[badfish]

I called Earthquake today to ask them about the frame for the 8" SWS. They passed me directly to the engineers because the tech support guy was out. I talked to a really cool guy there who knew the sub inside and out and was part of the design team.

My question was why do the pictures on the website show a round subwoofer when the sub actually has an oval/square shape. All the 8" are this shape. He said that they actually used that basket design because they were working with BMW. I told him that's exactly why I called. He said the 8" will drop right into the BMW underseat box and they actually designed that box, which he said vents to the frame, for Harmon Kardon. The OEM subwoofer is just a lesser version of the SWS. If you look at the SWS box recommendations, the slot loaded box is very similar to the BMW sub enclosures.

So I asked him about the SWS vs the OEM sub. He said the SWS uses the more advanced design and is better in every way, better than even the premium sub. He mentioned that if you are installing the sub, do not press on the aluminum cap as that actually functions as the heatsink.

He was very talkative and candid and was really happy to be talking to an end user. He told me that I might want to wait for the new 8" SWS that will come in a 2 ohm voicecoil. It is designed to drop into the box and be more efficient than the 4 ohm version but it's meant to work with the factory amp. So since I'm using an aftermarket amp to drive the sub, I'll just go with the currently available 4 ohm as there will be no benefit for me. Anyone looking to use the OEM amp but just upgrade the subs should wait for this new 2 ohm version as since the impedance is half, the power it will receive is nearly double from the OEM amp. They just finished the design on it and shipped a sample to Germany today, it's coming out soon.

So there it is in a nutshell. Kudos to everyone using the SWS 8s.

[3onDubs]

Very nice piece of information...


Any idea how these would sound dropped into a non-logic 7 system? (i.e. base system)

[badfish]

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

Any idea how these would sound dropped into a non-logic 7 system? (i.e. base system)

That I am not sure of. Because the base system is powered by the head unit which puts out a measly 15 watts at 4 ohm. I don't know what the impedance of the OEM sub is but if it's more than 2 ohm, you could cause the headunit to overheat as the new SWS subs will be 2 ohm. Hifi and Logic 7 will see a benefit. With the base system what I'd probably do is at least add an amplifier and go with the 4 ohm subs.

[3onDubs]

^^^ I see...thanks again. I didn't know that about the head unit in the E90. In the E46, both base and HK systems used an amp in the trunk (at least US versions...european versions were powered by head unit).

[Technic]

Originally Posted by badfish

That I am not sure of. Because the base system is powered by the head unit which puts out a measly 15 watts at 4 ohm. I don't know what the impedance of the OEM sub is but if it's more than 2 ohm, you could cause the headunit to overheat as the new SWS subs will be 2 ohm. Hifi and Logic 7 will see a benefit. With the base system what I'd probably do is at least add an amplifier and go with the 4 ohm subs.

I'm confused... do you have a US E9x? If so, all the USA E9x sound systems are driven by OEM amps, be the standard HiFi in the 328i and the M3, or the Top HiFi (Logic7 standard in the 335i or the Dirac optional in the M3), and not by the OEM HU. Is the Euro E9x that have a base sound system that is driven by the OEM HU (6 speakers).

The HiFi underseat subs are in fact 2 ohms, in the Top HiFi they are 4 ohms. So this new SWS-8 at 2 ohms is the perfect replacement for the base HiFi OEM system in the USA.

[eekthecat]

Originally Posted by Technic

I'm confused... do you have a US E9x? If so, all the USA E9x sound systems are driven by OEM amps, be the standard HiFi in the 328i and the M3, or the Top HiFi (Logic7 standard in the 335i or the Dirac optional in the M3), and not by the OEM HU. Is the Euro E9x that have a base sound system that is driven by the OEM HU (6 speakers).

The HiFi underseat subs are in fact 2 ohms, in the Top HiFi they are 4 ohms. So this new SWS-8 at 2 ohms is the perfect replacement for the base HiFi OEM system in the USA.

Okay, now *I'm* confused too. I'll keep looking for a drop-in replacement (maybe no extra amp, even) for my Logic7

[Technic]

Originally Posted by eekthecat

Okay, now *I'm* confused too. I'll keep looking for a drop-in replacement (maybe no extra amp, even) for my Logic7

Top HiFi = Logic7 in the 335, the Dirac DSP in the M3

Your Logic7 uses OEM 4 ohms underseat subs, so the current SWS-8 (4 ohms) is the correct replacement to match the OEM amp output.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by Technic

I'm confused... do you have a US E9x? If so, all the USA E9x sound systems are driven by OEM amps, be the standard HiFi in the 328i and the M3, or the Top HiFi (Logic7 standard in the 335i or the Dirac optional in the M3), and not by the OEM HU. Is the Euro E9x that have a base sound system that is driven by the OEM HU (6 speakers).

