[Tengocity]

Curious as to whether people are supportive of this policy that came in to effect yesterday, raising the minimum wage?

[R0B]

Totally supportive. While I don't subscribe to the left-wing theory that anyone earning top money is a fraudster, I do think the minimum wage isn't enough to put food on the table.

[Tengocity]

Have to say I like it, even if it means that costs to consumers have to rise- better this way through discretionary spending than subsidising through benefits and thus via direct taxation.

If we had restrictive labour laws like in France for example then I imagine it could impact employment levels, but we don't and the flexible labour market should hopefully mean that we can have better low paid workers and still almost full employment.

[jnismith]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Have to say I like it, even if it means that costs to consumers have to rise- better this way through discretionary spending than subsidising through benefits and thus via direct taxation.

Absolutely. I volunteer at Citizens Advice giving help on benefits, debts etc. The number of people who are on minimum wage (topped up by Working Tax Credits) working for big companies like Ocado is astonishing. We as taxpayers are just subsidising the companies to keep wages low. If we can push up the minimum wage towards £10 then there will be huge savings in Working Tax Credits. Now what the net effect of this is on low wage earners, I havent calculated. But I don't see why the taxpayer should subsidise big companies.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by jnismith

Absolutely. I volunteer at Citizens Advice giving help on benefits, debts etc. The number of people who are on minimum wage (topped up by Working Tax Credits) working for big companies like Ocado is astonishing. We as taxpayers are just subsidising the companies to keep wages low. If we can push up the minimum wage towards £10 then there will be huge savings in Working Tax Credits. Now what the net effect of this is on low wage earners, I havent calculated. But I don't see why the taxpayer should subsidise big companies.

Curious as to how you got in to that volunteering? I'd like to do something like that at some point in my life. I once worked as a volunteer in a charity shop but it was ultimately really boring and I realised that I was better off just doing my job and donating more. But I imagine truly giving something and helping directly is much more rewarding?

[Watsey]

Very supportive.

Increased incentive to work is better for the individual, better for the economy and better for public finances.

Whether the Living Wage is at the right level is s different question, but the principle is sound.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Curious as to how you got in to that volunteering? I'd like to do something like that at some point in my life. I once worked as a volunteer in a charity shop but it was ultimately really boring and I realised that I was better off just doing my job and donating more. But I imagine truly giving something and helping directly is much more rewarding?

Walk into your local CAB and say you're interested.

That's all I did, back when I was running my own company - which basically ran itself 3-4 days a week, and I always found golf boring !

[Kal101]

My only concern is that it's reducing the differential between skilled and non skilled vocations

How long before it comes why take on the extra responsibility etc etc for only £X an hour before tax NI etc

[Tom Tallon]

Originally Posted by Robbo

Totally supportive. While I don't subscribe to the left-wing theory that anyone earning top money is a fraudster, I do think the minimum wage isn't enough to put food on the table.

With you here Robbo.

My big pissed off comment of the loony left is why they think any hard working chap in London earning 50,000 a year, trying to run a nice car and buy a nice house for his family is a plutocrat. Agree that a number of millionaires will gain from raising 50% band but for each of them there are hundreds of hard workers, including on this forum, trying to make a success of their lives.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Kal001

My only concern is that it's reducing the differential between skilled and non skilled vocations

How long before it comes why take on the extra responsibility etc etc for only £X an hour before tax NI etc

That's a real risk and I was listening to some business people discussing it on the radio and one chap was adamant that maintaining differentials was important to overall morale, aspiration and motivation that he was going to raise all salaries at the lower end of the pay scale in his organisation.

[Watsey]

Do we really think that £7.20 an hour is approaching the remuneration for skilled labour in the genuine meaning of the term ?

Commoditisation is a risk and an increasing trend for many professions, but I see that as somewhat different - earning the Living Wage does not make one a skilled worker.

[SDH]

Originally Posted by jnismith

Absolutely. I volunteer at Citizens Advice giving help on benefits, debts etc. The number of people who are on minimum wage (topped up by Working Tax Credits) working for big companies like Ocado is astonishing. We as taxpayers are just subsidising the companies to keep wages low. If we can push up the minimum wage towards £10 then there will be huge savings in Working Tax Credits. Now what the net effect of this is on low wage earners, I havent calculated. But I don't see why the taxpayer should subsidise big companies.

