[BarryJI]

Well it's not going to be street-legal in CA yet and it's kind of bonkers, but here is how it breaks down:

(I am linking to the N20 version, as I have a 228i, albeit with the N26):

Big Turbo: $1299.00

Supplemental Hardware Kit: $109.00

Intercooler: $953.00

Stage 4 Dinantronics tune: $2051.00

The tune is not yet featured on the Dinan web site but the newsletter claims 345 HP, 336 lb-ft torque for the 228i, at the crank, I assume. Also, I do not see the CAI listed yet. Apparently all these components will be on the market April 1st.

Without the CAI I make that $3459 for the parts. My tech's spitball number for labor is $2000, so this would be a $5.5K upgrade, minus CAI.

What do you think? Perhaps we can avoid all the predictable flaming of Dinan for their above-average prices and discuss the benefits and practicality of these upgrades. Is there any earthly use whatsoever of this setup on the street? I do not get much opportunity to spin the N26 up to between its current peak torque (with Dinan S1 tune) of 5500 RPM and redline, which is where most of the enhanced power will kick in. I don't even know if any of it will work for the N26 SULEV engine. Dinan?

Anyway, I think it's probably too rich even for my Dinan diet but what do you all think?

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Well it's not going to be street-legal in CA yet and it's kind of bonkers, but here is how it breaks down:

(I am linking to the N20 version, as I have a 228i, albeit with the N26):

Big Turbo: $1299.00

Supplemental Hardware Kit: $109.00

Intercooler: $953.00

Stage 4 Dinantronics tune: $2051.00

The tune is not yet featured on the Dinan web site but the newsletter claims 345 HP, 336 lb-ft torque for the 228i, at the crank, I assume. Also, I do not see the CAI listed yet. Apparently all these components will be on the market April 1st.

Without the CAI I make that $3459 for the parts. My tech's spitball number for labor is $2000, so this would be a $5.5K upgrade, minus CAI.

What do you think? Perhaps we can avoid all the predictable flaming of Dinan for their above-average prices and discuss the benefits and practicality of these upgrades. Is there any earthly use whatsoever of this setup on the street? I do not get much opportunity to spin the N26 up to between its current peak torque (with Dinan S1 tune) of 5500 RPM and redline, which is where most of the enhanced power will kick in. I don't even know if any of it will work for the N26 SULEV engine. Dinan?

Anyway, I think it's probably too rich even for my Dinan diet but what do you all think?

I would be worried about the longevity of the N20/N26 with those kind of numbers. That would be my first concern.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

I would be worried about the longevity of the N20/N26 with those kind of numbers. That would be my first concern.

Yup, mine too. I like an aggressively set up car but I don't want to kill it. It's a small engine for all that output.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Yup, mine too. I like an aggressively set up car but I don't want to kill it. It's a small engine for all that output.

I'm not sure why you'd jump there so quickly - Dinan has a lot of experience with these cars - they could likely have gone higher but it would have been less stable.

Big turbo 2.0L engines have existed for the past 20+ years making silly amounts of power. You are talking about a setup that has benefit from 20 years of internal combustion improvement and engineering. The thing that usually causes a motor to "go" is detonation. Todays ECU and knock sensors are tuned to so quickly thwart any of that the risk of blowing something big time is greatly reduced - for the same reason if you put 87 octane in your car, it would also not explode. The car would pull timing to adjust before the engine has a chance to do something bad.

I knew a number of guys making 500-700hp on ~2.0L engines in college. You have the Nissan SR20DET (240SX), the Mitsu 4G63 (Evo/Eclipse), the VW 1.8T, the Subaru EJ20T, and all of those engines would do ~400hp on stock internals.

As far as reliability goes, the reality is your engine doesn't spend much time at the high end of the RPM spectrum. The amount of life you take off by turning up the boost is so negligible that if you are serious enough to consider modding your car to 350+hp, you'll probably end up getting bored and selling it for something faster within 3 years - so who cares about the bearing wear @ 200k miles?

And if you want to see what a 670whp 2.0L turbo motor looks like:

(#college)

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Well it's not going to be street-legal in CA yet and it's kind of bonkers, but here is how it breaks down:

(I am linking to the N20 version, as I have a 228i, albeit with the N26):

Big Turbo: $1299.00

Supplemental Hardware Kit: $109.00

Intercooler: $953.00

Stage 4 Dinantronics tune: $2051.00

The tune is not yet featured on the Dinan web site but the newsletter claims 345 HP, 336 lb-ft torque for the 228i, at the crank, I assume. Also, I do not see the CAI listed yet. Apparently all these components will be on the market April 1st.