The HiFi underseat subs are in fact 2 ohms, in the Top HiFi they are 4 ohms. So this new SWS-8 at 2 ohms is the perfect replacement for the base HiFi OEM system in the USA.

I have a US E92 M3 which came base with Hifi. I believe you are correct then, I did a quick lookup when I saw the question original posed and found a PDF which indicated that the headunit drove the speakers on the base system. It could have well been for Euro.

Sorry for the confusion, I thought base meant that most basic system which was not amp powered according to that PDF. I don't know all the differences between the Euro and US specs. Thanks for the correction.

[JO3]

Originally Posted by Technic

Top HiFi = Logic7 in the 335, the Dirac DSP in the M3

Your Logic7 uses OEM 4 ohms underseat subs, so the current SWS-8 (4 ohms) is the correct replacement to match the OEM amp output.

Has anyone actually tried replacing the Logic7 sub with the SWS-8 without adding an amp? How does it sound? I'm interested in upgrading the sub, but don't want to mess with adding an additional amp.

[benton0311]

The only trouble I see with the Earthquake is that it models very poorly in a small sealed enclosure. The small sealed under seat box handicaps its low-end output and causes a huge bump around 80hz and then it drops severely after around 150hz or so. This is less than ideal if the subwoofers are run from 30-500hz like some of the factory literature I've seen says.

The Earthquake really wants to be run infinite baffle as in a door or rear deck. They'd be incredible subs for a rear deck installation - perfectly flat response to almost 30 Hz.

On the other hand, there really aren't any other drop in solutions short of the Aurasound shallow 8" which is a mid-bass and not a subwoofer. The Pioneers don't drop-in and all of the shallow Morels I've seen are too big.

You could probably run the Earthquakes and drop about 4-6 dB from 80hz on the EQ, raise 200Hz, and then turn the bass up with should bring up the 50hz range thats naturally rolled off. I think a lot of people who hear them will hear that huge 80hz bump and mistake that for quality low-bass.

Here's the gain plot, green is in a 5.0L sealed enclosure and yellow is IB:
http://ims.hspn.com/pic.php?u=3134yPt&i=4528

[Technic]

Originally Posted by benton0311

The only trouble I see with the Earthquake is that it models very poorly in a small sealed enclosure. The small sealed under seat box handicaps its low-end output and causes a huge bump around 80hz and then it drops severely after around 150hz or so. This is less than ideal if the subwoofers are run from 30-500hz like some of the factory literature I've seen says.

The Earthquake really wants to be run infinite baffle as in a door or rear deck. They'd be incredible subs for a rear deck installation - perfectly flat response to almost 30 Hz.

On the other hand, there really aren't any other drop in solutions short of the Aurasound shallow 8" which is a mid-bass and not a subwoofer. The Pioneers don't drop-in and all of the shallow Morels I've seen are too big.

You could probably run the Earthquakes and drop about 4-6 dB from 80hz on the EQ, raise 200Hz, and then turn the bass up with should bring up the 50hz range thats naturally rolled off. I think a lot of people who hear them will hear that huge 80hz bump and mistake that for quality low-bass.

Here's the gain plot, green is in a 5.0L sealed enclosure and yellow is IB:
http://ims.hspn.com/pic.php?u=3134yPt&i=4528

That 5L sealed enclosure is the real problem...

I tried that 5L (.1736 cu.ft., SWS-8 recommended enclosure size in the manual) sealed enclosure and it is simply not the right size for this sub. The bass was just not there, considering that it was supposed to provide "deep bass from the shollowest space" using that specific enclosure size.

So far, the best performance has been using a 14 - 17L (.5 - .6 cu.ft.) sealed enclosure. Really nice sub bass down to 30Hz with up to 200W RMS (maximum is 150W RMS). Because the OEM sub enclosure is actually not sealed -it is ported into the door sills- the SWS-8 response should be similar to a much bigger sealed enclosure than .17 with the right amount of power.



