[G80indy]

I am a bit surprised and bummed that C&D reviewers are still not thrilled with the F30 LCI. In particular the 340iX.

Bimmer seems to be gushing over it (340iX) saying it's a driver's car again.

C&D does not quite agree it's a driver's car.
They both have evaluated the MT which is what I'm particularly interested in.
But C&D will not relent on the isolated steering, or rev matching switch ability , as examples.
Are there late e46 /or e9x former owners that can weigh in here with unfiltered input about the new cars from this perspective?
I'm sure it's relative --- to what else is out there from other brands...
but damn, the 3 series (so-called) loyalists (C&D) are taking the hard line about the current gen cars!

(Thanks for your input)

[tex2670]

Doesn't matter to me--I like my car. I don't need C&D to like it.

[pjkbrit]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I am a bit surprised and bummed that C&D reviewers are still not thrilled with the F30 LCI. In particular the 340iX.

Bimmer seems to be gushing over it (340iX) saying it's a driver's car again.

C&D does not quite agree it's a driver's car.
They both have evaluated the MT which is what I'm particularly interested in.
But C&D will not relent on the isolated steering, or rev matching switch ability , as examples.
Are there late e46 /or e9x former owners that can weigh in here with unfiltered input about the new cars from this perspective?
I'm sure it's relative --- to what else is out there from other brands...
but damn, the 3 series (so-called) loyalists (C&D) are taking the hard line about the current gen cars!

(Thanks for your input)

Well as a new owner of a 2013 328 Xdrive myself I am thinking it's about time the media were more objective about the F30. It's 'ok' for the masses maybe...but as a true "BMW", it falls short in numerous ways....at least MINE does. I AM finding more to like thank god, but the handling is NOT what it should be and so I am finding even THIS BB is full of posts from people modifying their cars with better/lower springs, stiffer springs, better shocks and performance tires. For a car costing this much, they should becoming out of the factory like this....not mushy, soft and roly poly....it's a bloody three series...or had they forgotten?
just my take....

I'll get happy about my car I promise...but it will take some changes....and that's not what I expected...

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I am a bit surprised and bummed that C&D reviewers are still not thrilled with the F30 LCI. In particular the 340iX.

Bimmer seems to be gushing over it (340iX) saying it's a driver's car again.

C&D does not quite agree it's a driver's car.
They both have evaluated the MT which is what I'm particularly interested in.
But C&D will not relent on the isolated steering, or rev matching switch ability , as examples.
Are there late e46 /or e9x former owners that can weigh in here with unfiltered input about the new cars from this perspective?
I'm sure it's relative --- to what else is out there from other brands...
but damn, the 3 series (so-called) loyalists (C&D) are taking the hard line about the current gen cars!

(Thanks for your input)

In BMW's defense it never quit being a drivers car. The F30 once pushed takes a set nicely and handles very well. The on center feel and initial turn in are a bit lacking compared with the E90 but still better than everything else in the class with the exception of the ATS and the IS350F sport.

You're right the magazines seem to think the 340 did nothing to further the cause, one review I read said it was a step backwards compared with the last 335i they reviewed (I thought that was C&D but I guess not, I subscribe to a half dozen mags so hard to keep them straight).

The F30 improvements from 2012 to 2015 are noticeable when driven back to back but they didn't advertise what they changed. I can tell you I have several friends with F30s and E90s and out of the F30s my 2015 drives the best by a wide margin (not all are apples to apples though) but my buddies 2009 M Sport 335 drives the best out of the lot. But his auto trans is terrible in comparison.

[RoundelM3]

Why get upset over magazine reviews? Opinions are like navels...everybody has one, and not all of them are pretty. Personally, I'm delighted with my F30 335i M-Sport, particularly when it's in Sport mode. People tend to modify their cars more for appearance than performance, although others do so for both. The 3 has grown to the size of the E39 5-series, but it suits me perfectly - the E30/E36/E46 chassis were just too small for a guy my size and not practical for carrying more than 1 other adult. My previous E92 Sport had mostly powertrain mods, as I always felt that the Sport suspension was fine for my needs - I'm not a track rat. The F30 with DHP is neither mushy, soft, nor roly-poly, but then it's not an M3, either.

If you order your car and pay attention to the packages, options, and accessories, it's likely a much better car than one bought off the lot - unless it's a loaded one, which I don't care for because I don't want to pay for features I don't need or want, like all that "connectivity" and driver-assist crap. The way I see it, if you need the car to help you drive it, you shouldn't be driving a BMW.

[radm]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I am a bit surprised and bummed that C&D reviewers are still not thrilled with the F30 LCI. In particular the 340iX.

