[M3 Esq]

Food for thought. I'm an advanced driver and have always ran MDM in my E92 M3 and DTC in my 335i. I will run sport plus in my M235i. I guess I never saw the point in adding extra risk to wring out those last few seconds in a car I need to drive to work the next day. And I never felt that MDM or DTC intervened so much that it took the fun out of driving the car at speed. To each his own I guess.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ct-your-nanny/

[BPC]

Good article. Thanks. The only time I have ever turned off DSC was at the performance driving school in Greer SC - when told to do so for skid pad and other fun stuff. It really made me appreciate how well the traction control works

[xantdieselx]

Sport plus is very good in the M235i. It lets you get away with quite a bit before intervening.

Also you can't run DSC completely off with Sport or Sport plus. DSC off defaults steering, throttle and suspension to comfort. I've read that the rationale behind that is on a track with DSC off the softer throttle response is more desirable.

[bryan_G01]

dsc off for hooning - donuts, drifiting, etc...

When driving over 120 mph, id like all the help keeping me on the track.

[allthatisntnow]

Dynamic traction control/ delayed stability is as off as id want to go on road or track. If you were doing a drift day with loads of room for error then totally off may be desirable. Its amazing how much the car can shift around in dynamic mode as has been mentioned. I think it's a good pointer for smoothness and ability to correctly load the car if you can drive with it on and have minimal intervention. As the article states, those who think having it off is the indicator of a good driver tend to be the ones regretting the decision.

[i8ur911]

Even in Sport+ the traction/DSC intervenes too much on track.....for me.

I'm all about driving safely when on track, but you're not going to "learn" with the nannies on.

Just my opinion.

[Pparana]

To each there own, mine are off, always on track. They are not calibrated for any mods, if your running bone stock I suppose if your worried. I left dsc on by accident once, abs went bananas at 130mph into the brake zone. No thanks.

I have a sticker on the dash to remind me now.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Pparana

To each there own, mine are off, always on track. They are not calibrated for any mods, if your running bone stock I suppose if your worried. I left dsc on by accident once, abs went bananas at 130mph into the brake zone. No thanks.

I have a sticker on the dash to remind me now.

I believe abs will be on no matter if you have DSC on or off though...

[geonutt]

+1 for DSC off... agree with to each there own, I like to put a pretty aggressive degree of rotation on the car going into corners and I just can't do that with DSC on, it gets in the way. Who knows maybe I am that Hooligan that everyone else laughs at and likes to stay clear of but it makes me happy either that or its me making up for long repressed childhood insecurities

[allthatisntnow]

Yeah, Porsche Stability Management always reactivates abs under braking regardless of whether PSM is disabled or not. I can't imagine BMW being any different. The whole on/off thing (track) is entirely an experience based decision. Im still very much a novice so don't yet see a case for totally defeating it.

It is true that the more you modify, the more ineffective the factory esp becomes, but to what extent depends on which of its inputs you're altering. Yaw angle, steering angle and brake effort are its bread and butter data points for managing an out of shape vehicle. So if you run r-comps, BBKs/aggressive pads, the ecu presets will be causing it to jump in at entirely the wrong time. You could have a tonne of grip, but the g-sensor will think you're on street tyres and rein you in unnecessary. Power cut intervention for the engine will be different if running a tune (and is the most undesirable and invasive aspect when stock) But its there and it can hold you back. There are aftermarket control units available that allow some customisation of the esp but this runs expensive and most would just say "use the off button". You really don't have the DSC option if you're heavily modded anyway. But very few people start out much beyond stock.

Personally, I'm still running with some stability control active as i believe it can be a good tool for honing vehicle control when starting out. Plus it reduces some of the risk. Im on PSSs still as I'm not yet experienced enough to be pushing much beyond their limits. But at the end of the day it is up to the individual, track, conditions and experience on whether you want to turn it off. It is after all an aid/ safety net and not a guarantee against crashing.

If you're just starting out (mainly unmodded) - DSC on
If you're running DSC off but are driving much slower due to apprehension - DSC on. Build it up slowly. Learn where DSC is saving you/ covering your errors (use an instructor) and where its restricting you and adapt accordingly. Use it as a tool to improve smoothness. Just be mindful that it will increase brake temps if pushing hard and can cause some issues with fault codes (brake overheating/ limp mode).
When you get to a point where it is hindering your progress then (and only then imho) is it time to start turning it off.

On the road i don't see a reason for ever turning it off bar perhaps for logging purposes.

[bryan_G01]

dsc off is mapped to comfort mode which really messes with power if you are heavily tuned. S+ for the win in my case.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

dsc off is mapped to comfort mode which really messes with power if you are heavily tuned. S+ for the win in my case.

I've heard this before and that seemed to be the case when I initially tested it.

After looking at in more detail though I don't think this is the case. It actually drops you down to Sport (from Sport+). This makes sense because Sport+ has no user adjustment settings like Sport does.

When I'm in Sport+ and turn off DSC I still get the steering and throttle feel of Sport+.

I think visually looking at the dash when testing this confuses people because it appears it's coming out of comfort mode when you hit the sport button again. It's not though. It's already in Sport.

I've tracked a lot over the last 15 years or so and always turned off traction control on all my cars ("off-off" for those that know ). But since my m235 doesn't have the LSD option (yet) I'm tempted to just use Sport+. This is because when turning DSC off I think you loose the e-diff function that uses the rear brakes to help rotate the rear of the car......??

