BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > Cosmetic Modifications > Xpel being sued by 3M

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-23-2016, 07:41 PM   #1
jtodd_fl
2nd Asst to Dept Undersecretary
jtodd_fl's Avatar
6704
Rep
1,298
Posts

Drives: People crazy
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [9.00]
2016 F87 M2  [0.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
Xpel being sued by 3M

Anyone know more about this? They have a full fender and full hood pattern for the M2 while others don't. A little worried they'll be sued out of business. Any thoughts or info?
__________________
This space for rent.
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2016, 10:00 PM   #2
confusion
Captain
confusion's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
836
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Anyone know more about this? They have a full fender and full hood pattern for the M2 while others don't. A little worried they'll be sued out of business. Any thoughts or info?
Regardless of the result of the lawsuit, XPEL does amazing work and sells a quality product. I would definitely do business with them again. For the sake of the health of the industry, I hope 3M drops the suit or loses. Worst case scenario, they're not around for your next car. But for this one, no reason not to go with the best.
Appreciate 1
      06-24-2016, 04:54 AM   #3
jtodd_fl
2nd Asst to Dept Undersecretary
jtodd_fl's Avatar
6704
Rep
1,298
Posts

Drives: People crazy
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [9.00]
2016 F87 M2  [0.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Anyone know more about this? They have a full fender and full hood pattern for the M2 while others don't. A little worried they'll be sued out of business. Any thoughts or info?
Regardless of the result of the lawsuit, XPEL does amazing work and sells a quality product. I would definitely do business with them again. For the sake of the health of the industry, I hope 3M drops the suit or loses. Worst case scenario, they're not around for your next car. But for this one, no reason not to go with the best.
Appreciate the input thanks.
__________________
This space for rent.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 05:42 AM   #4
Chills
Private
United Kingdom
26
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 DCT
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

I'm considering Xpel and a large part of the attraction is their guarantee... If they go under presumably the guarantee would go with them.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 07:12 AM   #5
oolas3
Captain
387
Rep
876
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: May 2015
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chills View Post
I'm considering Xpel and a large part of the attraction is their guarantee... If they go under presumably the guarantee would go with them.

Does the guarantee cover labor too? If not, it's not much of a guarnatee as most of the cost is in the labor is my understanding.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 07:16 AM   #6
Chills
Private
United Kingdom
26
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 DCT
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Yep, includes labour...

From their website "XPEL ULTIMATE also comes with a full 10-year warranty against yellowing, discoloration, peeling, cracking and hazing. If it fails, we’ll replace it—labor included"
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 07:24 AM   #7
omasou
Colonel
omasou's Avatar
United_States
2080
Rep
2,999
Posts

Drives: BMWs
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: US

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2023 BMW S1000RR  [0.50]
2022 BMW F900XR  [3.00]
2022 BMW X6 40i  [0.50]
2020 BMW M2C  [9.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m3m3mr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chills View Post
I'm considering Xpel and a large part of the attraction is their guarantee... If they go under presumably the guarantee would go with them.

Does the guarantee cover labor too? If not, it's not much of a guarnatee as most of the cost is in the labor is my understanding.
+1
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 09:29 AM   #8
quikM2
Captain
Canada
370
Rep
734
Posts

Drives: 2017 Jahre M3
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

it seems to be a patent infringement claim by 3m:

http://www.windowfilmmag.com/2016/01...-infringement/
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 11:26 AM   #9
oolas3
Captain
387
Rep
876
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: May 2015
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
it seems to be a patent infringement claim by 3m:

http://www.windowfilmmag.com/2016/01...-infringement/

If there's any truth to this, 3M will crush them. Xpel isn't a small company, it is a minuscule company. 3M has very deep pockets to see this to the end.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 12:02 PM   #10
quikM2
Captain
Canada
370
Rep
734
Posts

Drives: 2017 Jahre M3
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3m3mr View Post
If there's any truth to this, 3M will crush them. Xpel isn't a small company, it is a minuscule company. 3M has very deep pockets to see this to the end.
Thats really sad. I hate when companies do that. They feel intimidated because xpel is a better product and with all their size and resources they can't beat them fairly so they bury them in legal... hopefully the case gets dismissed on merit - probably xpel's only chance.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2016, 12:21 PM   #11
metrickid
Dinosaur supervisor
metrickid's Avatar
Netherlands
3027
Rep
4,214
Posts

Drives: E91 318d
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Autobahn

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
Thats really sad. I hate when companies do that. They feel intimidated because xpel is a better product and with all their size and resources they can't beat them fairly so they bury them in legal... hopefully the case gets dismissed on merit - probably xpel's only chance.
Well, if Xpel really did use patented techniques they had it coming.
Appreciate 2
      06-24-2016, 12:22 PM   #12
gmzanatta
Colonel
gmzanatta's Avatar
Canada
1823
Rep
2,948
Posts

Drives: LBB 6MT M2 # 660/713
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NB

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by metrickid View Post
Well, if Xpel really did use patented techniques they had it coming.
Appreciate 1
      06-24-2016, 08:54 PM   #13
quikM2
Captain
Canada
370
Rep
734
Posts

