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      03-31-2017, 11:59 AM   #1
pup73
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Steering wheel vibration under braking

Hey guys,

I do realize this probably has been brought up before, but I am going to ask again..

I recently have noticed a slight vibration through the steering wheel, on braking. Only occurs when braking from about 60mph to 40mph. Disappears at lower speeds.

Some details- I have a 2016 M2, approaching one year ownership (woohoo), and currently have about 4400 miles on it. Lowered on H&R springs (for about the past 5-6 months). No spacers.

I just started noticing this phenomenon. Now, I never got an alignment after the springs settled, since the car's been in hibernation mode up until now. Also of note, I had minor curb damage repaired to my driver's side front wheel several months ago. But it was very, very minor. I can't imagine my wheel not being straight; I can't imagine bad rotors. The car pulls straight. Coasts and accelerated smoothly. If I lost a wheel weight, I would assume I'd have more constant symptoms???

Anyways, anyone have any thought?

Thanks in advance

-c
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      04-03-2017, 09:53 AM   #2
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Only thing i can think of would be warped rotors. Good luck!
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      04-03-2017, 11:07 AM   #3
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Probably pad deposits. Did you run your stock brakes fairly hard and get them hot? The OEM pads don't stand up well to heavy canyon carving/track use and you can get an uneven pad wear layer on the rotors which makes the surface wavy and feel like you have a warped rotor.
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      04-03-2017, 01:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Probably pad deposits. Did you run your stock brakes fairly hard and get them hot? The OEM pads don't stand up well to heavy canyon carving/track use and you can get an uneven pad wear layer on the rotors which makes the surface wavy and feel like you have a warped rotor.
Eh, I have yet to track this car, and I don't consider my daily driving style to be too spirited, but it does feel like a warped rotor.

First things first; I need to get an alignment. Then we'll go from there.

Thanks for the input. I'll post with any updates

-c
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      04-03-2017, 05:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pup73 View Post
Eh, I have yet to track this car, and I don't consider my daily driving style to be too spirited, but it does feel like a warped rotor.

First things first; I need to get an alignment. Then we'll go from there.

Thanks for the input. I'll post with any updates

-c
Very unlikely you warped a rotor if you did not even drive hard enough to get pad deposits on the stock pads.

Alignment should have nothing to do with vibration. If it's under braking only it's the brakes. If it's vibrating all the time or at certain speeds it's probably a wheel balance issue.
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      04-03-2017, 05:30 PM   #6
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Interesting,

I just had my front rotors and pads changed after feeling the same vibrations. I did go to the track but I am still surprised that the rotors wrapped this easily.

BMW dealer only mentioned everything overheated and needed to be changed.
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      04-04-2017, 07:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_lzn View Post
Interesting,

I just had my front rotors and pads changed after feeling the same vibrations. I did go to the track but I am still surprised that the rotors wrapped this easily.

BMW dealer only mentioned everything overheated and needed to be changed.
That is interesting. Just curious, was the covered under warranty?

-c
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      04-04-2017, 08:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_lzn View Post
Interesting,

I just had my front rotors and pads changed after feeling the same vibrations. I did go to the track but I am still surprised that the rotors wrapped this easily.

BMW dealer only mentioned everything overheated and needed to be changed.
I'm fairly sure the rotors aren't warped, you probably got oem pad deposits all over your rotors so they replaced them since BMW doesn't turn rotors. I bet you got a one time good will replacement.

I was talking to a brake engineer for a major supplier at COTA and he told me modern iron discs are very difficult to actually warp. I thought I warped my rotors but ended up being pad deposits from running stock and then track pads on top causing an uneven wear layer.

I used a rotor hone to clean off all the deposits and re-bedded pads and it was fine.
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      04-04-2017, 11:49 AM   #9
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You guys are most likely right. My dealer changed everything for free without even asking. My technician only mentioned that the brakes overheated, he never truly said they were warped. They changed them for free but made it clear that this is not covered by the warranty and they would not do this every time.

So this leads to this question : how to avoid pads deposit?

I did respect all my cooling laps, did not use the parking brake, ...
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      04-04-2017, 05:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_lzn View Post
You guys are most likely right. My dealer changed everything for free without even asking. My technician only mentioned that the brakes overheated, he never truly said they were warped. They changed them for free but made it clear that this is not covered by the warranty and they would not do this every time.

So this leads to this question : how to avoid pads deposit?

