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      01-17-2017, 02:00 PM   #1
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Square set up and MDM intervention

I would like to track my M2 in sport plus (MDM mode) without turning DSC off.

For those who tracked the M2 with a square set up, have you tried running in MDM mode on track? Is MDM intervening more and cutting power because the square set up has the same diameter tires front and back?

I am saying this because the M2 rear tires diameter are approximately 2.5% larger than the front. Based on the information on the F82 forum running the same diameter all around will increase MDM/DSC intervention (as it thinks the rear slips).

I did research the F82 forum and found the following thread that contains valuable information.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...ight=staggered

In summary, if you tracked your M2 with a square set up in MDM mode, please share your experience, are the nannies always intervening?

Thanks
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      01-18-2017, 11:43 AM   #2
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My 2 cents if you're not comfortable tracking the car with DSC off you probably don't need to spend your money on wheels and tires but more driving time Don't mean that in any offensive way.
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      01-18-2017, 01:22 PM   #3
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No offense taken.
My intention is to run in MDM mode for the first year with the car and then decide DSC off or not. I would ideally like to run a square set up so I can rotate.
Based on previous experience, running the MPSS on track is not an option (Sidewall too soft for the BMW suspension causing premature front tire wear after few events) so will need to spend money on tires at least...

Last edited by Hossel19; 01-18-2017 at 01:36 PM..
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      01-18-2017, 03:54 PM   #4
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If you set up the suspension with camber plates , don't over drive the car, and have the correct starting tire pressures, the MPSS tires will be fine.
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      01-20-2017, 10:42 AM   #5
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How low can you drop cold tire pressures and not get a TPMS message which I hear will not allow you to keep DSC off?
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      01-20-2017, 11:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
If you set up the suspension with camber plates , don't over drive the car, and have the correct starting tire pressures, the MPSS tires will be fine.
I had camber plates and updated suspension on my 335 and I am trying to avoid that on the M2.
Even with proper tire pressure my experience with Yoko AD08 and Dunlop StarSpec is significantly better than MPSS on the track from a durability perspective.
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      01-20-2017, 01:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f87chas View Post
How low can you drop cold tire pressures and not get a TPMS message which I hear will not allow you to keep DSC off?
If you reset the TPMS, it shouldn't trip the warning light, it's only an issue if you don't set the starting point at a low pressure.
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      01-20-2017, 03:36 PM   #8
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New Info - Seems DSC is adaptive and should not intervene more with a square set up!

I keep digging to find an answer to my question in the original post and I found the information below posted on the F82 forum.

Seems like DSC is meant to be adaptive and should not intervene more on the track with a square set up vs staggered... Anyone has experienced this?

Extract from the F82 forum:
I recently switched my car to a square setup. However, before I did this, I had the opportunity to have a few beers after dinner with the BMW engineer who was in charge of DSC programming and development for the F8X platform. (This was while I was at the Ring for the annual BMW "invitational"). Anyway, I had heard thisrumor and took the opportunity as to ask "Philip" if there was any DSC issues with running non-standard tire sizes or a square setup. He absolutely assured me that DSC will automatically learn and adapt to whatever tire sizes you are running. Additionally, He said it can take up to 70km of accumulated straight driving in order for DSC to fully complete the adjustment. Based on the info he provided, I decided to go to a square setup to help balance tire wear.

Source:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...p#post20361139
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      01-20-2017, 05:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossel19 View Post
I keep digging to find an answer to my question in the original post and I found the information below posted on the F82 forum.

Seems like DSC is meant to be adaptive and should not intervene more on the track with a square set up vs staggered... Anyone has experienced this?

Extract from the F82 forum:
I recently switched my car to a square setup. However, before I did this, I had the opportunity to have a few beers after dinner with the BMW engineer who was in charge of DSC programming and development for the F8X platform. (This was while I was at the Ring for the annual BMW "invitational"). Anyway, I had heard thisrumor and took the opportunity as to ask "Philip" if there was any DSC issues with running non-standard tire sizes or a square setup. He absolutely assured me that DSC will automatically learn and adapt to whatever tire sizes you are running. Additionally, He said it can take up to 70km of accumulated straight driving in order for DSC to fully complete the adjustment. Based on the info he provided, I decided to go to a square setup to help balance tire wear.

