[natedog7700]

Does anyone have experience with the MMP stage 3's/Vargas GC turbos and regular stage 2 turbos (Pure stage 2, Vargas stage 2, RB's) that can explain the difference in turbo lag? Im looking at Stage 3 MMP's but im not sure ill like the added lag it offers over the standard stage 2 turbo's out there. I like to run my car hard in the corners and would hate to do a big single because of the lag.

[TemjinX2]

arent these guys just upgrading the compressor wheels? i thought lag's only effected once you change the area radius of the turbo.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

The high flow manifold of the GC's allow for significantly better low end and transient response over traditional modified stock manifold designs.

For clarification, all else equal, remember spool is a function of the aero characteristics of the wheels being used, lag is a time (time-to-torque) measurement. Spool is where in the RPM band you start making power at boost, lag is how long it takes to go from no boost to full boost once you're in the appropriate RPM band. They're in bed with each other but not the same thing. Low lag = the perception of better throttle response. Car feels more "alive".

Chris

[Glennyd]

What are your power goals for daily and max? Include fueling you have and or plan to have?

[langsbr]

Here's a datalog comparison of my stock turbos on the MHD Stage 2+ map vs a VERY rough base tune of my MMPs.

I don't think you're giving up that much low end to be honest.

[langsbr]

Here is a VirtualDyno comparison of the same logs. Remember that the MMP dyno (the one in red) is running no timing and has not been optimized at all, vs the fully developed (though general) Stage 2+ MHD tune.

[1hunglow]

Nothing compares to stock like response, period.

Closest to stock for an upgrade stage 2 would be a 15t option

[langsbr]

Originally Posted by 1hunglow

Nothing compares to stock like response, period.

Closest to stock for an upgrade stage 2 would be a 15t option

But how good is that stock response doing above 3800 rpms? 19T FTW.

[1hunglow]

Originally Posted by langsbr

But how good is that stock response doing above 3800 rpms? 19T FTW.

Depends what you are after. In order to push any 19t setup to full potential, you will need at minimum a stage 2 LPFP setup, and more than likely port.

Pros & cons sir.

I've yet to see a log of a stock turbo car struggling to maintain boost at 3800rpm...

If you meant past say 5500 I'd agree with you.

[langsbr]

Originally Posted by 1hunglow

Depends what you are after. In order to push any 19t setup to full potential, you will need at minimum a stage 2 LPFP setup, and more than likely port.

Pros & cons sir.

I've yet to see a log of a stock turbo car struggling to maintain boost at 3800rpm...

If you meant past say 5500 I'd agree with you.

Yes, as you said it's all about pros and cons. My rationale was that past 3800 rpms, my MMPs are exceeding the stock turbos and even below that they matched. Only a small rpm window are the stock turbos spooling any better.

I do have a stage 2 LPFP, but I'm not interested in port injection. No need for PI on pump gas, I wouldn't feel comfortable going above 500 whp on pump. With just a stage 2 lpfp, another 75 whp should be in range. I'll just have to be happy with 550 - 600whp without PI, or get a shotgun hpfp and go for 650.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

A 19T does not have stock like response, IF all else is equal. It can come close, if properly plumbed/etc. etc. but it's not going to match those little baby hair dryers. It is a great wheel though -absolutely love the 19T's on a 3 liter motor. Responsiveness wise, though, there is a definite increase in responsiveness going from the 19T's in the GC's down to the 16T's on the lites. Huge flow manifold plus smaller compressor = weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Chris

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

A 19T does not have stock like response, IF all else is equal. It can come close, if properly plumbed/etc. etc. but it's not going to match those little baby hair dryers. It is a great wheel though -absolutely love the 19T's on a 3 liter motor. Responsiveness wise, though, there is a definite increase in responsiveness going from the 19T's in the GC's down to the 16T's on the lites. Huge flow manifold plus smaller compressor = weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Chris

Interesting, How much HP are those GC lites capable of on upper 20's psi? I saw 650whp MAX on a thread posted by you guys, but then the website says 700+whp.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

Interesting, How much HP are those GC lites capable of on upper 20's psi? I saw 650whp MAX on a thread posted by you guys, but then the website says 700+whp.

Really depends on fuel, tune, motor health, supporting mods, etc.

It's a 16T compressor, so you can do upper 6's, but since the GC manifolds flow so well, you'll gain a little power there, full out maxed tune probably close to 700 but if that's your goal... go up a size. You'll be leaning on them hard.

The 650 we did was on a motor with significant leakdown issues.

Chris