[nissubaru]

Battery died last weekend so I pulled it and put it on the charger in my house (city parking). Had it load tested by the Interstate battery dealer and also load tested it myself when reinstalled. Everything checked out so I reinstalled and monitored the battery voltage over the next few days. However, it dropped down to ~12.4V and then ~12.2V the following day.

I did a draw test which can be seen in the video a few comments below but idk what to make of it. Seems weird that the reading eventually 0s out and I did trace it to some fuses which would get me down to ~100mA.

I also don't drive very far or long for work each day so I thought maybe I just didn't drive enough to keep the battery charged. However yesterday I drove for 45 min 30 min and 30 min each time and my battery was still only at 12.15V after charging the battery over 12.6V the night before.

Alternator reads ~13. 3V with accessories on, seems low but it's a brand new Bosch reman so I'm having a hard time believing that's the problem. Any ideas? I've been keeping the battery charged so it doesn't die but I'm clueless at this point.

[nissubaru]

I believe so. The way I performed the test/sleep mode was by opening the trunk and locking the latch manually so the dome light would go off in the trunk. Then I did the same to the front passenger door so I could get to the fuse panel.

Locked the car and let it sleep for ~15 minutes before performing any tests. I figured if it was still awake I'd at least see it drop while I was pulling fuses. I was probably out there for another hour or so and I didn't see any change unless it was in the fuses being pulled. I verified each suspected fuse by putting them back in and out again and they definitely seemed to be drawing more power than anticipated.

JB4 was removed a couple weeks ago although I don't think it's related?

[nissubaru]

Video of me performing draw test:
Watch "August 31, 2017" on YouTube

[noah.s]

Do you have comfort access?

[nissubaru]

Originally Posted by noah.s

Do you have comfort access?

Nope no comfort access.

At this point I don't even know if there is a problem. I charged the battery to have it tested by the Interstate dealer so I don't know if the battery would have died on its own over time. I recently installed a brand new bosch reman alternator so I doubt it is that but with all my accessories on I'm only seeing ~13.3v at idle.


Seems low. Battery doesn't seem to go up to 12.6 after 30+ minutes of driving. Even after a fresh charge I'm still down to 12.25v right now on the battery

Edit: I also noticed my str8shot ethanol sensor is reading all 0s, even with a gallon of e85 in the tank. Thought that was odd

Edit 2: Additional info on battery drain cause idk if it's even parasitic. This is happening way too quick. Fresh charge, 12.67V this morning. Hooked up battery to car and then drove for probably 45 min straight, mix of city and highway. Stopped off at pep boys, drove home checked voltage 12.45. May have had some surface charge leftover. Couple hours later I drove to my parents house ~30 min checked voltage 12.25. Drove home, checked voltage at the battery and got 12.15

I have an aftermarket amp/speakers but the alternator should make more than enough power

[opjose]

13v is too low while running.

It will not charge the battery sufficiently.

[nissubaru]

Downloaded Carly and pulled a fault report:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4i...ew?usp=sharing

There's a bunch of interesting stuff in here that I'll have to look into when I get back from my business trip. Definitely seems to have some power supply issues but I don't know what to make of it.

I'm thinking my next steps will be to recharge the battery, register battery if needed, wipe codes fully & then see what happens? For all I know these faults are old. I don't think the alternator is the problem but rather something else messing with the electronics.

[tylerboland01]

14.2v is generally the minimum output required to charge a battery.

[nissubaru]

Originally Posted by tylerboland01

14.2v is generally the minimum output required to charge a battery.

I'd agree with that, but are you suggesting that my new (refurbished bosch al0850x) alternator is bad?

I can swap the alternator out since I bought it from FCPEuro but is that really what we think is the problem? Not something else?

[tylerboland01]

Originally Posted by nissubaru

I'd agree with that, but are you suggesting that my new (refurbished bosch al0850x) alternator is bad?

I can swap the alternator out since I bought it from FCPEuro but is that really what we think is the problem? Not something else?

Yes, refurbs have higher failure rates. it's a possibility. Who was the rebuilder?

[nissubaru]

Originally Posted by tylerboland01

Yes, refurbs have higher failure rates. it's a possibility. Who was the rebuilder?

Bosch brand remanufactured. I went with an ACDelco reman the first time around and my car lost its mind. Bought an actual Bosch brand OEM reman and installed it, car ran fine. However I don't recall the voltage going up over 13.5 after install, it was 12.8V before which is why I decided to replace it.

Furthermore, the voltage regulator seeme to be the part that doesn't get replaced on these remanufactured alternators. But I thought they would cause the alternator to charge over 15 or 16 volts if that was the problem?

I also really dont think my battery is registered but that's just a guess

[tylerboland01]

Originally Posted by nissubaru

Bosch brand remanufactured. I went with an ACDelco reman the first time around and my car lost its mind. Bought an actual Bosch brand OEM reman and installed it, car ran fine. However I don't recall the voltage going up over 13.5 after install, it was 12.8V before which is why I decided to replace it.

