Seriously though, how many tanks is too many?

cptcrunch · 04-04-2016, 08:17 AM

I started my car yesterday after filling up with diesel, with ambient temperature around 42F and *bing* SES light.

Interesting, I thought. I've been getting some Increased Battery Discharge error messages on startup since Thursday, so I wondered what the code was. I've heard about low batteries causing electrical gremlins and the like, so I wanted to read it immediately. I hooked up my OBD2 scanner and launched Torque and

P21A9

You have got to be fucking kidding me. P21A9 is 'urea level sensor fault' and means that my tank is broken, again. I called the dealership this morning and have an appointment for this afternoon. We'll see if this will be the 5th tank in this car, or what they will do. For the record, my 4th was installed in January of this year. The car is a 2011 335d with 66.5k on the odo.

Two questions that I have: a) Will this be covered by BMW goodwill like the last few tanks? This error is different than the previous errors so I'm a bit concerned, and b) Will BMW NA get tired of this car and offer to buy it back from me? I guess we will find out over the next few days or so, but I'm really thinking about calling BMWNA and talking to them about options. I dont know what they can offer me at this point, considering the age and mileage of the car, but seriously, this is getting retankulous.

This car, man this car, has been great. I love this car, but I've had enough with this urea tank BS.

I've already purchased it's replacement, and I leave Friday to go and pick it up in Europe. But once this tank is replaced the 335d has got.to.go.

Sigh

larrysing · 04-04-2016, 08:31 AM

I would contact BMWNA and give them the prior repair information. No way this should cost you a PENNY.

rulonger · 04-04-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

I love this car, but I've had enough with this urea tank BS.

Sounds to me like it is time for a tankectomy

Whitbread · 04-04-2016, 09:15 AM

Yup, I'm with him ^. Fix and enjoy.

Hoooper · 04-04-2016, 02:22 PM

All replacement parts installed at the dealership (aside from consumables) have at least a 2 year warranty.

Your issue is probably in the wiring, not the tank. The tanks are crappy, but not 5 tanks in 5 years crappy.

cptcrunch · 04-04-2016, 04:27 PM

Dropped off at the dealership today and got an i3 loaner (hooray, love these things!). I told my SA that I'm leaving Friday for a 12 day trip to Europe to try and not keep their loaner for 12 days when I wont be using it.

I've thought about removing the urea system and deleting the tank, but I never felt comfortable with it. Oh well, won't be my problem for long.

I'll keep this thread updated and we'll see what they do. I agree that the tank is taking a lot of the blame here, when its been a temperature sensor for the past 4 tanks and not the tank itself, that has been broken. Sadly though, the only "solution" is to just replace the tank.

335dM · 04-04-2016, 05:24 PM

Check for you ground cable from glove box to the battery !
It's known to melt just like mine did last week!
Under warranty but a 4000$ repair
There is a recall for the fuse box cable.
My first symptoms were ( SES battery discharge warning)
Then it literally died!

cptcrunch · 04-06-2016, 04:30 PM

Minor Update: Called the dealership yesterday and spoke with my SA and he said the master tech (who is now assigned to my car and is in Las Vegas for a conference) said that a module they have yet to replace out of all previous warranty/goodwill work, is now broken. They are in contact with BMWNA regarding my re-purchase request/lemon law and will let me know.

So I contacted BMWNA yesterday about a buy-back/re-purchase/lemon law request and I was "escalated" to a resolutions specialist. I'm honestly not expecting them to do anything, but I wanted to try this before selling the vehicle outright. What I'm concerned about is that the next owner is going to buy this thing and its going to require a new tank in Winter. And then maybe a few months later require another part. Then another tank the following winter, and so on, tarnishing the brand for them. It may be considered silly to think about the next owner, but I would not want to buy a lemon and I'd hate to sell one. Trying to keep a clean conscious and all that jazz.