Without the CAI I make that $3459 for the parts. My tech's spitball number for labor is $2000, so this would be a $5.5K upgrade, minus CAI.

What do you think? Perhaps we can avoid all the predictable flaming of Dinan for their above-average prices and discuss the benefits and practicality of these upgrades. Is there any earthly use whatsoever of this setup on the street? I do not get much opportunity to spin the N26 up to between its current peak torque (with Dinan S1 tune) of 5500 RPM and redline, which is where most of the enhanced power will kick in. I don't even know if any of it will work for the N26 SULEV engine. Dinan?

Anyway, I think it's probably too rich even for my Dinan diet but what do you all think?

Couple things:

1. The EWG variant is not available yet hence why you don't see it on the 228i page which only utilizes an electronic wastegate.

2. Would the turbo fit in the N26 engine? Most likely. But we have no intention of finding out or offering a big turbo setup/tune for the N26. The simple reason being the cost to put it through CARB given the limited demand for that engine outweighs the benefits. Not to mention there is beyond a 75% chance that it would not be able to be CARB approved given the ridiculous requirements with the SULEV engine. The margin for acceptance there is just too small.

3. The big turbo setup in general though is not really meant for the street as it would be hard to realize the additional gains for any meaningful amount of time. Its really more for the avid track rat, drag racer, and those that just want the most they can get.

4. Reliability wise this setup has been on our first N20 test street car for nearly 10,000 miles without hiccups. The turbo setup is also part of our ST race car engine program (228i) that will be debuting at Laguna Seca this month. All those trials have went beautifully without incident as well and the car is pushed harder there. Not to mention we still have the factory matching warranty in place and that applies to the turbos and incidental damage as well. Must have some confidence. =)

5. Cost wise Barry, you would only be paying $500 for the tune when jumping from stage 1. When upgrading you only pay the difference in cost. Your upgrade cost would be $2861 + labor. Not quite as bad.

6. The 4 cylinder we have officially abandoned attempts at the intake. With the incredibly limited gains we were able to achieve with our development and the cost associated with tooling and what not we just didnt think we could make any money from it. Why bother making something that performance wise gives you next to nothing? There's no reason is our answer. So we aren't.

[BarryJI]

This is such useful information. Cyberdemon, your points are very well taken.

As always, I am impressed by Dinan's vigilance here on the Bimmerpost forums. Your response to my post is really authoritative. I just have a couple of questions/observations in response:

- I think I knew in my gut that these mods would be of limited value in street driving and far too expensive just for the sake of nitro-ing my way up an on-ramp at 120 mph. Mea culpa, but like almost everybody else here, I enjoy making fast things go even faster.

- When I bought my 228i M-Sport, I had no idea that the N20 engine morphs into the more emissions-sensitive version of itself, the N26, in certain circumstances, but what are these circumstances, exactly? Are all 228is in CA equipped with the N26? If I had known there were two (admittedly very similar) versions of the same engine but only one (the N20) would benefit from Dinan's most aggressive setup, could I have demanded an N20 engine in any 228 I order in CA?

- I have already Dinan-ized the car so that it is much faster, more aggressive in its manners and even capable of a little oversteer when pushed hard through a curve. That's all I ask, really. I have gone as far as I probably will in terms of bad-assing my car. I understand that the N26 SULEV is not a worthwhile development platform for aggressive tunes, but does this mean we probably won't get an S2?

Again, thanks, everybody, for the great responses.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

This is such useful information. Cyberdemon, your points are very well taken.

As always, I am impressed by Dinan's vigilance here on the Bimmerpost forums. Your response to my post is really authoritative. I just have a couple of questions/observations in response:

- I think I knew in my gut that these mods would be of limited value in street driving and far too expensive just for the sake of nitro-ing my way up an on-ramp at 120 mph. Mea culpa, but like almost everybody else here, I enjoy making fast things go even faster.

- When I bought my 228i M-Sport, I had no idea that the N20 engine morphs into the more emissions-sensitive version of itself, the N26, in certain circumstances, but what are these circumstances, exactly? Are all 228is in CA equipped with the N26? If I had known there were two (admittedly very similar) versions of the same engine but only one (the N20) would benefit from Dinan's most aggressive setup, could I have demanded an N20 engine in any 228 I order in CA?