Furthermore, the voltage regulator seeme to be the part that doesn't get replaced on these remanufactured alternators. But I thought they would cause the alternator to charge over 15 or 16 volts if that was the problem?

I also really dont think my battery is registered but that's just a guess

14.2v - 14.7 is the range the alternator needs to be in to properly charge the battery. Anything under is either barely maintaining the battery or not charging it. Anything over that range is cooking the battery.

Fully charge the battery then check the voltage output. For example my car is producing 14.4v at idle with the AC and radio going, while my battery was producing 12.4v prior.

Check the alternator's diodes by switching your multimeter to alternating current, any variance over 0.5VAC and you have a problem.

[tylerboland01]

I think it's also worth noting that remanufactured parts are almost never rebuilt by the OEM, like most big companies they always farm it out to the lowest bidder.

I'm currently working in auto parts parts and I frequently see brand new remanned units test with bad diodes, regulators or poor output. Hell in the 2 years I've been working this job I've pulled 14 alternator off the shelf with bearings siezed directly from the rebuilder.

[nissubaru]

Originally Posted by tylerboland01

I think it's also worth noting that remanufactured parts are almost never rebuilt by the OEM, like most big companies they always farm it out to the lowest bidder.

I'm currently working in auto parts parts and I frequently see brand new remanned units test with bad diodes, regulators or poor output. Hell in the 2 years I've been working this job I've pulled 14 alternator off the shelf with bearings siezed directly from the rebuilder.

Lol damn, that's what I was afraid of. This will be alternator #5 for this car, first one went bad, second one was ACDelco fuckery, third was a Bosch reman with a busted plug connection, fourth is current one.

I may just order it since I'm traveling for work and can't test the diodes until I get home anyway.

[tylerboland01]

Originally Posted by nissubaru

Lol damn, that's what I was afraid of. This will be alternator #5 for this car, first one went bad, second one was ACDelco fuckery, third was a Bosch reman with a busted plug connection, fourth is current one.

I may just order it since I'm traveling for work and can't test the diodes until I get home anyway.

Was browsing realOEM earlier and noticed something interesting. The only part # listed for our cars alternator is the Bosch reman unit. No amount of searching and crossing part #'s yielded a new unit. So it seems as though Bosch has ended production of our alternator and is instead only producing the remann-ed part.

Bosch's website states that their remans only replace the stators, rectifier, diodes, and voltage regulators "when required". I couldn't find anything on the specs of what they consider "when required". Kinda disappointing

[opjose]

How good is the Denso unit?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-denso-pa...317616119~den/

[tylerboland01]

Not sure of the neppidenso for our cars. They seem to be hit or miss for other makes.

[lookalikehuuh]

well.. based on your video you definitely did not perform the current draw test correctly.. there is no way that meter could measure the actual power draw the way you have it hooked up.

Take you car to a local auto parts dealer ask them to perform an alternator load test. They can then run an alternator test while the engine is running. Their machine will place a load on the alternator and will tell you if its is bad or performing under proper specifications. My main suspect currently is the alternator but have it verified by the auto parts store equipment. Luckily you bought it from FCP so we know is a quality refurb and they have great warranty.

Don't worry about all those other codes that Carly pulled because it seems you car was below 9v at some point in time... likely due to a failed alternator. When the voltage drops below 10v the electrical system in these cars goes haywire but should be gone once the charging system issue is fixed and then you clear all the codes out.

Also dont forget to check all electrical connections going from the alternator to the battery since it is quite a long run of cable for damage and ensure all connections are tight. The grounds are especially important.

[nissubaru]

Originally Posted by lookalikehuuh

well.. based on your video you definitely did not perform the current draw test correctly.. there is no way that meter could measure the actual power draw the way you have it hooked up.

Take you car to a local auto parts dealer ask them to perform an alternator load test. They can then run an alternator test while the engine is running. Their machine will place a load on the alternator and will tell you if its is bad or performing under proper specifications. My main suspect currently is the alternator but have it verified by the auto parts store equipment. Luckily you bought it from FCP so we know is a quality refurb and they have great warranty.

Don't worry about all those other codes that Carly pulled because it seems you car was below 9v at some point in time... likely due to a failed alternator. When the voltage drops below 10v the electrical system in these cars goes haywire but should be gone once the charging system issue is fixed and then you clear all the codes out.

Also dont forget to check all electrical connections going from the alternator to the battery since it is quite a long run of cable for damage and ensure all connections are tight. The grounds are especially important.

Appreciate the input, but what do you think I did wrong with my draw test and how can I do it correctly? Seems pretty simple so I'd like to know how I messed up. I did the same on my Subaru and it worked fine.

I'll probably take my car to the AutoZone nearby and see if they can load test the alternator later. I also have a new (refurb) Bosch AL0850X from FCPEuro to throw in as well

My battery is charged up and reading 12.99V, ready to be reinstalled. I also checked the coding on the battery before pulling it out and it's correctly coded at 80ah. I may check and re-register if necessary.

Hoping to get this figured out soon.