Regarding the warranty on previously replaced parts by BMWNA, I was told that parts that are goodwilled by BMWNA or are replaced under warranty, carry no warranty. But, if BMWNA were to pay 99% of the parts and labor and I pay the 1%, then the part would have a 2 year warranty. I have to imagine (and hoping) that BMWNA is as fed up with this car's emission system as I am, and is willing to buy it back and crush it so no one else has to deal with it and they stop spending $2.5k/year on the vehicle in warranty/goodwill work.

No updates today. I'm leaving Friday afternoon for Europe so the dealership has 1.25 days to fix my car or return it unfix or I'm keeping their loaner while overseas.

cptcrunch · 04-06-2016, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335dM

Check for you ground cable from glove box to the battery !
It's known to melt just like mine did last week!
Under warranty but a 4000$ repair
There is a recall for the fuse box cable.
My first symptoms were ( SES battery discharge warning)
Then it literally died!

I will look into this if/when my car is returned. As far as I know my car is under only one recall: airbag.

cptcrunch · 04-07-2016, 05:07 PM

Dealership called today, replacement part has been approved by the Service Manager. Not sure if BMWNA is goodwilling the part or if the dealership is.

GaryE30 · 04-08-2016, 10:11 AM

I have the Increased Battery Discharge error and I have not yet tested the battery. I'm going to do that and hope its just an old battery causing faults. If not, I'll look into the ground cable next.

007_e350 · 04-08-2016, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335dM

Check for you ground cable from glove box to the battery !
It's known to melt just like mine did last week!
Under warranty but a 4000$ repair
There is a recall for the fuse box cable.
My first symptoms were ( SES battery discharge warning)
Then it literally died!

Can you be more specific where the cable is located, what did you have to remove to get to it ?

cptcrunch · 04-22-2016, 02:17 PM

Just a brief update on this issue:

The issue was not with the urea tank temperature sensor, but another part I can not disclose. BMWNA paid 100% of the cost of the part replacement and labor, and made me sign an NDA regarding the fix. I am unable to talk about what was fixed, the cost, or anything else. Basically, BMWNA knows that this car is a lemon and is no longer willing to pay for any future issues with the emissions systems.

The paperwork I signed was a huge legalese document, most likely a standard NDA document, which absolves BMWNA of any future liability regarding the car. My SA had never seen the document before, nor had the master tech.

That is all I can say about that.

Built4Sin · 04-22-2016, 02:26 PM

Are you still getting rid of the car and if you are can you post the VIN for others to potentially avoid.

Hoooper · 04-22-2016, 02:32 PM

So, im going to say the wiring/connector was found to be the issue and BMW is seeing the writing on the wall that they might be on the hook for a lot of tanks being replaced that werent actually faulty, and maybe on the hook for a "big" recall.

Chief Orman · 04-22-2016, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

Just a brief update on this issue:

The issue was not with the urea tank temperature sensor, but another part I can not disclose. BMWNA paid 100% of the cost of the part replacement and labor, and made me sign an NDA regarding the fix. I am unable to talk about what was fixed, the cost, or anything else. Basically, BMWNA knows that this car is a lemon and is no longer willing to pay for any future issues with the emissions systems.

The paperwork I signed was a huge legalese document, most likely a standard NDA document, which absolves BMWNA of any future liability regarding the car. My SA had never seen the document before, nor had the master tech.

That is all I can say about that.

What complete bullshit. I have never heard of somebody having to sign an NDA after a repair. I wonder if this is some weird behavior on the part of BMW after VW's diesel debacle. Jesus Christ does one now need to call their attorney before having their car repaired?

Twilight1 · 04-23-2016, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

Just a brief update on this issue:

The issue was not with the urea tank temperature sensor, but another part I can not disclose. BMWNA paid 100% of the cost of the part replacement and labor, and made me sign an NDA regarding the fix. I am unable to talk about what was fixed, the cost, or anything else. Basically, BMWNA knows that this car is a lemon and is no longer willing to pay for any future issues with the emissions systems.

The paperwork I signed was a huge legalese document, most likely a standard NDA document, which absolves BMWNA of any future liability regarding the car. My SA had never seen the document before, nor had the master tech.

That is all I can say about that.

Wow, I've have never heard of that in my life.