Bimmer seems to be gushing over it (340iX) saying it's a driver's car again.

C&D does not quite agree it's a driver's car.
They both have evaluated the MT which is what I'm particularly interested in.
But C&D will not relent on the isolated steering, or rev matching switch ability , as examples.
Are there late e46 /or e9x former owners that can weigh in here with unfiltered input about the new cars from this perspective?
I'm sure it's relative --- to what else is out there from other brands...
but damn, the 3 series (so-called) loyalists (C&D) are taking the hard line about the current gen cars!

(Thanks for your input)

I am coming from E92 335i 6MT with sport package and I don't mind the rev matching at all. You can't disable it but if you do your own rev matching the computer doesn't interfere so it is the best of both worlds. You can play if you want or you let the computer do it. They are snobs if that doesn't work for them.

As for steering, the steering on my e92 was noticeably better. I wanted the M Brakes and non-runflats so I got the VSS with the track package. It is not bad, but as some others pointed out, it is not as sharp as it was in E92. It is unusable in comfort (for me - I want some resistance when I steer) and in sport it is acceptable.

[auf Deutsch]

C&D, MT, etc. seem to be, to put bluntly, deep throating American car makers recently. Perhaps domestic vehicles are better performers these days. Another view would be that GM (especially GM), Ford, and Chrysler are contributing big advertising money to said magazines whereby influencing subjective outcomes.

I read the rags for comparative objective (0-100, trap speeds, etc.) stats only. I would hope they corrupt these stats based upon bias.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

C&D, MT, etc. seem to be, to put bluntly, deep throating American car makers recently. Perhaps domestic vehicles are better performers these days. Another view would be that GM (especially GM), Ford, and Chrysler are contributing big advertising money to said magazines whereby influencing subjective outcomes.

I read the rags for comparative objective (0-100, trap speeds, etc.) stats only. I would hope they corrupt these stats based upon bias.

People complained for years that BMW was doing this, everyone here and other places said BMW was building better cars. BMW was building better drivers cars.

Now the competition is better and BMW took a step in the softer direction. Drive an E90 M Sport and an F30 M Sport back to back. The difference on initial turn in is significant, difference over bumps is also significant.

[radm]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Does your xDrive F30 have the adaptive suspension? XDrive has always deleted the sport suspension. And, I don't intend to be harsh, but quite honestly true BMW handling enthusiasts don't get xDrive. Choosing xDrive means you are willing to make a handling compromise right from the get go.

I've said many times BMW's thing is rwd, sport suspension cars. Audi's thing is awd, sport suspension cars.

All BMW enthusiast forums are full of owners modifying their suspensions. Check out an E36 or E46 forum. It might blow your mind.




That sounds like something Jonny Lieberman would say.

btw - I love my ZF six speed auto. The ZF 8AT is fantastic, but it can occasionally feel a little busy.




In SF why did you get xDrive? The adaptive suspension certainly helps mitigate the suspension compromise with xDrive, but it doesn't give xDrive the lower, sport suspension, so there's still a compromise.

I have the adaptive suspension. I am going to Tahoe and although I did go with RWD BMW and snows in the past, I don't want to get into trouble if I get pulled over or get to even minor fender bender since they require awd and snows. I went to track only twice in the past and now I don't have time so I am not really a hard core enthusiast. I miss my rwd but not for cornering or ride height - I can go through corners I know maybe even faster than in my e92 with RE11s - but I miss the back going out easily. You have to push quite hard and be in sport plus for the back to go out in xdrive. The nanny in e92 let me slide a bit before kicking in and it was nice controlled fun. On the other hand, I was annoyed at times when the car fishtailed a bit when I accelerated hard (even on dry) and that doesn't happen now.

Everything is a compromise, boxers or caymans drive better than 3 series but we compromise on price and utility. I have enough fun with my new car and added benefit of not having to rent a car when going skiing.

If we didn't have the bloody chain control I would just get LSD. I may get the Dinan springs and shockware if the suspension or ride hight starts bothering me, but so far I don't have any complaints when in sport or sport+.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

People complained for years that BMW was doing this, everyone here and other places said BMW was building better cars. BMW was building better drivers cars.

Now the competition is better and BMW took a step in the softer direction. Drive an E90 M Sport and an F30 M Sport back to back. The difference on initial turn in is significant, difference over bumps is also significant.

How are they different over bumps?

[bovino]

They are notoriously biased about certain things. Go buy another brand new sports coupe and tell me it's not clearly in the top 3. Let's be real.

[radm]

Originally Posted by LMK5

How are they different over bumps?

