[DazC]

Hey guys,

Doing some provisional insurance quotes for my upcoming S8 and finding a massive jump in price when I put VWFS as the registered keeper as opposed to myself.

Can anyone recommend any good insurers or brokers to offer a quote on leased cars.

It jumps by between £400 - £500 just because I am not the registered keeper.

Cheapest price for me as registered keeper = £650. For VWFS as registered keeper it jumps to £1100!!!

Edit to say ive tried Gocompare, Confused.com and Comparethemarket.

Thanks for any assistance.

[workshybum]

I thought with lease cars, you are still the registered keeper, but the finance co. is the registered owner?

Happy to be corrected on this though.

Edit to add: A quick Google search turned up this: http://www.intelligentcarleasing.com...sing-insurance

[DazC]

Thanks and that's makes sense.

Audi have stated the registered owner and keeper need to be VWFS so I'm not sure.

[ciscopete822]

You are registered keeper for duration of lease and VWFS are owner of the car so dont worry , 650 sounds reasonable

[ciscopete822]

this is part of email from leasePlan for my wife's 330d

"Please advise your insurance company that the finance company “LeasePlan” will be the registered owner of your car and you will be the authorised driver and keeper for the duration of your contract. Then ask them to provide a Certificate of Insurance (or proof of insurance if the certificate is not available yet) from the delivery date and email, fax or post this to me asap and prior to delivery."

[DazC]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

You are registered keeper for duration of lease and VWFS are owner of the car so dont worry , 650 sounds reasonable

Thanks buddy.

[DickieGibbo]

Originally Posted by DazC

Thanks buddy.

+1

Premiums are slightly higher if you are not the owner and registered keeper which I found out with my lease plan car.

I found Admiral the best for me, especially on the multi car product and they don't load for not being the registered keeper

Admiral are also okay if you swap your summers for winter tyres too with NIL charge.

Dickie

[xPETEZx]

I have a Lease with VWFS currently, and I am not the Registered Keeper.
I have no V5c or anything.

So would expect your S8 to be the same if also with VWFS?

I found some of the comparison sites dont have an option to put alternate Registered keeper.
So on some of them you have to change it when re-directed to the insures site.

I cant remember which, but Aviva or Direct Line didnt care. I asked there chat as there was no field for keeper, and they said they did not care and private lease etc was all good.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by xPETEZx

I have a Lease with VWFS currently, and I am not the Registered Keeper.
I have no V5c or anything.

So would expect your S8 to be the same if also with VWFS?

I found some of the comparison sites dont have an option to put alternate Registered keeper.
So on some of them you have to change it when re-directed to the insures site.

I cant remember which, but Aviva or Direct Line didnt care. I asked there chat as there was no field for keeper, and they said they did not care and private lease etc was all good.

If you are not the registered keeper then you are breaking the law (so is VWFS or the dealer, but you are the one who would end up in court) :

Section 43c (1(a), 1(b)) of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994.

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by robbiep

If you are not the registered keeper then you are breaking the law (so is VWFS or the dealer, but you are the one who would end up in court) :

Section 43c (1(a), 1(b)) of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994.

Thanks for that.

Why not just quote the text instead of being a pedant?

43COffence of using an incorrectly registered vehicle

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, on a public road or in a public place, he uses a vehicle to which subsection (2) applies and in respect of which—

(a)the name and address of the keeper are not recorded in the register, or

(b)any of the particulars recorded in the register are incorrect.

Dont see how VWFS is breaking any laws here.
Much like Hertz or any other hire company would not be breaking laws.

I am essentially long-term renting a car from them. So they can be the Registered Keeper & Owner.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by xPETEZx

Thanks for that.

Why not just quote the text instead of being a pedant?

43COffence of using an incorrectly registered vehicle

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, on a public road or in a public place, he uses a vehicle to which subsection (2) applies and in respect of which—

(a)the name and address of the keeper are not recorded in the register, or

(b)any of the particulars recorded in the register are incorrect.

Dont see how VWFS is breaking any laws here.
Much like Hertz or any other hire company would not be breaking laws.

I am essentially long-term renting a car from them. So they can be the Registered Keeper & Owner.

They cannot be the registered keeper.

On the same page, it defines 'keeper' in the law

(7)In this section—

“keeper”, in relation to a vehicle, means the person by whom it is kept at the material time

So the keeper, in law, is very clear : It is you.

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by robbiep

They cannot be the registered keeper.

On the same page, it defines 'keeper' in the law

(7)In this section—

“keeper”, in relation to a vehicle, means the person by whom it is kept at the material time

So the keeper, in law, is very clear : It is you.

Hows it work on a rental?

In any case. No point arguing it with me. VWFS I am sure have done the checks to ensure what they are doing is legal. I certainly wont be loosing any sleep over it.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by xPETEZx

Hows it work on a rental?

In any case. No point arguing it with me. VWFS I am sure have done the checks to ensure what they are doing is legal. I certainly wont be loosing any sleep over it.

Stick head in sand and hope for the best ?

Wonderfully responsible attitude !

Bearing in mind VW's history on 'done the checks to ensure it is legal', I'd be rather dubious about that, and asking them to specifically confirm that what they have done complies with the law, and to put in in writing
Or you could ask DVLA. As people have done in the past, and DVLA have confirmed that it is illegal.
A simple internet search would help you to find previous cases.

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Stick head in sand and hope for the best ?

Wonderfully responsible attitude !

