[USANigel]

My washer pumps failed and the dealer says it's because I used orange Rainx washer fluid. I suspect the fluid drained because the seal/pump failed before I added rainx since I apparently emptied the washer fluid reservoir without using it. Has anyone else been told they can only use blue washer fluid?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by USANigel

My washer pumps failed and the dealer says it's because I used orange Rainx washer fluid. I suspect the fluid drained because the seal/pump failed before I added rainx since I apparently emptied the washer fluid reservoir without using it. Has anyone else been told they can only use blue washer fluid?

Wtf. No.

[ZPrime]

Audi pulls this same kind of BS - last time I brought my TT in I asked them to adjust the washer nozzle, since it was aimed kinda high when I got it. They explicitly noted on the repair order that there was orange fluid in the tank. Not sure how different color fluid would cause the nozzle to be aimed too high and spray over the car...

(this forum needs a more sarcastic / irritated rolleyes smiley... doesn't cut it with that stupid smile)

[chris719]

Originally Posted by USANigel

My washer pumps failed and the dealer says it's because I used orange Rainx washer fluid. I suspect the fluid drained because the seal/pump failed before I added rainx since I apparently emptied the washer fluid reservoir without using it. Has anyone else been told they can only use blue washer fluid?

I've heard of this stuff causing sensor issues in some VW cars, but never pump issues. I've used it before without any problems. Unless the manual has a statement with explicit washer fluid requirements, I would go scorched earth on them before I paid a dime for their pump failure. Raise hell and call BMWNA if you have to.

[JustChris]

Sounds ridiculous that from the dealer!

[giphlag]

I've had this happen on my last car. A VW. Thought I was being clever for buying the orange stuff but that ended up ruining the sensor and the whole unit had to be replaced.

[twin fed]

Yeah, BMW sells a specific concentrated windshield washer fluid that you mix with water. You are not even supposed to use any generic blue fluid, theirs only. According to them.

[McPurrs]

I do believe this is in the manual. "no-Silicon containing additives for water repelling effect"

[Tag]

Originally Posted by McPurrs

I do believe this is in the manual. "no-Silicon containing additives for water repelling effect"

Yup

[chris719]

Well damn, looks like the F8x may use some plastics that are incompatible.

[Transfer]

The RainX stuff leaves a film on wipers and so I assume it would do the same to a reservoir or other parts. I wouldn't use the stuff anymore. Now that being said, your dealer sounds like they're pulling some BS though.

[M2018]

Originally Posted by McPurrs

I do believe this is in the manual. "no-Silicon containing additives for water repelling effect"

Originally Posted by Tag

Yup

Wow, thanks a lot for the heads up. I always use orange RainX fluid for the windshield wipers. Guess I need to RTFM now.

[Spa2k]

Another "problem" is that Rain-X on the area of the windshield over the rain sensor and video camera for the nannies makes the glass too slick and messes with the calibration of the electronics. I guess it's back to the good old days of applying Rain-X by hand - except on the glass over the sensors. Has anyone contacted Rain-X about this?

The new bottle of Prestone green summer windshield washer fluid I have in the garage says it's safe for all rain-sensing systems, but there's no list of ingredients.

[pissclams]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Another "problem" is that Rain-X on the area of the windshield over the rain sensor and video camera for the nannies makes the glass too slick and messes with the calibration of the electronics. I guess it's back to the good old days of applying Rain-X by hand - except on the glass over the sensors. Has anyone contacted Rain-X about this?

The new bottle of Prestone green summer windshield washer fluid I have in the garage says it's safe for all rain-sensing systems, but there's no list of ingredients.

I wonder if coatings like Opti-Coat have the same effect?

[Spa2k]

My opinion would be yes. Our Volvo S60 manual prohibited using any agent that would make the windshield slicker over the sensors.

[2M]

Its funny but I don't even remember using the washer fluid. Car is kept clean most of the time so I try not to dirty it up with the fluid lol

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Another "problem" is that Rain-X on the area of the windshield over the rain sensor and video camera for the nannies makes the glass too slick and messes with the calibration of the electronics. I guess it's back to the good old days of applying Rain-X by hand - except on the glass over the sensors. Has anyone contacted Rain-X about this?

The new bottle of Prestone green summer windshield washer fluid I have in the garage says it's safe for all rain-sensing systems, but there's no list of ingredients.

I don't understand how the coating to bead up water could interfere with the rain sensor or the camera. I put Aquapel all over my VW and Audi's windshields, including over the rain sensor, no problems. The sensor isn't actually exposed outside the glass; it just uses infrared to detect rain / snow, it does this through the glass. Any coating you apply is just coating the glass, not the sensor.

