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      03-16-2017, 12:56 PM   #1
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B58 Versus M3 Engine?

I was wondering if someone could tell me the real differences between the M3's engine and the B58?

Is it just a tune and a larger turbocharger? They both have the same 3.0L no?

I just want to know because I plan on getting the Dinan +MPPK over the next year or two and wondering if this is well within the engines range of power or if my engine/transmission is going to poop out on me 100,000 miles in because of this.

Thanks!
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      03-16-2017, 01:14 PM   #2
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S55 has 2 turbos

Bottom line short of it is the S55 going to have higher rated internal parts & surrounding systems to better cope with the heat and pressures involved with more HP & torque.
Many of B58/340's internals also have high ratings but not all & its the weaker point in the chain which fails eventually the system.. the M3 got a stronger chain overall built for it.
Cant expect to overstress the system and not have the reliability not take a hit longterm
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      03-16-2017, 01:28 PM   #3
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Is there any way to fix this?/parts I could install to help prevent the wear? Also this whole time I thought my "twinscroll" was a twin turbo/two turbos
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      03-16-2017, 01:32 PM   #4
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They are totally different engines and blocks. B58 has a closed deck design and I believe the s55 has an open deck design. I also believe the s55 is derived from the n55, but obviously with many upgrades such as cooling, 2 turbos, chains, belts, internals, etc.

My belief is that BMW is trying to use up the last of their inventory that was made for the n55/s55 engines and in the future will move forward with the b58 design in a large portion of their performance engines and M lines. But obviously with many other changes and upgrades, just based on the B-line engines. Could be wrong, just my opinion.

I'm no expert by any means, so don't quote me on any of this.
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      03-16-2017, 01:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
Is there any way to fix this?/parts I could install to help prevent the wear? Also this whole time I thought my "twinscroll" was a twin turbo/two turbos
Quick fix...trade in for an M3
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      03-16-2017, 01:36 PM   #6
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M3 is built off the old 6 cylinder block, as above, the 340 motor is a different architecture.

BMW is famous for easing in a new motor while still using the old ones, again as above. . Heck, the 4 series didn't get the 340 motor right off.
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      03-16-2017, 01:48 PM   #7
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its off the N55 but they filled it in and now its closed deck.
I believe its also air-water intercooler and many of the features are similar to the B58's but its got higher rated parts for sure.. to upgrade all the parts to match the M3 (if it can even be done and tuned properly together) would prob take more time and $$$ than it takes to just buy an M3.. beyond straight-line power M3 handles like a sportscar

what not enuf power for ya? for now I find stock torque more than adequate for dd in sport mode
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      03-16-2017, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
its off the N55 but they filled it in and now its closed deck.
I believe its also air-water intercooler and many of the features are similar to the B58's but its got higher rated parts for sure.. to upgrade all the parts to match the M3 (if it can even be done and tuned properly together) would prob take more time and $$$ than it takes to just buy an M3.. beyond straight-line power M3 handles like a sportscar

what not enuf power for ya? for now I find stock torque more than adequate for dd in sport mode
I would prefer less turbo lag in the low rpms (I know ppl say its smooth but I feel a lot of engine hesitancy in first/second gear). Also, I FULLY LOADED (which includes track package) this bad boy to like a $64,000 MSRP. So I am not looking to do that in M3 form. Plus I want AWD for ski trips etc (hence no M3). Therefore, I am looking for ways to increase performance and get as close as possible.
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      03-16-2017, 04:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
I would prefer less turbo lag in the low rpms (I know ppl say its smooth but I feel a lot of engine hesitancy in first/second gear). Also, I FULLY LOADED (which includes track package) this bad boy to like a $64,000 MSRP. So I am not looking to do that in M3 form. Plus I want AWD for ski trips etc (hence no M3). Therefore, I am looking for ways to increase performance and get as close as possible.
Get the MPPSK or similar tune.
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      03-16-2017, 04:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by oarnura View Post
Get the MPPSK or similar tune.
I plan on getting the MPPSK and Dinan once the piggyback is released. That being said I just want to know what other part(s) would be wise to upgrade in either the engine or transmission etc. to handle the increased power output.
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      03-16-2017, 06:08 PM   #11
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If you are getting the Dinan Elite and the MPPSK then you are under warranty either by BMW or Dinan for your entire new car factory warranty.. whats to worry about?
If you are worried about stressing out your rated parts then dont slap any tunes on..
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      03-16-2017, 07:11 PM   #12
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Please correct me if I'm wrong. s55 is closed deck design, although N55 is open deck
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      03-16-2017, 07:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
If you are getting the Dinan Elite and the MPPSK then you are under warranty either by BMW or Dinan for your entire new car factory warranty.. whats to worry about?
If you are worried about stressing out your rated parts then dont slap any tunes on..
I'm not worried about warranty. I want my car to last 150,000+ miles since I bought it new (not leased/purchased used), therefore I would like to "tune responsibly" you could say. E.g. maybe I could upgrade X part in addition to to the tune etc...
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      03-16-2017, 08:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
I'm not worried about warranty. I want my car to last 150,000+ miles since I bought it new (not leased/purchased used), therefore I would like to "tune responsibly" you could say. E.g. maybe I could upgrade X part in addition to to the tune etc...
As someone mentioned before the M3 has stronger engine internals to handle the power and make a reliable engine. I'm not sure what is available out there for the b58 and how much is required, tearing into the engine is a costly thing. The b58 is new, i doubt anyone really has the answer to how much power you can actually squeeze out of it reliably and for how long.
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      03-16-2017, 08:11 PM   #15
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Then I would say stay stock or go with MPPSK as a mild tune take care of maintenance religiously.. 6,000mi oil changes .. tranny oil change every 50,000mi .. change diff oil into schedule as well
I mean its no surprise MPPSK torque of 369 ftlb on the auto stays within torque ratings of say the ZF 8HP50 rated at 369 ftlb.. its purposely staying within rated #s
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      03-16-2017, 08:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
I was wondering if someone could tell me the real differences between the M3's engine and the B58?