Bearing in mind VW's history on 'done the checks to ensure it is legal', I'd be rather dubious about that, and asking them to specifically confirm that what they have done complies with the law, and to put in in writing
Or you could ask DVLA. As people have done in the past, and DVLA have confirmed that it is illegal.
A simple internet search would help you to find previous cases.

What is it with you and pseudo help? You quote EXACT sub sections of an article, but dont quote the text.
Then claim "previous cases" yet again dont actually back that up.

Like I said, clarify how a rental car works? If I rent a car for 2 weeks from Hertz, I am the "keeper" yet no V5c is being updated.
Same should apply to a lease.

I did just take you up on your offer and can find no single case via google of anybody being taken to court because there lease company is the registered keeper.

What a google did reveal however is that this is widespread. Many different leasing outfits do exactly as VWFS.

I am sure they all have not got this collectively wrong.

Stop kicking up a storm over nothing. Or provide some of these "links" to show that is actually a problem.

[robbiep]

Ok. As you seem to be incapable of finding things for yourself, here is an example :

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/an...lding-onto-v5-

Please note the bit where DVLA told the person :

as I am not the registered keeper I am in breach of section 43c of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994 if I continue to driving the car

Here is another one :
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/an...registered-car

Now, I'll let you go and find things out for yourself :

Go and find documents from Derby Crown court - judgement of 12th June, 2012, where the courts confirmed a real risk of prosecution exists, and also risks of insurance failing to pay out if a car is incorrectly registered. Though this was partly done on a basis of cars being 'fleet registered', the exact same principle in law applies.

As I suggested to you previously, why not contact VWFS or DVLA and ask - quite directly - if you not having the V5 in your name is in compliance with Section 43 (c) of the Act ?

[dobbo99]

Are you saying that anyone with a leased/financed/whatever vehicle in the UK and who doesn't have the V5 is driving illegally? As Im sure there is more people than the ones on this thread.

The 2 points/links above seem to be relevant if you purchased a vehicle, ie you bought it to own it.

We had a lease vehicle from Nissan, they were the registered owner and we were just the main driver(s) on the policy. I assume this is because we weren't actually the owner of the vehicle.

[robbiep]

Owner is NOT keeper. The V5 makes no mention at all of lawful ownership. In fact I believe that these days it makes that very clear - that the V5 does not provide any proof of ownership

If you have a vehicle - as in you are in exclusive possession of it for a considerable period of time - then the law is very clear. You are the keeper, and must be registered as such.

What the law (on the statute book) says :

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/43C
----------------------------------------------

43C (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, on a public road or in a public place, he uses a vehicle to which subsection (2) applies and in respect of which—

(a)the name and address of the keeper are not recorded in the register, or
(b)any of the particulars recorded in the register are incorrect.

<Parts 2,3,4,5,6, deal with types of vehicles, defences in the law, levels of fines, etc>

(7)In this section—

“keeper”, in relation to a vehicle, means the person by whom it is kept at the material time;
“the register” means the register kept by the Secretary of State under Part 2.
------------------------------------------
So : the law quite clearly states that if you KEEP a vehicle (ownership is not mentioned in the Act), then the vehicle must be registered (1a above), and you MUST be the registered keeper (1b above, which deals with the register being incorrect)

I'll say it again : feel free to contact DVLA and ask them directly. Or ask the leasing company very directly if the fact that they (and not you) are the registered keeper with DVLA complies with the law.

[DazC]

Gents, thank you for your input to the thread.

It is indeed a point of contention it seems as most leasing companies will hold the V5 during the lease (my current car included).

I'll await delivery of my S8 and begin some further investigation into the legality of the issue.

[Herr Dreier]

[AdmiralGant]

A number of insurers will cover lease vehicles now which never use to, I had a good price from LV and Direct Line on a couple of previous lease vehicles.

Neither vehicle was I the registered keeper, the registered keeper on both occasions was the lease company which is usual. You are effectively hiring the car long term and same if you hire a car off Hertz for a month, they will always be the keeper.

My lease company state if I get a speeding fine etc, it will go to them as the keeper and they will send it on to me with a admin fee

It should not really cost more to insure as it is cheaper to pay out to a lease company in the event of a total loss (write off) claim than to a private vehicle owner.

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Ok. As you seem to be incapable of finding things for yourself, here is an example :

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/an...lding-onto-v5-

Please note the bit where DVLA told the person :

as I am not the registered keeper I am in breach of section 43c of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994 if I continue to driving the car

Here is another one :
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/an...registered-car

Now, I'll let you go and find things out for yourself :

Go and find documents from Derby Crown court - judgement of 12th June, 2012, where the courts confirmed a real risk of prosecution exists, and also risks of insurance failing to pay out if a car is incorrectly registered. Though this was partly done on a basis of cars being 'fleet registered', the exact same principle in law applies.

As I suggested to you previously, why not contact VWFS or DVLA and ask - quite directly - if you not having the V5 in your name is in compliance with Section 43 (c) of the Act ?

That has NOTHING to do with leasing a vehicle.
Both are cases where dealers are trying to pull a fast one on people buying cars from them.
There I can completely understand why they are in breach.

A Lease car is like a Rental car.
You dont get a V5C when you rent a Car from Hertz. No breach there.
Same for the lease.

Also there is NO issues with insurance as long as you declare it. Which is not a problem even when shopping around as most of the comparison sites offer it as an option.