Whitbread · 04-23-2016, 09:51 AM

Sounds like it's time for a call to Jarek or Bob and to let all the junk fall off.

Twilight1 · 04-23-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitbread

Sounds like it's time for a call to Jarek or Bob and to let all the junk fall off.

Once again, you have to remember that a lot of people don't want a smoky, stinky diesel regardless of the torque. One of the appeals of the 335d was it had none of those characteristics. Everyone should know that before they start ripping stuff off their car.
.

Nadir Point · 04-23-2016, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight1

Once again, you have to remember that a lot of people don't want a smoky, stinky diesel regardless of the torque. One of the appeals of the 335d was it had none of those characteristics. Everyone should know that before they start ripping stuff off their car.
.

Modifying/deleting the emissions equipment does not necessarily result in a "smokey, stinky diesel." Furthermore, the activity involved in doing so normally is accomplished by carefully unbolting, unplugging and re-installing custom hand-built and carefully calibrated replacement parts - not "ripping" stuff off.

Your opinion on the topic is obviously erroneous in numerous ways.

Built4Sin · 04-23-2016, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight1

Once again, you have to remember that a lot of people don't want a smoky, stinky diesel regardless of the torque. One of the appeals of the 335d was it had none of those characteristics. Everyone should know that before they start ripping stuff off their car.
.

I think you're sorely mistaken. We like the car because its a 6cylinder twin turbo diesel, and we could see the tuning potential.

Regular people aren't seeking this car out and looking to the forums for upgrades. That crowd would be the 328d community.

crazyinp · 04-23-2016, 12:37 PM

So basically BMW bought your silence. I would assume they will buy the car back, otherwise there is no reason for you to sign that document and keep the car that you know is a lemon and they won't fix. Or they cut you a check and let you keep the car but won't touch it of something goes wrong. Whatever you did, I am sure you are happy with the outcome.

