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      10-21-2016, 10:41 PM   #1
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BMW rep confirms 20:80 AWD system for F90 M5

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Claims Australian automotive news site, GoAuto, who were told by a BMW rep at the Melbourne premiere of the new 2017 BMW 5-series.


http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25805300168872

BMW’s new-generation 5 Series-based M5 super sedan will employ an advanced all-wheel-drive (AWD) system to handle a twin-turbocharged V8, targeted to produce about 450kW and more than 700Nm of torque.

Speaking exclusively to GoAuto at the Melbourne unveiling of the seventh-generation 5 Series, BMW Munich product expert Sven Arens confirmed that the new M5 will adopt a version BMW’s all-paw xDrive system, albeit with a heavy rear-axle bias, to handle increased performance.

“Yes, all-wheel-drive. 20:80 [torque] split,” he said.

While the new car will likely be able to vary that torque split ratio depending on traction, the new M5 will be the first full-fat M passenger car (excluding SUVs) in history to feature an all-wheel-drive powertrain and also points to where future M6, M3, M4 and M2 cars could be heading.

While purists will bemoan the shift away from rear-wheel-drive M passenger cars, Mr Arens justified the switch to AWD technology with the fact that BMW has simply reached the limits of two-wheel performance.

“Make the calculations yourself,” he said. “Engines have become so powerful. For a reasonable saloon car, the cut off is 700Nm of torque on two driven wheels.

“With the current M5 we are at 680Nm and thanks to the fact that we use Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres, it can get all the traction and all the power on the ground.

“If we are now stepping up to 600hp, which means we are going to go beyond the 700Nm of torque, only if you would use a [Michelin Pilot Sport] Cup 2 tyre would you be able to transfer that to the ground.

“But then it means your customer would come in every 5000km for new tyres. They won’t be very happy.”

Competing against the BMW M5 in the luxury super sedan segment will be the yet-to-be-revealed Mercedes-AMG E63, and the Audi RS6 – both of which can send power to all four corners.

Mr Arens referenced Mercedes-AMG models capable of producing 1000Nm of torque and the Dodge Charger and Challenger SRT Hellcat vehicles that peak at 880Nm as rear-drive cars that are not able to capitalise on their mountainous torque numbers.

“Look at what Mercedes does, in their cars that have 1000Nm it’s only available from 4th gear, its limited to 700Nm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear,” he said.

“So you need to cut it off, because otherwise it just turns into smoke. Look at the Hellcat, switch off the traction control system, and you’re not going anywhere.

“We have reached a point, for two-wheel-drive, the limit has been reached, the next step must be all-wheel drive.”

Mr Arens also spilled the beans on the engine powering the next M5, confirming various reports and rumours of an eight-cylinder motor.

“It is going to be a V8, obviously,” he said. “Double turbo. Modelled around 600 horsepower (447kW).”

The engine will likely be a tweaked carryover from the outgoing M5 – which uses a 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8 to produce up to 423kW of power and 690Nm of torque – but is expected to receive upgrades to engine management, cooling and the turbos for the increased grunt.

Zero to 100km/h figures are expected to be much better than the current M5’s 4.2 seconds and outperform the next-generation M550i xDrive’s 4.0s dash, putting it in the sub-four second category for the first time.

Estimated power figures put the upcoming M5 on par with the reported 600hp (447kW) of the upcoming 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Mercedes-AMG E 63 and easily surpass the 423kW/680Nm from Audi’s 4.4-litre twin-turbo RS6.

The new M5 is expected to take advantage of enhancements introduced in the seventh-generation 5 Series model range, including new LED headlights, improved aerodynamics, improved safety technologies and updated connectivity options.

The new-generation 5 Series will launch in Australian in March next year, putting a global reveal of the flagship M5 sometime in 2017 and a local launch in 2018.

The current BMW M5 range kicks off at $184,715 before on-roads for the Pure edition and tops out with the $230,615 Competition version.
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      10-22-2016, 02:30 PM   #2
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Thanks to PostMember Kritz for posting this up in another forum first.

I don't know if this is legit yet, it seems rather unofficial but the Aussies down under claim that a BMW Executive has spilled the beans on the next M5 and that it will definitely get AWD. To me this seems very plausible and believable because at this point it's about the only thing that M can really do to make the next M5 special. If the E60 M5 was the M5 with the V10, and the F10 M5 was the first M5 with turbochargers, then the G80 (F90) M5 will be the first to offer AWD.

Now if it is true and M does give the next M5 AWD, then how it goes about doing it will be interesting because there are challenges involved. M never wanted AWD before because it affects chassis balance and overall weight, but it is true that there is a limit to how much power and torque a RWD can put down effectively, unless of course it's a McLaren.

Here are the challenges of AWD for the next M5:

1. Keeping weight down, an AWD system usually adds between 150lbs to 300lbs of weight to a car.

2. Torque and Power Split

3. Adds to the complexity of engineering, maintenance, and repair.

How there are many different ways that M can go about introducing AWD to the M5:

1. Traditional AWD system where front wheels are always spinning 100% of the time.

2. Non-Traditional AWD system, like the Ferrari FF utilizes.

3. An AWD system that is able to be turned on and off at the touch of button, where the driver can switch between RWD and AWD at anytime.

