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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics B58 (M240i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning N54 135i/1M vs. N55 M235i/M2? vs. N58 M240i

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      09-16-2016, 01:34 PM   #1
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N54 135i/1M vs. N55 M235i/M2? vs. N58 M240i

Hi all -

Looking ahead to the next potential race car project and I'm thinking either and M2 or more likely and M235i with an M2 front end conversion. We had a 135i twin turbo with a 1M front end conversion, so there's a huge advantage there in cost and knowledge if we built a better version of one of those again. But if there are enough advantages in the drive train and the handling to make up for the cost and weight difference (for sake of argument, let's say the official race weight for an M2 will be about 125 lbs. more than a 1M), I'll go with what is going to make the best race car.

From an engine standpoint, what are the advantages of the M235/M2/M240i engines over an N54 twin turbo from a hardware standpoint? In other words, with aftermarket modifications of software, exhaust, intake and intercooler, can I get as much out of an N54 twin turbo as the newer engines? If not, which of the newer engines is best?
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      09-16-2016, 03:36 PM   #2
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I was going to go into detail about the comparison, but that would take too long haha.

I will say this though; you're probably better off going with the m235i racing car front end over the m2 conversion. Something I've thought about as well.

Also power potential on stock turbos goes like this (least to greatest)

n55
n54
b58 (might be tied with n54).

That's not to say I would run either one at maximum power on a road course with 30+ minute sessions. Conservative tunes on either one will all be around the same power.

Generally speaking I would say the n55 has less "bugs" than the n54 though. B58 I'm unsure of; as is probably most of the community at this point.

Does the 1 series cars come with the M brakes? The m235/240 does so that might factor into your budget for your build.

Weight of the cars cannot be over emphasized when looking for lap times, but I think that's basically a toss up when looking at these cars in race prep configuration.

Would you go with the 8at transmission? They seem to be having great success with the stock tranny in the m235i racing series.

Would love to build a dedicated track car one day instead of always using my daily drivers

If you decide to go with a 2 series please create a post here on the forum with your build updates
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      09-16-2016, 07:12 PM   #3
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The n54 135i came with those huge Brembo sourced front calipers that were essentially the equivalent of the Performance Parts yellow calipers you could buy for the car. Are you saying the M235i comes with Performance Parts calipers or the calipers that were actually on something like the e92 M3? Probably doesn't matter, because for what I would do with the car I'd be going to some aftermarket racing brakes.

I've spoken to some people that thought the N54 was better/easier for tuning than the N55. We raced our N54 for about 8 years and the only thing we ever had fail was the water pump (after several years) and every so often the VANOS solenoids would go.

I think I'd go with looking for one with a manual tranny for racing. Especially if I thought about doing 3 hour enduro races or longer.

I don't know what BMW Club Racing will officially list the weights at (they have only listed the 135i so far), but based on what are supposed to be official weights out there, I come up with:
---------factory weight ------ race weight (w/driver)
135i ......... 3373 lbs. .................... 3103 lbs.
1M (-77) ... 3296 lbs. .................... 3026 lbs.
M2 (+154) . 3450 lbs. .................... 3180 lbs.

So the edge in the weight dept. goes to the 1M (or a 135i converted) by 154 lbs. over the M235i (M2 converted). The question is the M240i and how much potential from that N58 couple with being a wider car, will it be worth the weight trade-off?
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      09-20-2016, 10:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
power potential on stock turbos goes like this (least to greatest)
n55
n54
b58 (might be tied with n54).
I was reading a review on the B58 and the turbos are said to have a 6 percent increase in turbine wheel size and 10 percent increase in compressor wheel diameter (over the N55).

I never owned an N55 and having had our drivers deal with turbo lag on the N54, I guess that is the big advantage going N54 to N55. Apparently BMW found a way to virtually eliminate the turbo lag and supposedly such is the case with the N58 as well.