Also on a side note: The sticker tire you run the less DSC will kick in if you leave it on.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I've heard this before and that seemed to be the case when I initially tested it.

After looking at in more detail though I don't think this is the case. It actually drops you down to Sport (from Sport+). This makes sense because Sport+ has no user adjustment settings like Sport does.

When I'm in Sport+ and turn off DSC I still get the steering and throttle feel of Sport+.

I think visually looking at the dash when testing this confuses people because it appears it's coming out of comfort mode when you hit the sport button again. It's not though. It's already in Sport.

I've tracked a lot over the last 15 years or so and always turned off traction control on all my cars ("off-off" for those that know ). But since my m235 doesn't have the LSD option (yet) I'm tempted to just use Sport+. This is because when turning DSC off I think you loose the e-diff function that uses the rear brakes to help rotate the rear of the car......??

Also on a side note: The sticker tire you run the less DSC will kick in if you leave it on.

From what i can gather stability and traction control are active in these forms:

Comfort - DSC + Traction on
Sport - DSC + Traction on (dampers and throttle configurable)
Sport Plus - Dynamic Traction Control (some slip allowed) + Delayed stabilisation (sport throttle and dampers)
DSC off - No stabilisation, no traction control, e-lsd active (your only electronic "aid") comfort throttle

Of course the e-lsd function works as part of the stability/traction program normally, but without an lsd fitted it segregates it as a stand alone when the DSC is disabled else you'd be flung off on your first corner with an open diff.

[Pparana]

That's correct, the sport throttle is just a trick, making 10 percent of the pedal deliver 80 percent of the throttle.

On track it's better to have a wider band to control your input, hence the throttle goes back to comfort, same amount of power, you just have to actually floor it to get it.

[bryan_G01]

Theres a big difference in power from DSC off or comfort mode vs. sports plus in my car, its not just mashing the gas.

[geonutt]

Always interesting to hear different preferences... I actually prefer the linear throttle mapping (comfort) on the track as I prefer having a more linear and more predictable (at least to me) throttle response in the corners. That said i wouldn't mind an 11 switch in my car for those time I really need that extra push over the cliff ;-).

[bryan_G01]

dinan fmic and gold heat tape wrapped dinan intake, afe intake duct, ER CP and fmic piping, enzo flash w/ jb+ on 50% setting piggy, wagner sport dp, 3.75 gal e85, 18" x 235/40 square Enkie rajin on Nitto 01's.

My iat's are never 10 degrees over the outside temp with the setup. AFR is 13-15 depending.





hitting 160mph, maxed out 7th gear.

[rich8566]

I always run on the track with all nannies off. The e-diff works in this mode and you have a real feel for the dynamics of the car. It is not as scary as it may seem to track the car in the mode. However, I do find it scary to run in this mode on the street. For street use I only go as far as sport plus.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

dinan fmic and gold heat tape wrapped dinan intake, afe intake duct, ER CP and fmic piping, enzo flash w/ jb+ on 50% setting piggy, wagner sport dp, 3.75 gal e85, 18" x 235/40 square Enkie rajin on Nitto 01's.

My iat's are never 10 degrees over the outside temp with the setup. AFR is 13-15 depending.





hitting 160mph, maxed out 7th gear.

If your traction control is on, in sport it is dialed back, you would be faster, as with mods the traction control systems can interfere.

I do not think in sport plus dsc off, will be any faster, just changing the throttle mapping for the pedal, no output changes to motor or power.

I Might be wrong on an automatic. My research was based on manuals, some people have even gone as far as to plot it out with dynos on the power curve between the two.

Also your running a full flash, and piggy back with some serious mods, so all bets on anything are off the table, IE the faster throttle response may actually produce more power in your setup.

[pikcachu]

DSC OFF is a mode on itself....
there is not such thing as Sport & DSC OFF

you have ECO - COMFORT - SPORT - SPORT+ - DTC ON - DSC OFF
being SPORT+ the combination of SPORT and DTC ON

[Anthony235]

That is a great article in the OP.

Always take internet track advice with a grain of salt. I'm surprised that there is no "Top 10 laptimes" sticky on 2addicts.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

That is a great article in the OP.

Always take internet track advice with a grain of salt. I'm surprised that there is no "Top 10 laptimes" sticky on 2addicts.

LOL totally agree there are a lot of internet racers on the car forums. On some of the "other" forums I've seen a lot of people get chided for leaving MDM or DCT or DSC or PCM or whatever it's called in their respective car. It's a personal choice IMO and there is nothing wrong with leaving it on if you're not comfortable taking it off.

On my second track day ever my instructor told me "turn all that shit off" because you won't learning anything with it on. Seems odd for an instructor to say something like that to a novice student. And this was BMW CCA, not some fly by night outfit. If I want to practice car control I'll do it on the auto x course or the kart track.

On the other hand, I was instructing at a street survival event for teens and they had a tractor trailer there. The idea was to have the kids sit inside and see what the truck driver can and can't see from inside the cabin. Totally changed the way I drive around trucks on the highway. But I digress. Anyway, the driver said he turns off all the nannies because "electronics can fail and I won't". Also an interesting perspective. So again to each his own.