04-04-2016, 08:17 AM	#1
cptcrunch Captain Crunch 168 Rep 548 Posts Drives: 2016 340i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Cincinnati iTrader: (0)	Seriously though, how many tanks is too many? I started my car yesterday after filling up with diesel, with ambient temperature around 42F and bing SES light. Interesting, I thought. I've been getting some Increased Battery Discharge error messages on startup since Thursday, so I wondered what the code was. I've heard about low batteries causing electrical gremlins and the like, so I wanted to read it immediately. I hooked up my OBD2 scanner and launched Torque and P21A9 You have got to be fucking kidding me. P21A9 is 'urea level sensor fault' and means that my tank is broken, again. I called the dealership this morning and have an appointment for this afternoon. We'll see if this will be the 5th tank in this car, or what they will do. For the record, my 4th was installed in January of this year. The car is a 2011 335d with 66.5k on the odo. Two questions that I have: a) Will this be covered by BMW goodwill like the last few tanks? This error is different than the previous errors so I'm a bit concerned, and b) Will BMW NA get tired of this car and offer to buy it back from me? I guess we will find out over the next few days or so, but I'm really thinking about calling BMWNA and talking to them about options. I dont know what they can offer me at this point, considering the age and mileage of the car, but seriously, this is getting retankulous. This car, man this car, has been great. I love this car, but I've had enough with this urea tank BS. I've already purchased it's replacement, and I leave Friday to go and pick it up in Europe. But once this tank is replaced the 335d has got.to.go. Sigh __________________ On Order (in transit): BMW iX 50, Oxide Grey Retired: BMW Welt Delivery 4/14/16: European Delivery - 2016 340i EBII/Saddle - ZMP \| ZCW \| ZDA \| ZLP \| ZTP \| M Adaptive \| Rear Shades \| MPPSK Before and After Dyno Retired: 2011 335D Space Grey/Black - ZSP \| ZPP \| ZCW \| 6FL \| Sat Radio \| Nav \| $600 Base Audio Upgrade
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04-04-2016, 08:31 AM	#2
larrysing First Lieutenant 95 Rep 308 Posts Drives: 2011 335d M-Sport, Nav/Blinds Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Arlington, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 335d [0.00]	I would contact BMWNA and give them the prior repair information. No way this should cost you a PENNY.
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04-04-2016, 09:15 AM	#4
Whitbread Banned 144 Rep 316 Posts Drives: 335D Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Gaylord, MI iTrader: (0)	Yup, I'm with him ^. Fix and enjoy.
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04-04-2016, 02:22 PM	#5
Hoooper Colonel 213 Rep 2,210 Posts Drives: 335D Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Petaluma, CA iTrader: (0)	All replacement parts installed at the dealership (aside from consumables) have at least a 2 year warranty. Your issue is probably in the wiring, not the tank. The tanks are crappy, but not 5 tanks in 5 years crappy.
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04-04-2016, 04:27 PM	#6
cptcrunch Captain Crunch 168 Rep 548 Posts Drives: 2016 340i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Cincinnati iTrader: (0)	Dropped off at the dealership today and got an i3 loaner (hooray, love these things!). I told my SA that I'm leaving Friday for a 12 day trip to Europe to try and not keep their loaner for 12 days when I wont be using it. I've thought about removing the urea system and deleting the tank, but I never felt comfortable with it. Oh well, won't be my problem for long. I'll keep this thread updated and we'll see what they do. I agree that the tank is taking a lot of the blame here, when its been a temperature sensor for the past 4 tanks and not the tank itself, that has been broken. Sadly though, the only "solution" is to just replace the tank. __________________ On Order (in transit): BMW iX 50, Oxide Grey Retired: BMW Welt Delivery 4/14/16: European Delivery - 2016 340i EBII/Saddle - ZMP \| ZCW \| ZDA \| ZLP \| ZTP \| M Adaptive \| Rear Shades \| MPPSK Before and After Dyno Retired: 2011 335D Space Grey/Black - ZSP \| ZPP \| ZCW \| 6FL \| Sat Radio \| Nav \| $600 Base Audio Upgrade
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04-04-2016, 05:24 PM	#7
335dM Major 128 Rep 1,362 Posts Drives: 335d m package Join Date: May 2011 Location: montreal iTrader: (0)	Check for you ground cable from glove box to the battery ! It's known to melt just like mine did last week! Under warranty but a 4000$ repair There is a recall for the fuse box cable. My first symptoms were ( SES battery discharge warning) Then it literally died!
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04-06-2016, 04:30 PM	#8