Source:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...p#post20361139
That would be great news! Can you confirm if you have TPMS, as I was told Canadian M2 do not have TPMS.
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      01-21-2017, 06:13 PM   #10
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I can confirm no TPMS on my M2. My understanding is Canadian models use the ABS sensor in some way to detect tire pressure issues. Not sure how exactly it works however... Had the same thing on my 335 and tire pressure never caused an issue.
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      01-21-2017, 10:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossel19 View Post
I can confirm no TPMS on my M2. My understanding is Canadian models use the ABS sensor in some way to detect tire pressure issues. Not sure how exactly it works however... Had the same thing on my 335 and tire pressure never caused an issue.
My Audi had it. Measures the rotations of each wheel over distance. Essentially looking for changes in the relative diameter of the wheel.
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      01-21-2017, 11:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKosherStogie View Post
My 2 cents if you're not comfortable tracking the car with DSC off you probably don't need to spend your money on wheels and tires but more driving time Don't mean that in any offensive way.
I tracked my C5 Z06 ( 500rwh) with all nannies off, so when I got my M2 I wanted to get familiar with it before running naked. I had it programmed for the euro MDM , added camber plates, track pads and went to AMP and Road Atlanta. I ran it aggressively and did not feel the DSC interfere in MDM. I then let a pro driver, Jade Buford , run it a few sessions....he said he could barely feel the DSC, but left it on the whole time. His data was wicked fast with the car pulling 1+g in turns and 1g in braking on the stock Contis. My conclusion is that the Euro MDM should work for at least 75% of the drivers and 100% in the rain!
As an aside, I have driven the new C7 corvette and it is crap on track unless it is in full race mode.
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      01-22-2017, 12:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossel19 View Post
No offense taken.
My intention is to run in MDM mode for the first year with the car and then decide DSC off or not. I would ideally like to run a square set up so I can rotate.
Based on previous experience, running the MPSS on track is not an option (Sidewall too soft for the BMW suspension causing premature front tire wear after few events) so will need to spend money on tires at least...
I ran pss for 4 events. You can go plenty fast on them. That's why I was saying mayb not need all the extra wheels and tires if you're not comfortable with dsc off.
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      01-22-2017, 04:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
I tracked my C5 Z06 ( 500rwh) with all nannies off, so when I got my M2 I wanted to get familiar with it before running naked. I had it programmed for the euro MDM , added camber plates, track pads and went to AMP and Road Atlanta. I ran it aggressively and did not feel the DSC interfere in MDM. I then let a pro driver, Jade Buford , run it a few sessions....he said he could barely feel the DSC, but left it on the whole time. His data was wicked fast with the car pulling 1+g in turns and 1g in braking on the stock Contis. My conclusion is that the Euro MDM should work for at least 75% of the drivers and 100% in the rain!
As an aside, I have driven the new C7 corvette and it is crap on track unless it is in full race mode.
Thanks for the feedback TWT, much appreciated.
So Euro MDM is very permissive and should not intervene in my case as long as I keep running a staggered set up. This is a positive sign. I will look into how to get Euro MDM.
Now I need to figure out if I can have the same thing while running a square set up.
I am going with track pads / wheels+tires. want to avoid camber plates.
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      01-22-2017, 04:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd2002 View Post
My Audi had it. Measures the rotations of each wheel over distance. Essentially looking for changes in the relative diameter of the wheel.
Thanks nd2002,
If this is the case I wonder if running a square set up on the M2 with 265-35-18 will cause TPMS issues since the diameter is roughly 2.5% less then OEM.
In case it does, I assume resetting the TMPS after installing the square set up should fix this.
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      01-22-2017, 05:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossel19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd2002 View Post
My Audi had it. Measures the rotations of each wheel over distance. Essentially looking for changes in the relative diameter of the wheel.
Thanks nd2002,
If this is the case I wonder if running a square set up on the M2 with 265-35-18 will cause TPMS issues since the diameter is roughly 2.5% less then OEM.
In case it does, I assume resetting the TMPS after installing the square set up should fix this.
Yup, it should measure each wheel relative to the others to detect pressure differences, so you should be good as long as you do a reset.
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      01-22-2017, 10:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossel19 View Post
Thanks for the feedback TWT, much appreciated.
So Euro MDM is very permissive and should not intervene in my case as long as I keep running a staggered set up. This is a positive sign. I will look into how to get Euro MDM.
Now I need to figure out if I can have the same thing while running a square set up.
I am going with track pads / wheels+tires. want to avoid camber plates.
I have also considered these issues. I am putting on AD08R staggered in factory sizes. I assure you that with euro MDM ( easy to recode) and track pads your car will do virtually everything you could want from a street/track car. Just enjoy it and get comfortable with it.....once you feel you really need more car you can add coilovers, camber plates, wheels and tires. My car in near stock form was faster than 80% of the cars on track....and was soooo easy to drive .
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      01-23-2017, 01:44 AM   #18
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I have a square set up with 18x9.5 wheels and 265 tires. As soon as I tracked the car I noticed intervention on turn exit on power. Car notices and traction light comes on and when you go to get on power it intervenes and cuts out. Feels like fuel starvation. After the first session turned all modes off. If you feel comfortable I would recommend
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      01-23-2017, 07:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swebster View Post
I have a square set up with 18x9.5 wheels and 265 tires. As soon as I tracked the car I noticed intervention on turn exit on power. Car notices and traction light comes on and when you go to get on power it intervenes and cuts out. Feels like fuel starvation. After the first session turned all modes off. If you feel comfortable I would recommend
Thanks for the feedback swebster