- I have already Dinan-ized the car so that it is much faster, more aggressive in its manners and even capable of a little oversteer when pushed hard through a curve. That's all I ask, really. I have gone as far as I probably will in terms of bad-assing my car. I understand that the N26 SULEV is not a worthwhile development platform for aggressive tunes, but does this mean we probably won't get an S2?

Again, thanks, everybody, for the great responses.

No stage 2 is coming as that stage is based off of intake. 4 cylinder goes straight to stage 3 based on intercooler.

Difference between n20 and n26 for all intents and purposes is a more restrictive catalytic converter and tuning. The actual engine is nearly identical. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but my Understanding is that after 2013 any 4 cylinder that went into the "emissions" states such as California to be sold were bound to get an n26 instead of an n20. I believe it's probably to do with a tax credit or an emissions quota or something. Speculation on my part. If the dealers did not have ann26 available to sell an n20 could still be brought in its place though from out of state.

[barfastic]

Hello all,

this is great news for anyone who didnt splurge on the 235 and wants somehting a little more fun.

Coming from Athens, Greece, im not sure if we get two variants of the engine. Im still waiting to receive mine (end of the month.... ) to see what engine version i will get.

Eventually, i would like to upgrade it to something more aggressive, other than easy bolt on products and tunes... What im asking is, if emmissions arent somehting we are affected by, would this kit be able to attach to any version of the engine? or are there actual hardware differentiation? Cause if its only the cat, well then, that can always be removed as most people do here.

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

I would be worried about the longevity of the N20/N26 with those kind of numbers. That would be my first concern.

Agreed

[BarryB]

I have the stage 2 and LOVE it. Got a chance to drive their S3 with the big turbo and now I'm hosed. That's all I'm thinking about. I have a track car but the pull from this mod is unreal and addicting. Can't wait for mine ( and for the street only)

[ibmiked]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

No stage 2 is coming as that stage is based off of intake. 4 cylinder goes straight to stage 3 based on intercooler.

Please clarify something for me. I have the Dinan Stage 1 on my 2015 228i (N20). I don't see a Stage 3 on your website. Is the Stage 3 simply the combination of Stage 1 and your intercooler upgrade or is there more to it than that? I'm very happy with the 311hp I now have but your website advertises an additional 15hp and 13 lb/ft with the intercooler. Is there more horsepower to be found before going Stage 4? Like others here I'm looking for streetable power and Stage 4 is too high up the powerband for me to get a smiles per/mile benefit.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Well it's not going to be street-legal in CA yet and it's kind of bonkers, but here is how it breaks down:

(I am linking to the N20 version, as I have a 228i, albeit with the N26):

Big Turbo: $1299.00

Supplemental Hardware Kit: $109.00

Intercooler: $953.00

Stage 4 Dinantronics tune: $2051.00

The tune is not yet featured on the Dinan web site but the newsletter claims 345 HP, 336 lb-ft torque for the 228i, at the crank, I assume. Also, I do not see the CAI listed yet. Apparently all these components will be on the market April 1st.

Without the CAI I make that $3459 for the parts. My tech's spitball number for labor is $2000, so this would be a $5.5K upgrade, minus CAI.

What do you think? Perhaps we can avoid all the predictable flaming of Dinan for their above-average prices and discuss the benefits and practicality of these upgrades. Is there any earthly use whatsoever of this setup on the street? I do not get much opportunity to spin the N26 up to between its current peak torque (with Dinan S1 tune) of 5500 RPM and redline, which is where most of the enhanced power will kick in. I don't even know if any of it will work for the N26 SULEV engine. Dinan?

Anyway, I think it's probably too rich even for my Dinan diet but what do you all think?

And while I have no mod badges on my car, I think these mods should warrant a "DINAN" badge. But Nooooo.

[raleedy]

According to the way I interpret the US order guides for 2016 (I haven't looked for any differences for California), all AT cars are N26 and all MT cars are N20.

[BarryJI]

And while I have no mod badges on my car, I think these mods should warrant a "DINAN" badge. But Nooooo.

I have a DINAN badge but the car is not wearing it. I am not entirely sure but I don't think it's my style. Spending over $5K on this Big Turbo mod, S4 intercooler et al would surely get you the badge if you wanted it.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by ibmiked

Please clarify something for me. I have the Dinan Stage 1 on my 2015 228i (N20). I don't see a Stage 3 on your website. Is the Stage 3 simply the combination of Stage 1 and your intercooler upgrade or is there more to it than that? I'm very happy with the 311hp I now have but your website advertises an additional 15hp and 13 lb/ft with the intercooler. Is there more horsepower to be found before going Stage 4? Like others here I'm looking for streetable power and Stage 4 is too high up the powerband for me to get a smiles per/mile benefit.