That is a very good point, hadnt thought of that

I was all for it (apart from small companies maybe being forced to lay off some employees) but now it seems like a wonderful thing with your point in mind. I suppose time will tell overall

[....,,,,..,,..]

I am for it, however it does move unskilled work much closer to semi skilled.

Without getting in to a job knocking thing.

You potentially have issue of cleaner at BMW being paid same as receptionist / service desk person.

So then you have to increase their level to keep a reasonable gap.

So yes I am for it and it should be rigidly enforced, firms not paying it fined.

Admittedly, prices will go up to offset this, so those on the living wage will likely not see realistic jump.

For example, bus fare goes up as bus company now has higher wage bill to cover...

[NISFAN]

It is socialist and as has been proven in all communistic regimes a flawed system. Less jobs, less motivation, higher labour rates in a country already struggling in labour intensive industries. Absurd.

[Wills2]

A good thing I'm sick of our taxes being used to subsidise private companies.

We need more money in the economy, the asset price bubble we have at the moment isn't going to get us anywhere, I need people in the shops with money to spend buying my products.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

It is socialist and as has been proven in all communistic regimes a flawed system. Less jobs, less motivation, higher labour rates in a country already struggling in labour intensive industries. Absurd.

There's a big difference between communism and socialist type policies, and the minimum wage itself has proven to be a good policy most people would agree. As long as the level isn't set too high, and it gets more people out of working benefits then this could really have more conservative outcomes than one might think.
It may also get more Brits to work full-time rather than part time and to do the jobs that currently seem to be filled by immigrants then that may also be helpful.
A lack of dirt cheap labour may also encourage companies to invest more and help raise overall productivity.

[Consett Mag]

I was already supportive of it, and the points above re-enforce my position.

But the unskilled / semi skilled can get mighty close. My wife is a bit unhappy with her lot as a teaching assist in a nursery and reception class, as the council have just cut every classroom assistants' salary by about £2000 per year (to £16k/ year) to bring them on par with cleaners, dinner ladies and lollypop road crossing staff - as the council feel their two years of training at college counts for nothing really.

So she must continue to teach children, often without supervision on all the days and half days where there are no qualified teachers (on £25k/ year) in class, and cannot have any holidays outside of term time (which is the worst perk).

I sadly can't get her to quit as she likes teaching little ones.

On the point of £7.20 /hour. I would pay a tad more for my pub meals towards these bunch of folks without hesitation.

[AlfaM]

Daily Mail Grenade - The UK living/minimum wage is now 3 1/2 times the average wage in Romania and double that of Poland!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

There's a big difference between communism and socialist type policies, and the minimum wage itself has proven to be a good policy most people would agree. As long as the level isn't set too high, and it gets more people out of working benefits then this could really have more conservative outcomes than one might think.
It may also get more Brits to work full-time rather than part time and to do the jobs that currently seem to be filled by immigrants then that may also be helpful.
A lack of dirt cheap labour may also encourage companies to invest more and help raise overall productivity.

Most white collar people would agree perhaps, but ultimately it means less companies will be willing to take on employees (there is already so much red tape in doing so), meaning less jobs not more. It is just a band aid to cover up a ridiculous social benefits system, where you get paid well to stay at home.

As an employee, it is your choice to work for x pound an hour. The government have now declared that there are no £5/hr jobs, or £6/hr, etc.

As I say it just makes manufacturing and farming in Britain uneconomic, so more steel factories are going to close which means? Bingo!! more people on benefits. Genius.

It also has a knock on effect as mentioned, the guy that started in a factory at £5/hr a few years ago and has now 3-4 years of experience under his belt, worked his/her way up to £7.50/hr, now a 1 day old noob is earning 20 pence less. How will they feel about that? Motivated? Valued?

If people are prepared to work for £6/hr because of whatever reasons, why can't they? It's their choice to do so.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Most white collar people would agree perhaps, but ultimately it means less companies will be willing to take on employees (there is already so much red tape in doing so), meaning less jobs not more. It is just a band aid to cover up a ridiculous social benefits system, where you get paid well to stay at home.

As an employee, it is your choice to work for x pound an hour. The government have now declared that there are no £5/hr jobs, or £6/hr, etc.

As I say it just makes manufacturing and farming in Britain uneconomic, so more steel factories are going to close which means? Bingo!! more people on benefits. Genius.

It also has a knock on effect as mentioned, the guy that started in a factory at £5/hr a few years ago and has now 3-4 years of experience under his belt, worked his/her way up to £7.50/hr, now a 1 day old noob is earning 20 pence less. How will they feel about that? Motivated? Valued?

If people are prepared to work for £6/hr because of whatever reasons, why can't they? It's their choice to do so.

Except those people are just often choosing not to work or due to the distorting effects of tax credits they work part time to retain benefits. All this suggests the incentives to work for the lower paid as things stand now are poor anyway.
I understand your point on it potentially making some industries less competitive v foreign industries with even cheaper labour markets, but that's a horse that's already bolted. In reality there are far more low paid workers in jobs that can't moved abroad like care workers, service staff in hotels, restaurants, shop workers etc.

[dazzapb]

I support it on the surface but who knows the full effects. We do need to encourage work and the absurd levels of 'in work' benefits and taking a huge portion of the welfare bill.

Working single parent can do the magic 24 hours min to get working tax credits. Employers love it, force part time - 4 hour shifts, no breaks and pay little. It will be topped up by the state. A single parent working 24 hours £7ph 2 kids - take home 34k before tax! More than 2 parents working for 70 hours combined!!!

http://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/th...t-tax-credits/

I can't help feeling this situation with cost of living crisis stems from the obsession by Govt and the population with property (Homes under hammer generation) and the outrageous cost of housing. It impacts us in so many ways (childcare costs, ecomony). In the real world 20 x annual avg salary for a barrart shit box. What is going on! People on the min wage rely on taxpayer subsidies to pay private landlords who could have obtained the property via right to buy for a song and renting it back the council. Baby boomers will say it was always tough but its impossible now. I say this having bought in London 5 years ago. It started in 1996-2006 tripling of house prices with Gordon smashing up pensions and no one has done anything about it apart from trying to keep them high, ZIRP, help to buy, shared ownership yada yada
Look at this from shelter:

If grocery prices had increased at the same rate as house prices since 1971, then:
A 4-pint carton of milk would cost £10.45
A chicken would cost £51.18
A bunch of 6 bananas would cost £8.47
A box of 6 eggs would cost £5.01
A loaf of sliced white bread would cost £4.36
A leg of lamb would cost £53.18
The average weekly expenditure on food for a family of four would be £453.23.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by dazzapb

I support it on the surface but who knows the full effects. We do need to encourage work and the absurd levels of 'in work' benefits and taking a huge portion of the welfare bill.

Working parents in the can do the 16 hours min to get working tax credits. Employers love it, force part time - 4 hour shifts, no breaks and pay little. It will be topped up by the state.

http://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/th...t-tax-credits/

I can't help feeling this situation with cost of living crisis seems from the obsession by Govt and the population with property (Homes under hammer generation) and the outrageous cost of housing. It impacts us in so many ways (childcare costs, ecomony). In the real world 20 x annual avg salary for a barrart shit box. What is going on! People on the min wage rely on taxpayer subsidies to pay private landlords who could have obtained the property via right to buy for a song and renting it back the council. Baby boomers will say it was always tough but its impossible now. I say this having bought in London 5 years ago. It started in 1996-2006 tripling of house prices with Gordon smashing up pensions and no one has done anything about it apart from trying to keep them high, ZIRP, help to buy, shared ownership yada yada
Look at this from shelter:

grocery prices had increased at the same rate as house prices since 1971, then:
A 4-pint carton of milk would cost £10.45
A chicken would cost £51.18
A bunch of 6 bananas would cost £8.47
A box of 6 eggs would cost £5.01
A loaf of sliced white bread would cost £4.36
A leg of lamb would cost £53.18
The average weekly expenditure on food for a family of four would be £453.23.

Slightly off topic but I agree it's a massive issue. The biggest issue though is the planning system and the power it gives to NIMBYism, where no one wants new houses built near their village, school etc. as of course once you're on the property ladder you want it to continue. The other aspect is of course the preservation of the so called green belt. Personally, if the green belt was nice woods, heaths, common land then I could understand but mostly it's just fields, growing stuff that's often massively subsidised.
Instead we could develop a new generation of new towns and garden cities and re invest in the infrastructure of country like the Victorians did, but that would take a long term perspective way beyond the current 5 year political cycles.