Is it just a tune and a larger turbocharger? They both have the same 3.0L no?

I just want to know because I plan on getting the Dinan +MPPK over the next year or two and wondering if this is well within the engines range of power or if my engine/transmission is going to poop out on me 100,000 miles in because of this.

Thanks!
Biggest difference is twin turbo on the M3/M4 and single twin scroll on the B58. M3 also has crazy cooling systems (BMW leaned from their mistake with the N54 in terms of cooling)

I am also sure there are much more internal differences / tolerances in terms of design and strength of components.

Mike
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      03-16-2017, 09:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbie340 View Post
I would prefer less turbo lag in the low rpms (I know ppl say its smooth but I feel a lot of engine hesitancy in first/second gear). Also, I FULLY LOADED (which includes track package) this bad boy to like a $64,000 MSRP. So I am not looking to do that in M3 form. Plus I want AWD for ski trips etc (hence no M3). Therefore, I am looking for ways to increase performance and get as close as possible.
Get the Active Autowerke piggyback. They ramp the boost up aggressively at 2-3kRPM (you'll be pulling M power during that time), and then it tapers to redline due to the fueling limitations.

Their non-linear boost curve is a blast to drive. You get into the throttle at that range, and then it exponentially accelerates.
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      03-16-2017, 09:52 PM   #18
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Just get the MPPSK, i have it installed in my 340i and it a freaking rocketship that smokes 90% of the cars on the road.
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      03-16-2017, 09:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
Then I would say stay stock or go with MPPSK as a mild tune take care of maintenance religiously.. 6,000mi oil changes .. tranny oil change every 50,000mi .. change diff oil into schedule as well
I mean its no surprise MPPSK torque of 369 ftlb on the auto stays within torque ratings of say the ZF 8HP50 rated at 369 ftlb.. its purposely staying within rated #s
This is good to know. Based on all the above I think I will just go with the MPPSK and avoid any piggybacking for now/getting carried away (until someone tinkers with the engine itself more per toybms comment). Also jaghave sounds good, I am looking forward to it.

Maybe 80,000 miles down the line or so I will slap on some extra juice...

Thanks for all of your responses!!
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      03-16-2017, 11:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD07 View Post
They are totally different engines and blocks. B58 has a closed deck design and I believe the s55 has an open deck design. I also believe the s55 is derived from the n55, but obviously with many upgrades such as cooling, 2 turbos, chains, belts, internals, etc.

My belief is that BMW is trying to use up the last of their inventory that was made for the n55/s55 engines and in the future will move forward with the b58 design in a large portion of their performance engines and M lines. But obviously with many other changes and upgrades, just based on the B-line engines. Could be wrong, just my opinion.

I'm no expert by any means, so don't quote me on any of this.
Wow, this just goes to show you how bad information from the internet can be...
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      03-17-2017, 12:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KD07 View Post
They are totally different engines and blocks. B58 has a closed deck design and I believe the s55 has an open deck design. I also believe the s55 is derived from the n55, but obviously with many upgrades such as cooling, 2 turbos, chains, belts, internals, etc.

My belief is that BMW is trying to use up the last of their inventory that was made for the n55/s55 engines and in the future will move forward with the b58 design in a large portion of their performance engines and M lines. But obviously with many other changes and upgrades, just based on the B-line engines. Could be wrong, just my opinion.

I'm no expert by any means, so don't quote me on any of this.
Wow, this just goes to show you how bad information from the internet can be...
Lol now was that comment really necessary? Did I not make sure to reiterate how unsure I was? And besides saying the s55 was an open deck design, what did I mention that was so crazy and ludicrous? Which has been clarified above the s55 is a closed deck, differentiating it immensely from the n55. On top of the complimentary components which I mentioned...

So Mr. Expert. Please respond with your expert information to follow your comment rather than leave your reply at that. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem?
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      03-17-2017, 12:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD07 View Post
Lol now was that comment really necessary? Did I not make sure to reiterate how unsure I was? And besides saying the s55 was an open deck design, what did I mention that was so crazy and ludicrous? Which has been clarified above the s55 is a closed deck, differentiating it immensely from the n55. On top of the complimentary components which I mentioned...

So Mr. Expert. Please respond with your expert information to follow your comment rather than leave your reply at that. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem?
definitely not meant to be personally insulting but if you honestly have no idea, why post a reply? What exactly do you want to know? Happy to provide input on the S55.
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