4. A Hybrid AWD system where like on the BMW i8, only the front wheels are connected to an electric motor for propulsion. However with this method, the car will require an internal battery for powering the front wheels. This means more weight.

Lastly, with BMW already announcing that the M550i will have AWD(which many press releases fail to mention) and is the reason for the 4.0s 0-60 time, the next M5 not having AWD will mean it will have extreme difficultly being faster than a lesser car.

I am personally not opposed to the next M5 getting AWD and I think it needs it, if simply to create a uniqueness about it, but how they go about implementing an AWD system is what really can make or break the next M5. If they take the Audi route and simply have a regular AWD that creates more weight up front and more weight in general then I will be sorely disappointed. Even if they manage to decrease weight of the next M5 by utilizing all the carbon fiber stuff but then they just add the weight back on with the AWD, whereby the overall weight is exactly the same as the F10 M5 or close to it, then I will also be disappointed. No, if the next M5 is to be AWD, it needs to be lighter than the F10 M5 while offering equal if not better chassis balance than the F10 M5 as well. A tall order, I say.

Additionally, the steering on the next M5 going to Electric, the AWD system won't affect steering feel anyway.



Quote:
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25805300168872


BMW’s new-generation 5 Series-based M5 super sedan will employ an advanced all-wheel-drive (AWD) system to handle a twin-turbocharged V8, targeted to produce about 450kW and more than 700Nm of torque.

Speaking exclusively to GoAuto at the Melbourne unveiling of the seventh-generation 5 Series, BMW Munich product expert Sven Arens confirmed that the new M5 will adopt a version BMW’s all-paw xDrive system, albeit with a heavy rear-axle bias, to handle increased performance.

“Yes, all-wheel-drive. 20:80 [torque] split,” he said.

While the new car will likely be able to vary that torque split ratio depending on traction, the new M5 will be the first full-fat M passenger car (excluding SUVs) in history to feature an all-wheel-drive powertrain and also points to where future M6, M3, M4 and M2 cars could be heading.

While purists will bemoan the shift away from rear-wheel-drive M passenger cars, Mr Arens justified the switch to AWD technology with the fact that BMW has simply reached the limits of two-wheel performance.

“Make the calculations yourself,” he said. “Engines have become so powerful. For a reasonable saloon car, the cut off is 700Nm of torque on two driven wheels.

“With the current M5 we are at 680Nm and thanks to the fact that we use Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres, it can get all the traction and all the power on the ground.

“If we are now stepping up to 600hp, which means we are going to go beyond the 700Nm of torque, only if you would use a [Michelin Pilot Sport] Cup 2 tyre would you be able to transfer that to the ground.

“But then it means your customer would come in every 5000km for new tyres. They won’t be very happy.”

Competing against the BMW M5 in the luxury super sedan segment will be the yet-to-be-revealed Mercedes-AMG E63, and the Audi RS6 – both of which can send power to all four corners.

Mr Arens referenced Mercedes-AMG models capable of producing 1000Nm of torque and the Dodge Charger and Challenger SRT Hellcat vehicles that peak at 880Nm as rear-drive cars that are not able to capitalise on their mountainous torque numbers.

“Look at what Mercedes does, in their cars that have 1000Nm it’s only available from 4th gear, its limited to 700Nm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear,” he said.

“So you need to cut it off, because otherwise it just turns into smoke. Look at the Hellcat, switch off the traction control system, and you’re not going anywhere.

“We have reached a point, for two-wheel-drive, the limit has been reached, the next step must be all-wheel drive.”

Mr Arens also spilled the beans on the engine powering the next M5, confirming various reports and rumours of an eight-cylinder motor.

“It is going to be a V8, obviously,” he said. “Double turbo. Modelled around 600 horsepower (447kW).”

The engine will likely be a tweaked carryover from the outgoing M5 – which uses a 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8 to produce up to 423kW of power and 690Nm of torque – but is expected to receive upgrades to engine management, cooling and the turbos for the increased grunt.

Zero to 100km/h figures are expected to be much better than the current M5’s 4.2 seconds and outperform the next-generation M550i xDrive’s 4.0s dash, putting it in the sub-four second category for the first time.

Estimated power figures put the upcoming M5 on par with the reported 600hp (447kW) of the upcoming 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Mercedes-AMG E 63 and easily surpass the 423kW/680Nm from Audi’s 4.4-litre twin-turbo RS6.

The new M5 is expected to take advantage of enhancements introduced in the seventh-generation 5 Series model range, including new LED headlights, improved aerodynamics, improved safety technologies and updated connectivity options.

The new-generation 5 Series will launch in Australian in March next year, putting a global reveal of the flagship M5 sometime in 2017 and a local launch in 2018.