cptcrunch Captain Crunch 168 Rep 548 Posts Drives: 2016 340i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Cincinnati iTrader: (0)	Minor Update: Called the dealership yesterday and spoke with my SA and he said the master tech (who is now assigned to my car and is in Las Vegas for a conference) said that a module they have yet to replace out of all previous warranty/goodwill work, is now broken. They are in contact with BMWNA regarding my re-purchase request/lemon law and will let me know. So I contacted BMWNA yesterday about a buy-back/re-purchase/lemon law request and I was "escalated" to a resolutions specialist. I'm honestly not expecting them to do anything, but I wanted to try this before selling the vehicle outright. What I'm concerned about is that the next owner is going to buy this thing and its going to require a new tank in Winter. And then maybe a few months later require another part. Then another tank the following winter, and so on, tarnishing the brand for them. It may be considered silly to think about the next owner, but I would not want to buy a lemon and I'd hate to sell one. Trying to keep a clean conscious and all that jazz. Regarding the warranty on previously replaced parts by BMWNA, I was told that parts that are goodwilled by BMWNA or are replaced under warranty, carry no warranty. But, if BMWNA were to pay 99% of the parts and labor and I pay the 1%, then the part would have a 2 year warranty. I have to imagine (and hoping) that BMWNA is as fed up with this car's emission system as I am, and is willing to buy it back and crush it so no one else has to deal with it and they stop spending $2.5k/year on the vehicle in warranty/goodwill work. No updates today. I'm leaving Friday afternoon for Europe so the dealership has 1.25 days to fix my car or return it unfix or I'm keeping their loaner while overseas. __________________ On Order (in transit): BMW iX 50, Oxide Grey Retired: BMW Welt Delivery 4/14/16: European Delivery - 2016 340i EBII/Saddle - ZMP \| ZCW \| ZDA \| ZLP \| ZTP \| M Adaptive \| Rear Shades \| MPPSK Before and After Dyno Retired: 2011 335D Space Grey/Black - ZSP \| ZPP \| ZCW \| 6FL \| Sat Radio \| Nav \| $600 Base Audio Upgrade
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04-07-2016, 05:07 PM	#10
cptcrunch Captain Crunch 168 Rep 548 Posts Drives: 2016 340i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Cincinnati iTrader: (0)	Dealership called today, replacement part has been approved by the Service Manager. Not sure if BMWNA is goodwilling the part or if the dealership is. __________________ On Order (in transit): BMW iX 50, Oxide Grey Retired: BMW Welt Delivery 4/14/16: European Delivery - 2016 340i EBII/Saddle - ZMP \| ZCW \| ZDA \| ZLP \| ZTP \| M Adaptive \| Rear Shades \| MPPSK Before and After Dyno Retired: 2011 335D Space Grey/Black - ZSP \| ZPP \| ZCW \| 6FL \| Sat Radio \| Nav \| $600 Base Audio Upgrade
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04-08-2016, 10:11 AM	#11
GaryE30 COAL FED 74 Rep 300 Posts Drives: 335d, M3, X5 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Easley, SC iTrader: (0)	I have the Increased Battery Discharge error and I have not yet tested the battery. I'm going to do that and hope its just an old battery causing faults. If not, I'll look into the ground cable next. __________________
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04-22-2016, 02:17 PM	#13
cptcrunch Captain Crunch 168 Rep 548 Posts Drives: 2016 340i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Cincinnati iTrader: (0)	Just a brief update on this issue: The issue was not with the urea tank temperature sensor, but another part I can not disclose. BMWNA paid 100% of the cost of the part replacement and labor, and made me sign an NDA regarding the fix. I am unable to talk about what was fixed, the cost, or anything else. Basically, BMWNA knows that this car is a lemon and is no longer willing to pay for any future issues with the emissions systems. The paperwork I signed was a huge legalese document, most likely a standard NDA document, which absolves BMWNA of any future liability regarding the car. My SA had never seen the document before, nor had the master tech. That is all I can say about that. __________________ On Order (in transit): BMW iX 50, Oxide Grey Retired: BMW Welt Delivery 4/14/16: European Delivery - 2016 340i EBII/Saddle - ZMP \| ZCW \| ZDA \| ZLP \| ZTP \| M Adaptive \| Rear Shades \| MPPSK Before and After Dyno Retired: 2011 335D Space Grey/Black - ZSP \| ZPP \| ZCW \| 6FL \| Sat Radio \| Nav \| $600 Base Audio Upgrade
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04-22-2016, 02:26 PM	#14
Built4Sin TL/DR 57 Rep 234 Posts Drives: 2009 335d Sport Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arizona iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW 335D [9.00] 2014 Audi Q7 TDI [0.00]	Are you still getting rid of the car and if you are can you post the VIN for others to potentially avoid.
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04-22-2016, 02:32 PM	#15
Hoooper Colonel 213 Rep 2,210 Posts Drives: 335D Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Petaluma, CA iTrader: (0)	So, im going to say the wiring/connector was found to be the issue and BMW is seeing the writing on the wall that they might be on the hook for a lot of tanks being replaced that werent actually faulty, and maybe on the hook for a "big" recall.
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04-23-2016, 09:51 AM	#18
Whitbread Banned 144 Rep 316 Posts Drives: 335D Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Gaylord, MI iTrader: (0)	Sounds like it's time for a call to Jarek or Bob and to let all the junk fall off.
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04-23-2016, 12:37 PM	#22
crazyinp Major 298 Rep 1,245 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (5) Garage List 2022 BMW X5e [0.00] 2023 BMW X5M [0.00]	So basically BMW bought your silence. I would assume they will buy the car back, otherwise there is no reason for you to sign that document and keep the car that you know is a lemon and they won't fix. Or they cut you a check and let you keep the car but won't touch it of something goes wrong. Whatever you did, I am sure you are happy with the outcome.
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