I did respect all my cooling laps, did not use the parking brake, ...
If you are going to Track it is probably best to change to a more suitable track pad. On cool down lap try not to touch brake at all. If you then change back out to road pads you may need to seek advice on whether you can find a similar compatible pad (most likely from same manufacturer) so that the sacrificial layers left on the rotors are compatible between track and road pads. Sounds like a hassle but little things like this can make a difference.
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      04-05-2017, 06:29 PM   #11
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I will for sure upgrade to new pads for my next track event. Not quite sure yet which brand I will go with. Pagids seem to be the most popular ones but I am still looking at all options, including pads that are not as track oriented like the Porterfileds R4s
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      05-06-2017, 06:03 PM   #12
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'Warped' rotors is pretty much a misnomer these days. Consider it synonymous with pad deposits.

Ive been able to smooth things out often times by rebedding.
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      05-07-2017, 09:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_lzn View Post
You guys are most likely right. My dealer changed everything for free without even asking. My technician only mentioned that the brakes overheated, he never truly said they were warped. They changed them for free but made it clear that this is not covered by the warranty and they would not do this every time.

So this leads to this question : how to avoid pads deposit?

I did respect all my cooling laps, did not use the parking brake, ...
Not to exceed the operating temp of the pads is one way or go to a track only type of pad like someone else has mentioned.
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      05-07-2017, 11:34 PM   #14
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My bet on the OP's issue is a flat spot on the tires from sitting around all winter. Maybe a bad wheel bearing too. It doesn't take much of a curbing to ruin wheel bearings.
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      05-08-2017, 07:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangspeed View Post
My bet on the OP's issue is a flat spot on the tires from sitting around all winter. Maybe a bad wheel bearing too. It doesn't take much of a curbing to ruin wheel bearings.
Those are both interesting thoughts. I'm due for service very soon, and will mention all the above.

Thanks alot

-c
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      05-20-2017, 08:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
I'm fairly sure the rotors aren't warped, you probably got oem pad deposits all over your rotors so they replaced them since BMW doesn't turn rotors.
Incorrect, since about 1/17 we now turn rotors. But typically not drilled rotors because of the bmw approved on car brake lathes we use.
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      05-21-2017, 07:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_lzn View Post
Interesting,

I just had my front rotors and pads changed after feeling the same vibrations. I did go to the track but I am still surprised that the rotors wrapped this easily.

BMW dealer only mentioned everything overheated and needed to be changed.
I'm fairly sure the rotors aren't warped, you probably got oem pad deposits all over your rotors so they replaced them since BMW doesn't turn rotors. I bet you got a one time good will replacement.

I was talking to a brake engineer for a major supplier at COTA and he told me modern iron discs are very difficult to actually warp. I thought I warped my rotors but ended up being pad deposits from running stock and then track pads on top causing an uneven wear layer.

I used a rotor hone to clean off all the deposits and re-bedded pads and it was fine.
I have a pad deposit issue now on my M2. What exactly is the procedure to fix this problem short of throwing new parts at the car?
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      05-21-2017, 09:26 AM   #18
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+1 very interested to hear some solutions
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      09-09-2019, 01:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pup73 View Post
Those are both interesting thoughts. I'm due for service very soon, and will mention all the above.

Thanks alot

-c
Did you figure this out? I have same issue on 2018 M2 with only 12,500 miles on it.
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      09-10-2019, 12:35 AM   #20
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The solution is to keep the track pads in and drive with them for an extra week or so after your track day. When they are cool they become more abrasive and will scrub the uneven deposits off the rotors.

Bring your ear plugs.

You can also use sand paper and scrub off the surface deposits that way.
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      09-10-2019, 02:08 PM   #21
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Gents,

You're dealing with uneven pad deposits. The videos below should help you work your way through this issue, and help prevent it it in the future.

If the deposits are very mild, just driving around with the brakes cold could clean them up.

If not, cleaning up the discs with a scotch brite pad could do the trick.

Or, if you have a set of track/race pads on hand, install them and drive around cold. That will peel the pad transfer layer off in a hurry (as in the video below).

If that doesn't work, the next resort would be getting the discs resurfaced on a brake lathe.

If the deposits are really bad, they may not be repairable. That is usually not the case in our experience however. One of the above typically gets the job done and eliminates your judder.



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      09-10-2019, 11:21 PM   #22
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As someone who just finally cleaned off pad deposits by running race pads for a few weeks I would think it is almost certainly pad deposits from heavy braking ie track time or super heavy sport driving. How many miles were on your car when you picked it up?
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