The current BMW M5 range kicks off at $184,715 before on-roads for the Pure edition and tops out with the $230,615 Competition version.
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      10-22-2016, 05:35 PM   #3
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Something people aren't taking about is how they will actually, mechanically, deliver the awd.....my guess is it's going to be an upgraded zf8 like the x5m uses....unless you think BMW will design a brand new awd version of the dct transmission...which would be awesome but doubtful seeing as though they are using the same s63tu motor.
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      10-22-2016, 09:55 PM   #4
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I wouldn't even consider an M5 unless it has awd.
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      10-23-2016, 03:32 AM   #5
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I live in Cali and do not not need the AWD. I will take it either way.
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      10-24-2016, 01:48 PM   #6
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I am totally all in. AWD now makes it a true four season beast. I'm sure M Division will pull this off brilliantly.
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      10-24-2016, 01:52 PM   #7
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Can't wait for this!!
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      10-24-2016, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbbrewer View Post
I wouldn't even consider an M5 unless it has awd.
About f-ing time AWD was offered in a BMW that powerful.
Even a moderately powerful car like the M240i does a faster 0-60 with xDrive.
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      10-24-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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Figured so, since they were bragging about the new M550i being quicker than F10 M5.

It would have to have awd drive to be quicker than M550i.
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      10-24-2016, 02:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
I am totally all in. AWD now makes it a true four season beast. I'm sure M Division will pull this off brilliantly.
+1

Two ticks against it for me would be lack of AWD and no D pillar. I guess this gets it down to one tick. If Merc gifts us with the AMG wagon again, I'll have a tough time picking our next car.
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      10-24-2016, 02:24 PM   #11
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      10-24-2016, 02:45 PM   #12
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Is that a default 20:80 torque split and it is variable from there? Or are they just stating the maximum rear bias?
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      10-24-2016, 02:50 PM   #13
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It makes total sense for the m5 to go awd and will be a welcome addition for sure. Now if the m3 or m2 go awd then the pitchforks might need to come out
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      10-24-2016, 02:57 PM   #14
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Rather than doing a trick front diff like the x-drive vehicles, would it be less weight to do an electric motor on the front wheels Tesla style?

Then you could control front axle electronically and for those who want to go 100% RWD drifting fun could just kill power to the electric motors.

I think the SRT Jeep's had a software mod where you could do the same thing to the mechanical diffs though...
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      10-24-2016, 02:57 PM   #15
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After october 2013, M is going the wrong way. Used is now way better than new.
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      10-24-2016, 02:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser330
Something people aren't taking about is how they will actually, mechanically, deliver the awd.....my guess is it's going to be an upgraded zf8 like the x5m uses....unless you think BMW will design a brand new awd version of the dct transmission...which would be awesome but doubtful seeing as though they are using the same s63tu motor.
There actually is discussion on this. It's interesting to think outside of the box and have a little fun with it.

The S63TU isn't "the same" and the TU2 is adapted for the F85/86 with ZF Automatic.

What's most likely? Same layout as M550i and M760i but with:

Improved Getrag Dual Clutch 7DCIxxx (current M's use 7GDCI700 - AWD configuration has been optional since its introduction). ZF Torque Converter Automatics don't like engine speeds above 7000 rpm.

Latest Intelligent Diff Systems from GKN incorporating M5 specific ProActive functions tied into the Vehicle Dynamics and Safety Systems.
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      10-24-2016, 02:58 PM   #17
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As someone who lives in Colorado, I welcome the change. I hope they pass down the AWD concept to the M3/M4. My M4 sits idle for most of the winter and I would love to have the capability to drive it in moderately inclement conditions, which I won't even attempt now.
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      10-24-2016, 03:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphie9677 View Post
As someone who lives in Colorado, I welcome the change. I hope they pass down the AWD concept to the M3/M4. My M4 sits idle for most of the winter and I would love to have the capability to drive it in moderately inclement conditions, which I won't even attempt now.
Have you ever actually put full winter tires on your M4 ?
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      10-24-2016, 03:46 PM   #19
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Sales rep at my local BMW stealer told me at the weekend that the next M5 would have adjustable 4WD to cope with the nigh on 700bhp. Took it with a pinch of salt but this article seems to back it up.
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      10-24-2016, 03:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
it is true that there is a limit to how much power and torque a RWD can put down effectively, unless of course it's a McLaren
Or a Porsche. The acceleration figures for the new Boxster/Cayman/911 are staggering. MotorTrend ran the new Carrera S PDK 0-60 in 3.1s and the 1/4 mile in 11.5. Hell, Car & Driver got the base 911 stickshift 0-60 in 4.0s.

Whether BMW goes all-wheel drive or not, they need to steal some of the Porsche engineers that programmed their PDK launch control system to simplify the engagement and improve the results, because the system BMW uses in their rear wheel drive M's sucks by comparison.
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      10-24-2016, 04:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Have you ever actually put full winter tires on your M4 ?
I'm actually going to order my winter tires or wheel-tire set today or tomorrow.

I'm also in Colorado. Do you have any recommendations? (M2).

Not sure if I should slap winters on the stock wheels, or buy a whole new set. First time I'll need to do this, so I'm not super confident in my decision making.
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      10-24-2016, 04:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
Can't wait for this!!
I'm sniffing that you're sniffing for....Munich 2017, maybe September-ish when this thing goes into production??? Lol
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