[nissubaru]

Update: Tightened one of the connections on the positive side of the battery before reinstalling the battery, the one with the 10mm nut. 13mm nut didn't really budge but I was able to torque the 10mm nut maybe half a turn or so. Battery was 12.99V

As I had suspected, there were no records in INPA for battery registration. I'm not sure why this is or how the registration was lost or if that's even a thing? I reset adaptations once through MHD when I was chasing down primary O2 sensor issues as well as flashed the car back to stock via MHD so maybe I did it by accident. Either way I registered the battery again through Tool32 and verified through INPA. Also correctly coded at 80ah and verified through INPA as well as NCSExpert. It was just the battery that was not registered. Checked battery voltage since I wasn't using a trickle charger to register the battery (parking garage and I figured it would be quick), 12.4V

Took the car out for a little bit, maybe 25 minutes worth of driving between 15-50mph. Stopped and started 2x. Battery voltage read 12.55V after sitting for 20 min. In my opinion this is better than I've seen in the past few weeks. Since the issue occurred and I've been monitoring, I haven't seen the battery voltage go up after driving. Even though it's way too early to say anything definitively, I'm hopeful.

Will update in a few days or sooner if I don't think it's fixed. For now I believe the battery just needed to be registered?

[cdm244@gmail.com]

Your parasitic loss number looks way too high - should be in the 10 - 20ma range (1/100 to 1/50 of an amp). And as a consequence your voltage numbers naturally are dropping with time too quickly. Try measuring via the under hood connectors; the trunk method requires disabling the light/trunk open switch as you noted and also involves connections around the IBS - a device that most of us (me for certain) do not entirely understand. Wait until the car has gone to sleep (start button LED off) and the battery has stabilized (30 minutes after shutoff) before checking voltage. Draw loss is the same locked or unlocked but in locked state the system reaches its sleep mode more quickly - I have a 2011 and mine goes to sleep in about 30 seconds locked and 2 minutes unlocked. In my experience the battery loses about .01 volt per day - so if you start at a nice 12.6 v you should be able to still start the car 60 days later with 12.0 v available. Personally I wouldn't go this long - figuring on a month as the maximum (I had mine drop to 11.9 v once when doing work on the car and it would not crank at that voltage) (not sure how the IBS is intended to function but in that case it did not shut down secondary loads to conserve starting reserve). To check parasitic draw:

> take a healthy extra battery
> hook it up to under hood jump connector - as if doing a jump start
> let the system sit for a few hours to allow both batteries to equalize in voltage (since one might start a 12.6 and one at 12.4)
> put your meter between the jump battery negative and vehicle ground
> current reading in ma will be 1/2 the actual parasitic draw (because two batteries in parallel at equal voltage will share any load)

[nissubaru]

Originally Posted by cdm244@gmail.com

Your parasitic loss number looks way too high - should be in the 10 - 20ma range (1/100 to 1/50 of an amp). And as a consequence your voltage numbers naturally are dropping with time too quickly. Try measuring via the under hood connectors; the trunk method requires disabling the light/trunk open switch as you noted and also involves connections around the IBS - a device that most of us (me for certain) do not entirely understand. Wait until the car has gone to sleep (start button LED off) and the battery has stabilized (30 minutes after shutoff) before checking voltage. Draw loss is the same locked or unlocked but in locked state the system reaches its sleep mode more quickly - I have a 2011 and mine goes to sleep in about 30 seconds locked and 2 minutes unlocked. In my experience the battery loses about .01 volt per day - so if you start at a nice 12.6 v you should be able to still start the car 60 days later with 12.0 v available. Personally I wouldn't go this long - figuring on a month as the maximum (I had mine drop to 11.9 v once when doing work on the car and it would not crank at that voltage) (not sure how the IBS is intended to function but in that case it did not shut down secondary loads to conserve starting reserve). To check parasitic draw:

> take a healthy extra battery
> hook it up to under hood jump connector - as if doing a jump start
> let the system sit for a few hours to allow both batteries to equalize in voltage (since one might start a 12.6 and one at 12.4)
> put your meter between the jump battery negative and vehicle ground
> current reading in ma will be 1/2 the actual parasitic draw (because two batteries in parallel at equal voltage will share any load)

You are correct about the car having some sort of parasitic draw. When I left the car last night it was 12.55V but this morning it was down to 12.25V. Probably 10-11 hours in between readings. I'm glad you mentioned how I could use the Start button glow for reference when the car goes to sleep cause I was a little unsure how to tell or what light to use.

I do have an ethanol sensor + digital readout in the center console which never turns off but it never seemed to be a problem for the previous owner since I've been talking with him as well. Maybe its wired wrong?

As for the alternator charging the battery, I didn't see any improvement after driving to work for 25 min. Read 12.15V actually.

I will try the parasitic draw test again using your method, might take a day or so though.

Also, should I just go ahead and replace the alternator with the new one I got from FCPEuro? Shouldn't take me more than 30 min to an hour...even with the parasitic draw the battery isn't charging.