you for sure...

1. Ride quality can be set super soft, to sports car stiff, or anywhere in between.

2. The car handles big bumps and sharp impacts farrrr smoother than the stock ARS/EDC suspension.

3. Body roll and vehicle balanced can be tuned any way you like it.

4. Brake dive is still more present than I’d like (at any of the settings I’ve tried). While the vehicle is on the move, you can’t really detect any dive if you step or even slam on the brake. But it is certainly detectable at slow speeds (a distinct dip and rise of the front end at stop signs and the like).

5. The front shocks still need fine tuning to find a place where vertical body control is to my expectation while maintaining the good ride quality.

6. The rear is sublime. It is really solid and stable back there with no bounce whatsoever. At the same time the ride is family car smooth. The back is so perfect, I have not touched it’s damping settings yet. In fact, I might reduce the rear rebound one notch as it is so fabulously tied down back there that it almost lacks character. It is lively when cornering, though.

I had a similar experience with my E90 335i Sport... no matter how much I stiffened the rear suspension, it still bobbed, bounced and pogo‘d vertically on bad roads. The problem turned out to be BMWs choice of super soft rear upper strut mounts. I changed them for Dinan rear strut mounts and BAM! Everything came together like butter. Lol. I suspect that the front strut mounts on the F10 with EDC are relatively soft causing the similar behavior.

I’ll keep you posted...

ok, so strut mounts are another thing to consider. the fronts as well? what about bushing upgrades, such as the polyurethane ones etc. any use in upgrading these?

and what do you think of those KMAC adjustable camber bushings I mentioned? any use in getting those? I think some DINAN camber plates and those Meyle upper-control arms should offer a sufficient amount of negative camber once I lower the car on Bilsteins.

do you have sway bars installed? I think this would really help you achieve that happy medium you are looking for with your front struts.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Big Mexican Women

ok, so strut mounts are another thing to consider. the fronts as well? what about bushing upgrades, such as the polyurethane ones etc. any use in upgrading these?

and what do you think of those KMAC adjustable camber bushings I mentioned? any use in getting those? I think some DINAN camber plates and those Meyle upper-control arms should offer a sufficient amount of negative camber once I lower the car on Bilsteins.

do you have sway bars installed? I think this would really help you achieve that happy medium you are looking for with your front struts.

In my experience, the strut mounts on non-EDC cars are ok.
There are 3 front mount part #’s used for the F10s.
The very first 2011’s had one mount.
Then, the 2011 thru 2016 non EDC cars had another mount.
And the 2011 to 2016 EDC/DHP cars have a mount all of there own.
Since we are counting, the M5 has its own mount too. I have not done enough research to say that the EDC/DHP front mount is too soft. It’s just a hunch at this point. I’ll figure it out soon though. I haven’t heard other owners with the EDC/DHP voice the same complaint. In any event, if your car doesn’t have the electronic suspension, your mounts are fine. For all I know (at this point) the EDC mounts may be fine too. They have a different part # from BMW so SOMETHING is different. Physically they look the same... so I’m thinking surely the durometer of the bushing in the mount is softer... too soft. Again, we will see.

Polyurethane... I used Powerflex polyurethane bushings in the front of my old E60 535i Sport. It really wasn’t worth it. They did sharpen the suspension, but they also increased noise and harshness. It was eerily similar in feel to when the car had runflats mounted.

You’ll definitely be able to get significantly more camber with any of the options mentioned in this thread, even more if you combine them (lowering + camber arms or bushings).

I don’t have sways. My car has the active sway bars.
With my KWV3 body roll is not an issue, even with the active sway bars turned off. The only issue is a slight bounciness (of the front suspension) on secondary roads or rough surfaces. Again, the KwV3 have so many adjustments that it may take me a bit to find that sweet spot for my car. I’m getting closer every day.