However, I don't think that any of the OEM amps, except perhaps the Dirac DSP (825W max) amp, have the power necessary to really get these subs going in any enclosure type. At least they need 100W RMS per to move the way they are supposed to move...

[3onDubs]

Originally Posted by Technic

I'm confused... do you have a US E9x? If so, all the USA E9x sound systems are driven by OEM amps, be the standard HiFi in the 328i and the M3, or the Top HiFi (Logic7 standard in the 335i or the Dirac optional in the M3), and not by the OEM HU. Is the Euro E9x that have a base sound system that is driven by the OEM HU (6 speakers).

The HiFi underseat subs are in fact 2 ohms, in the Top HiFi they are 4 ohms. So this new SWS-8 at 2 ohms is the perfect replacement for the base HiFi OEM system in the USA.

nice...

I'll definitely be in the market for the new 2 ohm in that case (don't want to spend too much money on amps/subs/speakers/wiring/dynamat/etc/etc....been there/done that too many times).

[badfish]

Originally Posted by benton0311

The only trouble I see with the Earthquake is that it models very poorly in a small sealed enclosure. The small sealed under seat box handicaps its low-end output and causes a huge bump around 80hz and then it drops severely after around 150hz or so.

The box under the seat is not sealed though the FR I'm sure will not be a flat line. However, replacing the OEM sub should yield improvement and if you had a good EQ on the sub, it can sound pretty good. As far as power handling on the subs, I've found that their recommended power limit is a very good guideline to follow. The 10" I ran in my NSX made some mechanical noise when being pushed just barely over recommended power rating.

[eekthecat]

Is there anybody in socal with the Earthquake SWS 8" upgrade on a Logic7 that would be willing to demo it for me?

[bsavic]

Some of the most interesting info on a sub-upgrade to-date! Subscribed

Savicbo

[3onDubs]

@badfish: just curious, did he mention a time line on when we can expect the new 2ohm to hit the market?

[bsavic]

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

@badfish: just curious, did he mention a time line on when we can expect the new 2ohm to hit the market?

+1?

Savicbo

[RM-6302]

I've got two SWS8's waiting to be installed. I thought that I would seal the under seat enclosure to get better (deeper) bass. I plan on a Soundstream Rubicon 1000-2 for power 2X200watts @ 4ohms. As I read the above posts, I now understand that I should, in fact, leave the ported (factory) configuration to get the best bass. Am I correct, or have I missed the point? Thanks.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

@badfish: just curious, did he mention a time line on when we can expect the new 2ohm to hit the market?

When he was talking to me he said "If you can wait a few weeks" but then he interrupted himself and asked if I was using an aftermarket amp. So since I'm using an aftermarket amp, he said just to get the 4 ohm.

I picked up 2 SWS 8's from my distributor today. Curious, what are you guys paying for these? I get them for $79 each, but that's from a distributor, not an audio shop. I think they have 7 more.

It also looks like there will be a small gap when the sub drops in where the plug is. When I put mine in, I'll figure a way to plug it up.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by RM-6302

I've got two SWS8's waiting to be installed. I thought that I would seal the under seat enclosure to get better (deeper) bass. I plan on a Soundstream Rubicon 1000-2 for power 2X200watts @ 4ohms. As I read the above posts, I now understand that I should, in fact, leave the ported (factory) configuration to get the best bass. Am I correct, or have I missed the point? Thanks.

Yes, leave it ported.

[3onDubs]

Originally Posted by badfish

When he was talking to me he said "If you can wait a few weeks" but then he interrupted himself and asked if I was using an aftermarket amp. So since I'm using an aftermarket amp, he said just to get the 4 ohm.

I picked up 2 SWS 8's from my distributor today. Curious, what are you guys paying for these? I get them for $79 each, but that's from a distributor, not an audio shop. I think they have 7 more.

It also looks like there will be a small gap when the sub drops in where the plug is. When I put mine in, I'll figure a way to plug it up.

Thanks


Don't know where i'll get it from yet...i'll most likely get it from a shop by my work since they'll do the install as well (does it involve removing the seat by any chance?) If not, I suppose I can install it myself (haven't looked under there yet).

[badfish]

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

Thanks


Don't know where i'll get it from yet...i'll most likely get it from a shop by my work since they'll do the install as well (does it involve removing the seat by any chance?) If not, I suppose I can install it myself (haven't looked under there yet).

Yes, but seat removal is easy. See this thread. It is something you can do yourself.