Drives: 2017 Jahre M3
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by metrickid View Post
Well, if Xpel really did use patented techniques they had it coming.
Do you think they did or would? I honestly think its bullying as xpel has been around for awhile now and top notch across the board for quality and reviews. It was what I wanted for my car when it arrived. Did it take 3M this long to "figure out" xpel was copying their tech? Just seems odd is all.
Appreciate 0
      06-25-2016, 01:18 PM   #14
BHairsto
Lieutenant
BHairsto's Avatar
United_States
136
Rep
497
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW M2
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodbridge, VA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW X5 35d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
Do you think they did or would? I honestly think its bullying as xpel has been around for awhile now and top notch across the board for quality and reviews. It was what I wanted for my car when it arrived. Did it take 3M this long to "figure out" xpel was copying their tech? Just seems odd is all.
I am a patent attorney (as well as a certified Xpel installer). It's wrong to assume the suit is bullying based on the time it took 3M to sue. Patent suits are massively expensive, and not something that most companies engage in frivolously. We have no idea how much negotiation and correspondence took place between the two companies and/or their counsel prior to suit being filed, either. Also, without seeing the patent claims, it's hard to judge how easy it would be to determine whether Xpel might be infringing. It is especially difficult to determine infringement of method claims if there is no easy access to a competitor's manufacturing facilities/processes. 3M has been in the game a long time, and it would not surprise me if they have some older, very broad patents covering PPF which, although XPEL may have improved upon, may still be infringed. That being said, Xpel is a great product with great customer service, and I sincerely hope they come out of the suit in good shape.
Appreciate 3
WI_Rob93.50
      06-25-2016, 06:30 PM   #15
quikM2
Captain
Canada
370
Rep
734
Posts

Drives: 2017 Jahre M3
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHairsto View Post
I am a patent attorney (as well as a certified Xpel installer). It's wrong to assume the suit is bullying based on the time it took 3M to sue. Patent suits are massively expensive, and not something that most companies engage in frivolously. We have no idea how much negotiation and correspondence took place between the two companies and/or their counsel prior to suit being filed, either. Also, without seeing the patent claims, it's hard to judge how easy it would be to determine whether Xpel might be infringing. It is especially difficult to determine infringement of method claims if there is no easy access to a competitor's manufacturing facilities/processes. 3M has been in the game a long time, and it would not surprise me if they have some older, very broad patents covering PPF which, although XPEL may have improved upon, may still be infringed. That being said, Xpel is a great product with great customer service, and I sincerely hope they come out of the suit in good shape.
makes sense - thanks. It's really too bad some ancient patent can apply to a really good process or improvement by xpel. At the end of the day its ppf, its a film product.. pretty basic stuff and I don't think it's fair 3m can hit xpel just because they are doing well and have the best product. I'm not familiar at all with patent law but to me that doesn't seem to be justice to hold a product or small company back from a great idea just because its similar to the giant that is 3m.
Appreciate 0
      06-25-2016, 07:17 PM   #16
oolas3
Captain
387
Rep
876
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: May 2015
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHairsto View Post
I am a patent attorney (as well as a certified Xpel installer). It's wrong to assume the suit is bullying based on the time it took 3M to sue. Patent suits are massively expensive, and not something that most companies engage in frivolously. We have no idea how much negotiation and correspondence took place between the two companies and/or their counsel prior to suit being filed, either. Also, without seeing the patent claims, it's hard to judge how easy it would be to determine whether Xpel might be infringing. It is especially difficult to determine infringement of method claims if there is no easy access to a competitor's manufacturing facilities/processes. 3M has been in the game a long time, and it would not surprise me if they have some older, very broad patents covering PPF which, although XPEL may have improved upon, may still be infringed. That being said, Xpel is a great product with great customer service, and I sincerely hope they come out of the suit in good shape.


Good feedback. There can't be that many patent attorneys that are also xpel certiifed installers!
Appreciate 3
      06-26-2016, 03:44 PM   #17
jpics80
First Lieutenant
jpics80's Avatar
United_States
230
Rep
315
Posts

Drives: 2017 M3 - Alpine White
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Nashua, NH

iTrader: (0)

oh wow thats nuts.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2016, 08:28 PM   #18
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28912
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
At the end of the day its ppf, its a film product.. pretty basic stuff and I don't think it's fair 3m can hit xpel just because they are doing well and have the best product. I'm not familiar at all with patent law but to me that doesn't seem to be justice to hold a product or small company back from a great idea just because its similar to the giant that is 3m.
That's not how it works. It's about protecting intellectual property rights. If others (regardless whether big or small entities) want to benefit from your patented technology (which possibly required quite some R&D investment), they require your permission (mostly through license agreements stipulating the payment of royalties).

Patent lawsuits are often very technical and complex, with the patent holder fiercely fighting to get confirmed what he believes to be his right(s), while his rival battles back to get confirmed that the patent holder's claims are ill-founded. Actually, you could say that it's a fight about (threatened) monopoly, competition and (market share) money. Losing the lawsuit can be painful for each party if it's related to their core business. Sometimes, in the end, patent lawsuits are settled out of court.

I don't know anything about the merits of the 3M / XPEL lawsuit, so can by no means make sound statements about it.
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2016, 09:38 PM   #19
SpeedandTechM
Banned
49
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: e36 M3s, e46 M3
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: VA/DC/MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3m3mr View Post
Good feedback. There can't be that many patent attorneys that are also xpel certiifed installers!
Nope, i think Brian would be 1 in a billion.
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2016, 01:57 PM   #20
BEM-S4
Major General
BEM-S4's Avatar
United_States
4515
Rep
8,942
Posts

Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (5)

Not a patent attorney (or an Xpel installer!) but I buy and sell companies for a living and IP ownership and defense is not something these guys take lightly. IP attorneys are a special breed of people that shit gets very complicated and very detailed very quickly.

Hopefully if there is some merit to the claim some sort of licensing arrangement could be worked out as opposed to Xpel going under over this. All depends on exactly what, if anything, is the precise issue. Unfortunately for them it's not a scenario where the end customer would demand a dual source for supply chain purposes and pressure 3M to allow Xpel to stay in the game.
__________________
2022 Macan S
2016 F31 328i xDrive Sport Wagon
2006 E46 330ci ZHP Convertible
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST