[....,,,,..,,..]

As mentioned previously, keyless entry is a risk with modern cars.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...o-keyless-cars

While the 3 series is not on the list the 7 series is, I don't imagine for one minute the 3 is that much more secure.

I wonder if going forward insurers put a higher price tag on cars with comfort access?

[SkyJawa]

Used cars with it, don't care about it, which is good as I've always thought it didn't seem secure.

[allachie9]

Originally Posted by Brigand

As mentioned previously, keyless entry is a risk with modern cars.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...o-keyless-cars

While the 3 series is not on the list the 7 series is, I don't imagine for one minute the 3 is that much more secure.

I wonder if going forward insurers put a higher price tag on cars with comfort access?

Just read the article, I hope you're wrong about insurance hikes for us comfort access users, but as insurers are always keen to up our premiums anyway, you never know.

One question Mr Buccaneer :
OK, if they open and start the car using a 'range extender', what happens when they stop and switch the engine off ?
Can they then restart it ?

[gembrain]

As I understand it they are amplifying the signal from the key fob so they need to be very close to it. Probably still better than using the remote to lock/unlock the car?

It does still stagger me just how car manufacturers think. It seems to be user convenience first and then think about security afterwards!

Like the BMW Connected Drive issue where they didn't enable full security on all data transmission until it was pointed out to them....

[Kal101]

Don't have ( I think) or want connected drive

Definitely wouldn't want keyless entry

Find it comforting when you lock a car and can check op it's locked by trying the handle

Bigger issue also is with keyless entry is that if you're close to your car anyone can open the car

[Rukka]

Originally Posted by Kal001

Don't have ( I think) or want connected drive

Definitely wouldn't want keyless entry

Find it comforting when you lock a car and can check op it's locked by trying the handle

Bigger issue also is with keyless entry is that if you're close to your car anyone can open the car

You have to be within a couple of feet of the sensor though. So, if you are stood at the drivers door, the key only talks to the sensor on that door. Your Mrs (or an opportunist) can't open the passenger door or boot.

So anyone looking to jump in your car would be no better off if you were using comfort access than any other system (remote unlock or key) - they would still need to shove you out of the way.

If anything, this would make Comfort Access safer surely? How many people unlock the car via remote as they approach it?

At least with comfort access you have to be within a foot or so or actually have your hand on the handle before it unlocks :


.

[RobUK]

Same with the IT world - more convenience equals less security.

Had Comfort Access on my 1 Series and wasn't really that taken with it. Yes it was nice to be able to just walk up to the car and open the door, but locking it was a hit and miss affair, pressing the little ridges in the right spot (pressing the keyfob is just as easy). Also, the constant locking/unlocking of the doors when washing the car if you had the key in your pocket. Left it off the spec list on my last 2 cars.

Wonder if something like Apple's Touch ID built into the start button would be a viable solution? Car won't start unless a recognised digit presses the button, or it's in 'valet' mode? Not perfect but surely car manufacturers could come up with some sort of system?

[HighlandPete]

I observed a strange unlocking issue just yesterday. Was walking by a car and the owner used his remote to unlock. What amazed me, he also unlocked another car just two cars away from his. My first thought was "where is the other owner?", no one else about. The guy got into his car started up and was off, totally oblivious to what he'd also done. Cars weren't even from the same manufacturer.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Same with the IT world - more convenience equals less security.

Had Comfort Access on my 1 Series and wasn't really that taken with it. Yes it was nice to be able to just walk up to the car and open the door, but locking it was a hit and miss affair, pressing the little ridges in the right spot (pressing the keyfob is just as easy). Also, the constant locking/unlocking of the doors when washing the car if you had the key in your pocket. Left it off the spec list on my last 2 cars.

Wonder if something like Apple's Touch ID built into the start button would be a viable solution? Car won't start unless a recognised digit presses the button, or it's in 'valet' mode? Not perfect but surely car manufacturers could come up with some sort of system?

On the IT security front, I was at this meeting the other day, IT manager going on about new high tech security password function etc, I explained that my low tech method would get his secure high tech laptop password.



I took out a pair of pliers and a leatherman from my bag and asked which of his fingers was first...

I reckon by 2nd finger most people will be telling you the password

High tech is good, however it's understanding the threats and risks that counts.

[Al335d]

A more detailed article from in the telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...s-through-the/

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by Brigand

On the IT security front, I was at this meeting the other day, IT manager going on about new high tech security password function etc, I explained that my low tech method would get his secure high tech laptop password.



I took out a pair of pliers and a leatherman from my bag and asked which of his fingers was first...

I reckon by 2nd finger most people will be telling you the password

High tech is good, however it's understanding the threats and risks that counts.

Thats not really a true test of high-tech passwords is it?

What decent authentication / password methods are for is to prevent remote attacks. High-tech criminals operate remotely anywhere in the world.
They are not physically near you.

These same people would have no issue performing a cyber attack from the comfort of there home. But threatening somebody with a leatherman and removal of fingers is a TOTALLY different catergory of crime.
Firstly it requires close physical contact with your victim.

The same is true with these thefts of keyless.
It allows the thieves to completely avoid any physical break-in or confrontation.
They dont need to break a window. They dont need to search your home. They dont need to threaten you.
Hell they dont even need to break the car window as they did with the previous ODB thefts.

Very clean.

Makes me glad on the one hand that my current car has a traditional key.
Just means if they really want mine, they will end up breaking into my house.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by xPETEZx

Thats not really a true test of high-tech passwords is it?

What decent authentication / password methods are for is to prevent remote attacks. High-tech criminals operate remotely anywhere in the world.
They are not physically near you.

These same people would have no issue performing a cyber attack from the comfort of there home. But threatening somebody with a leatherman and removal of fingers is a TOTALLY different catergory of crime.
Firstly it requires close physical contact with your victim.

The same is true with these thefts of keyless.
It allows the thieves to completely avoid any physical break-in or confrontation.
They dont need to break a window. They dont need to search your home. They dont need to threaten you.
Hell they dont even need to break the car window as they did with the previous ODB thefts.

Very clean.

Makes me glad on the one hand that my current car has a traditional key.
Just means if they really want mine, they will end up breaking into my house.

It works very well for laptop and mobile phone passwords.

For remote server style attacks yes, high tech works.

For ransomware, it is usually very local (other than big companies), a large number of small firms are hit for smaller amounts and don't declare (not publicly)

As technology makes it harder to hack, people become even more the weakest link.

[xPETEZx]

Originally Posted by Brigand

It works very well for laptop and mobile phone passwords.

For remote server style attacks yes, high tech works.

For ransomware, it is usually very local (other than big companies), a large number of small firms are hit for smaller amounts and don't declare (not publicly)

As technology makes it harder to hack, people become even more the weakest link.

What?

How does it work well for Laptops & Phones?

The crime of 'theft' is much much lower on the scale than holding somebody against there will and threatening extreme physical violence.
Especially when what would they gain? Access to the family photos?

Your extreme violence method of attack works on pretty much EVERY security measure.
Nobody will risk loosing there fingers over access to a laptop, keys to a car, keys to your house.
So its a really terrible example of how to beat high-tech security.
A.) Its goes MUCH further than your average criminal would go. (And would carry a much higher sentence if cought)
B.) It dosent work just against high-tech. It works on low Tech house keys too. If you threaten to chop a finger off you can bet whoever it is will hand over the keys.

In any case, bringing this back to topic:

It does seem that car manufactures have largely replaced security with convenience.
Its a terrible state of affairs when it is possible to steal a modern car without having to break a window, steal a key or threaten anybody.
Compare that to a car with a traditional key and I think the preferred method to stealing these is breaking and entering to get the key.

Seems there was a 'sweet spot' of car security. In the '80s it was all to easy to hot wire a car. The '90s saw the keys with chips in. And now we have keyless...

Always wondered why cars dont use the "Something you have (a Key) and something you know (like a pin)" approach to security.

You could have a 4 digit pin to go with your key.
This way you could even have an "underduress" pin to give to a theif which allows the car to drive off, but 2-3 miles down the road it throws up "engine failure" codes and stops or similar.
Could then also have a 'valet / seriving' PIN which could limit the engine power etc. anyways...day dreaming...

[ep22jg]

The trouble with all these security measure, is there will always need to be an override.
when keys are lost, pins forgotten etc.

These overrides will always get into the wrong hands at some point!

Just read that back and bloody hell it sounds gloomy!!!
Don't talk to me about life!!!