Two quick questions:
1) Did you track your first session in sport plus (MDM) when you felt it intervening?
2) Did you get the chance to drive a consecutive 70km (45 miles) with the square set up before trying it on track (based on the information in post #8 above)
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      01-23-2017, 07:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
I have also considered these issues. I am putting on AD08R staggered in factory sizes. I assure you that with euro MDM ( easy to recode) and track pads your car will do virtually everything you could want from a street/track car. Just enjoy it and get comfortable with it.....once you feel you really need more car you can add coilovers, camber plates, wheels and tires. My car in near stock form was faster than 80% of the cars on track....and was soooo easy to drive .
If I can't do square set up and MDM I will go with staggered AD08R probably 255/275.
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      01-23-2017, 08:55 AM   #21
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So quick check on the whole MDM thing. When I read the US manual and mode tables, selecting MDM (aka "traction" mode) allows wheel slip, but also sets steering and throttle mapping to comfort settings

Am I reading it wrong/missing something?

I'm a DSC-off guy at the track, but these are not combinations I imagine would be desirable very often...like only in the snow.

If there's a way to get MDM and still keep sport plus steering and throttle, I'd like to hear about it.

Thoughts?

Last edited by rjn; 01-23-2017 at 09:02 AM..
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      01-30-2017, 08:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossel19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
If you set up the suspension with camber plates , don't over drive the car, and have the correct starting tire pressures, the MPSS tires will be fine.
I had camber plates and updated suspension on my 335 and I am trying to avoid that on the M2.
Even with proper tire pressure my experience with Yoko AD08 and Dunlop StarSpec is significantly better than MPSS on the track from a durability perspective.
"
Yoko AD08 and Dunlop StarSpec is significantly better than MPSS on the track from a durability perspective."


Agree 100 percent.

The AD08 is significantly better than the MPSS with regard to hot weather track use. At temps
Above 80 degrees the MPSS can chunk badly where as the AD08 will be in its element.
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