Same goes for the camera - it's behind the glass. Why would it care if the glass is coated? Instead of the rain sheeting up in front of it, it will bead up and blow off from the wind.

This all seems like

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by ZPrime

I don't understand how the coating to bead up water could interfere with the rain sensor or the camera. I put Aquapel all over my VW and Audi's windshields, including over the rain sensor, no problems. The sensor isn't actually exposed outside the glass; it just uses infrared to detect rain / snow, it does this through the glass. Any coating you apply is just coating the glass, not the sensor.

Same goes for the camera - it's behind the glass. Why would it care if the glass is coated? Instead of the rain sheeting up in front of it, it will bead up and blow off from the wind.

This all seems like

As it was explained to me by an automotive engineer, it's because the characteristics of the water on a treated windshield are different and the sensors may not recognize what they were programmed to see. The coatings change the coefficient of friction on the windshield, which affects the way the water drops form, their size and the way they move across the sensor at different speeds. The car leaves the factory with settings for rain hitting "normal," stock glass; those settings are no longer accurate if you change the the medium through which they're seeing the water droplets. It's similar to the difference between unwaxed paint and paint that's been clayed, polished and waxed (or treated) - dirt, bugs and road debris are much easier to clean off because the surface is slicker.

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

As it was explained to me by an automotive engineer, it's because the characteristics of the water on a treated windshield are different and the sensors may not recognize what they were programmed to see. The coatings change the coefficient of friction on the windshield, which affects the way the water drops form, their size and the way they move across the sensor at different speeds. The car leaves the factory with settings for rain hitting "normal," stock glass; those settings are no longer accurate if you change the the medium through which they're seeing the water droplets. It's similar to the difference between unwaxed paint and paint that's been clayed, polished and waxed (or treated) - dirt, bugs and road debris are much easier to clean off because the surface is slicker.

I could buy that if the sensor was somehow evaluating / looking at the entire window... but I don't think it does?

From what I understand, they basically look at "how much cold liquid is hitting this small sensor area per second / millisecond" and from that extrapolate how often the wipers should run, with the assumption that rain is roughly uniform random distribution / density.

The only thing that you are changing by adding a hydrophobic coating is the way the water moves over that sensor - instead of sheeting and running up it slowly, it beads and skitters off. (Coefficient of friction isn't really changed by these coatings, they actually mess around with the surface and make the water bead instead of spreading out.)

If what the engineer told you was accurate, you should be able to coat the whole window except the sensor and have the wipers perform exactly as they did before. However, the water is not moving across the rest of the window the same way... after coated it tends to fly up, so if anything I'd think that leaving the sensor uncoated should cause the wipers to run more often than normal (due to the beads from lower on the window skating up to the sensor and then pooling up when they hit the uncoated section).

This is all conjecture on my part as I'm not an automotive engineer specializing in wiper systems though. I know someone who works for Delphi, I'm going to ask him if he can run this past a coworker because I really want a definitive answer on this.

If covering all of the glass except the sensor is "best" then I'd love to know that... if they think that coatings are completely bad regardless, I want to know that too... but that will suck because Aquapel is really nice in the winter (it helps keep ice from sticking to glass as easily too).

[Spa2k]

I contacted Rain-X to see what they have to say.

[Stilakazam]

Looking at how they work, I read on an article:

"The sensor projects infrared light into the windshield at a 45-degree angle. If the glass is dry, most of this light is reflected back into the sensor by the front of the windshield. If water droplets are on the glass, they reflect the light in different directions -- the wetter the glass, the less light makes it back into the sensor."
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/wiper4.htm

There are 3 things that could happen here. If there is a coating that makes it so less light is reflected back at the sensor and is beyond the sensitivity threshold, it could trigger more frequent wiping. The other is that the coating is thin enough to not trigger, but when water hits it and beads and slides off the sensor area, it could trigger less wiping which may be the desired outcome here as that is the reason for rainx, right? You only want the auto wipers to come on when the water on the windshield is otherwise obstructing you view. If the coating is helping with that, then you would theoretically want the wipers to wipe less often.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by USANigel

My washer pumps failed and the dealer says it's because I used orange Rainx washer fluid. I suspect the fluid drained because the seal/pump failed before I added rainx since I apparently emptied the washer fluid reservoir without using it. Has anyone else been told they can only use blue washer fluid?

I didn't have this issue. My M2 was delivered with a completely empty washer fluid reservoir.