In my experience, E92 Msport suspension was more jittery. This is probably better on the track but when cornering on uneven surface I find the adaptive suspension on my LCI better (in sport or sport+) - better in a sense that I can go faster through those corners, it doesn't jump around as much. I still can't go as fast as I could in my E46 with sport suspension, so are we regressing? Well, the cars are getting bigger and heavier, so I should probably compare with 5 series from that time.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by LMK5

How are they different over bumps?

My M Sport suspension is not nearly as firm as the M Sport suspension in the E90/E92 cars. My car has a half up/down motion more over significant bumps than the older cars. Yes the F30 rides smoother, by a pretty significant margin, but it also feels under damped as a result. The difference over bumps is pretty significant.

The F30 hangs on well and the chassis responds very well while in a corner, but initial turn in is also not quite as good, especially from a "feel" perspective.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by bovino

They are notoriously biased about certain things. Go buy another brand new sports coupe and tell me it's not clearly in the top 3. Let's be real.

I agree, I drove everything in the class, above and below a class and still settled on a 3 series last summer.

[WHL102]

IMO (and only mine!), the 3 series is now the best all around car rather than the best driver's car in its segment.

As for the car mags, more power to them for not relenting to the masses. I mean, some of what they say must have some weight with the manufacturers?

[Denny Swift]

While I certainly don't take what the mags say as gospel, I'm really glad they are bashing the companies that deserve it. What they say influences sales, and I like the fact that they are fighting for all of us for better cars. Like it or not, the cars available for us to purchase are influenced (usually for the better) by what the magazines have to say even if it pisses us off.

I'm jaded because my Boxster S has ruined me, but I have to say that the steering of my 435 is a step down from the steering in my E92. There is also definitely more noticeable turbo lag with the single twin scroll turbo vs the twin turbo of the E92. Oh, and I still think i-drive is far an away the worst and most annoying thing about BMW. Regardless, I like everything else about the 435 better, and since it's not a sports car and I didn't buy it thinking it would be one, I'm pretty happy with it.

That's really interesting about the rev matching. I purposely bought a 2015 435 to avoid the rev matching and would never want it especially if it's always on. However, I test drove the new Clubman last week (to replace my pig Subaru - told you the Porsche ruined me) which also has the always-on rev match and I really didn't notice it because I instinctively rev match myself. Yes, I'd prefer to not have it, but at least the car is still available with a manual. Everyone has a different pain tolerance and everyone needs to determine what is acceptable and what is "crossing the line." Regardless, I'm thankful that the magazine (while probably going a bit overboard) are beating up all cars that could/should be improved.

The bottom line is that everyone should go for a few long test drives to determine for themselves what is important and what is not. I typically use the car mags as a starting point but always base my decision on what I see and feel during a test drive. No car is perfect (My Boxster S is pretty darn close, but couldn't possibly be my only car.) I still think my 435 is a pretty great car despite the flaws and could not live with an Audi or anything Japanese in its place.

[Denny Swift]

Originally Posted by WHL102

IMO (and only mine!), the 3 series is now the best all around car rather than the best driver's car in its segment.

Really well said! Agree 100% (but would say 3/4 Series)

[goj]

I definitely am happy with my car. That's all you should care about too. Fact remains it is an amazing vehicle and very fun to drive...fast.

[BavarianFanatic]

C&D hasn't been relevant since Csaba Csere left...

[DDD31]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

C&D hasn't been relevant since Csaba Csere left...

+10000!!!

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

I'm jaded because my Boxster S has ruined me, but I have to say that the steering of my 435 is a step down from the steering in my E92.

Good post. These auto journalists get to drive the latest/greatest sports cars on a daily basis (Porsches, Miata, pony cars, exotics, etc), so the sensation of proper driver engagement is never far removed from their memory.

I think a decade ago you could step out of say an E46 330i ZHP 6MT and into a 911 and not feel like you'd taken a huge step back in driver engagement. That is absolutely no longer true with the F3x, and that's why the F3x gets so much crap from enthusiasts and journalists. No one is arguing that the F3x isn't more practical/comfortable/efficient/powerful/etc than any prior 3 series; but the core BMW customers weren't drawn to the brand because of any of those things.

BMW's LCI changes are encouraging; I think they realized they effed up the engagement side of the equation with the F3x. I bet the G2x will improve on driver engagement a good bit, and it'll probably be the last 3-series to get if you want an I6+6MT before they are all EVs or whatever.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

C&D hasn't been relevant since Csaba Csere left...

Wrong. They are still the number one enthusiast mag in the US. And by the way Csere is still there just more behind the scenes as a contributing editor. C and D subscriptions are 20% higher than MT and way higher than R & T who are not even listed in the top 100.