Stage 3 is based off the intercooler which is available but no electronic waste gate tune has been completed as of yet yet for the 4 cylinder (all 2 and 4 series cars utilize an electronic wast gate). So you can get the intercooler now if desired with some benefit and then when it becomes available upgrade to stage 3 to fully capitalize on the inclusion of the intercooler.

I'm currently about to leave on a mini vacation but I will answer any additional questions upon my return on Wednesday or Thursday next week.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

I have a DINAN badge but the car is not wearing it. I am not entirely sure but I don't think it's my style. Spending over $5K on this Big Turbo mod, S4 intercooler et al would surely get you the badge if you wanted it.

I'm usually not a badge guy, but when dropping serious coin at one vendor...a premium one at that...I'm kinda like hmmmm...

Right now debating going with Pure stage 2 or Dinan Big Turbo. Big question is power and whether Dinan would "allow" for me to keep my current bolt-ons. Literally just installed a new Wagner Evo II IC last month.

[BarryJI]

Have a good mini-vacation and thanks for all your expert guidance.

When you get back -- or before you leave, if convenient -- I'd like to know if that intercooler/S3 combo will be applicable to the N26 or if we Californians are out of luck with that, too. I'm not complaining (well, not really...); smog control here has been very effective and my N26 is already putting out significantly more power than stock but it feels odd to know that I've bought a "red-headed stepchild" version of the engine in the 228i.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

I'm usually not a badge guy, but when dropping serious coin at one vendor...a premium one at that...I'm kinda like hmmmm...

Right now debating going with Pure stage 2 or Dinan Big Turbo. Big question is power and whether Dinan would "allow" for me to keep my current bolt-ons. Literally just installed a new Wagner Evo II IC last month.

The two aren't even in the same league, I wouldn't compare them.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by Luminous

The two aren't even in the same league, I wouldn't compare them.

Yeah, I think you're right...the numbers are so disparate.

Although other than that autoweek article and YouTube video, not much "real world" info on the Dinan kit.

I'm surprised it wasn't fullt tested by C&D or someone else.

Maybe that 2er hater Jason Camissa (sp?)

[SteveInfante]

This is good news for me. Finally a way to get the race car status real.

[Seraphblade@sg]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Couple things:

3. The big turbo setup in general though is not really meant for the street as it would be hard to realize the additional gains for any meaningful amount of time. Its really more for the avid track rat, drag racer, and those that just want the most they can get.

4. Reliability wise this setup has been on our first N20 test street car for nearly 10,000 miles without hiccups. The turbo setup is also part of our ST race car engine program (228i) that will be debuting at Laguna Seca this month. All those trials have went beautifully without incident as well and the car is pushed harder there. Not to mention we still have the factory matching warranty in place and that applies to the turbos and incidental damage as well. Must have some confidence. =)

Hi,

was directed over to this board from the 3 series forum with regards to the big turbo upgrade...

IMO, the response to reliability isn't really answered. It is a "Oh, we had a test car that was fine after 10,000 miles"...

For all the other cars that had thrown a piston, cracked their cylinder head, broke the conrods, I am sure they would have a test car that did well for a good distance too...

Does it mean nothing will happen to all cars?

The power levels that stage 4 is pushing now (on paper) is beyond that of the JB4 stage 2 and probably even those ECU tunes [On their website, pushing 268hp and 302ftlb tq]

Your figures are greater than that.

Is there any engineering findings / assumptions / theories to how Stage 4 should not blow any motors? "Blown motors were due to detonation, which mostly occured at lower RPM ranges... Our turbo kicks in at higher RPM ranges and the tune runs a richer AFR , blah blah blah" [my sample statement makes no sense, but yes, something to this extend?]

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg

Does it mean nothing will happen to all cars?

I hate to sound like a cigarette carton warning here, but "MODDING IS DANGEROUS FOR YOUR CAR".

No manufacturer, can or will ever guarantee liability beyond a certain extent. The fact that Dinan warranties this hardware to the same extent as BMW should give you some general level of confidence that they don't expect it to grenade your engine after 30,000 miles.

The AMG CLA makes 375hp stock on a 2.0L engine, these are not earth shattering amounts of power for these engines and testing it at the track would reinforce the fact that you'd likely be fine. When it comes down to it, even stock motors can blow due to something failing, it's the nature of internal combustion.

With that said, if you want a life of certain reliability then don't start modding your $35k+ car.