Now the other concern is how easily the N58 will be able to be tuned. Another article I read rated the N54 the most tunable of the 3 with the M2 engine also more tunable than the N55 and N58.
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Last edited by scottn2retro; 09-20-2016 at 10:19 PM..
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      09-21-2016, 09:33 AM   #5
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Don't forget the M2 has a torque vectoring differential, if it becomes reliable it will be a handling advantage on the track over the M235i. In addition the M2 has the DCT, again an advantage on the track over the 8 speed or manual. And, the M2 has a separate transmission oil cooler. And finally the rear suspension arms are all forged or pressure cast bits with stiffer bushings. Plus as you mentioned the better front suspension. That's quite a few track goodies for a small increase in cost over a M235i or M240i.
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      09-21-2016, 10:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post
Don't forget the M2 has a torque vectoring differential, if it becomes reliable it will be a handling advantage on the track over the M235i. In addition the M2 has the DCT, again an advantage on the track over the 8 speed or manual. And, the M2 has a separate transmission oil cooler. And finally the rear suspension arms are all forged or pressure cast bits with stiffer bushings. Plus as you mentioned the better front suspension. That's quite a few track goodies for a small increase in cost over a M235i or M240i.
Maybe not much difference in price new, but a huge difference in price used or salvaged. Used M2's aren't going to be cheap and salvage M2s could be $20K or more higher than M235i's at the salvage yard.

One option I hadn't considered is a 2011 135i with the N55 instead of the N54 motor.
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      02-14-2017, 12:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post
Don't forget the M2 has a torque vectoring differential, if it becomes reliable it will be a handling advantage on the track over the M235i. In addition the M2 has the DCT, again an advantage on the track over the 8 speed or manual. And, the M2 has a separate transmission oil cooler. And finally the rear suspension arms are all forged or pressure cast bits with stiffer bushings. Plus as you mentioned the better front suspension. That's quite a few track goodies for a small increase in cost over a M235i or M240i.
Now that I'm looking into it more, that is the one thing preventing me from doing a 'poor man's' M2 starting with an M235i. I can't just retro fit that electronic rear diff. (I'm sure tied into software) into an M235i. And I think you're right, that must be a big factor in how a heavier M2 can be faster on the track than a 1M.
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      02-14-2017, 06:46 PM   #8
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The 2 series being a longer chassis, provides the stability around the track to get faster lap times. The electronic LSD would be the last thing I'd want from the M2 for a dedicated race car. Look into Quaife or Wavetrac for racing LSD packages as they'll outlast the M2's electronic unit and provide controllable locking of the rear end (with your right foot, not a computer). Would be cheaper too..
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      02-17-2017, 02:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
The 2 series being a longer chassis, provides the stability around the track to get faster lap times. The electronic LSD would be the last thing I'd want from the M2 for a dedicated race car. Look into Quaife or Wavetrac for racing LSD packages as they'll outlast the M2's electronic unit and provide controllable locking of the rear end (with your right foot, not a computer). Would be cheaper too..
Reliability could be a long term down side, but drivers that have driven our M4 love the way they can apply the power to the rear wheels vs. what our 135i could do with an LSD.
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      02-17-2017, 07:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottn2retro View Post
Reliability could be a long term down side, but drivers that have driven our M4 love the way they can apply the power to the rear wheels vs. what our 135i could do with an LSD.
Oh I totally understand how well it works, don't get me wrong. I was super impressed by my friend's M4 and got a few hours behind the wheel on mountain roads, and was fantastic. My only fear, including the M Performance clutch style LSD on my own car, along with the active LSD's in the M2/3/4's for track duty is that the service life of the LSD will be shorter than vehicle life (especially when primary use is on track). But I guess at that stage of track life, it's peanuts in the grand scheme of racing expenses lol..
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      11-22-2017, 01:02 PM   #11
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Hi All -

After I started this thread, I had an opportunity to pic up a 2010 LeMans blue 135i with the n54 and a manual transmission really cheap. So I'll start doing some modifications to that in the near future and keep it in my back pocket in case I need to build a race car in a hurry. Plus, I still have some wheels, suspension, etc. stuff left over from our 135i race car days.

But I hear they are going to start putting the M4 engine in the M2. Do you guys know if that's true? If that's the case, I'll wait for that before starting an M2 race car.

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      12-03-2017, 08:07 AM   #12
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I love the Le Mans blue of the 1er. I had an 08 135 and miss it, such a fun car! I had 120k miles on that car when I traded it in lol. The b58 motor in the M240i in my op produces so much more power than the n54 does. If they put the m4 motor in the m2 mannnnnn that thing is gonna be even sweeter than it already is lol. Good luck with the build! If you post the build page on 1addicts I’ll be checking it out for sure.
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