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      12-24-2015, 06:06 PM   #1
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M2 vs. 718 Cayman

Porsche has teased their new version of the Cayman/Boxster, which they are calling the 718. The 718 shares most of the underpinings of the current 981 Cayman/Boxster, but the big change is that the 981's naturally-aspirated flat-6 will be replaced by the 718's turbocharged flat-4.

The new engines will have slightly more power and much more low-end torque than the current engines. However, many Porsche purists are up in arms because they don't like the sound of the new engine, are concerned about turbo lag, and/or think that "4 cylinder engines are for Subarus".

Automobile Magazine has a good preview of the 718, riding along in a pre-production vehicle during winter testing.

The base 718 is faster than the current base 981, though the 718 S is about as quick as the 981 S.

Quote:
Initially, there will be two versions, a 2.0-liter with roughly 300 horsepower and 266 lb-ft of torque for base versions and a 2.5-liter with some 340 horsepower and 295 lb-ft powering the S models. Mid-term, an even brawnier GTS variant good for at least 365 horsepower is due to complete the range. And yes, there is still plenty of room for a higher spec model or even a naturally aspirated six if Porsche wants to go there.

“Downsizing offers various advantages,” says Matthias Hofstetter, who oversees Porsche’s sports car drivetrain development. “For a start, the turbocharged four-cylinder produces up to 100 newton meters [74 lb-ft] more torque than the outgoing six. At the same time, it is instrumental for reducing the average fuel consumption by 15 percent.”

The improved performance numbers offer further proof. While the 2.5-liter-equipped Boxster S will reportedly accelerate from 0-60 mph in roughly 4.7 seconds on to a top speed of 174 mph (on par with the present model), the base model is only half a second slower off the mark and falls a mere 6 mph short in maximum speed. Permanently dark-voiced and with a growling baritone at higher revs, the 2.5-liter engine narrowly loses the street musician duel to the smaller displacement unit, which sounds aggressively high-tech -- especially when combined with the optional sports exhaust.
Pricing has not been announced, but the 718 will debug at NAIAS in a couple weeks (along with the M2), so we should know soon. One bit of information is that the new 718 Cayman will be priced about 1500 euros less than the new 718 Boxster, swapping places in the lineup (to one that makes more sense).

Given that Porsche says they wanted to put "more space" between the Cayman/Boxster and the 911, I'd expect the price of the 718 Cayman to be roughly comparable to the M2 (before adding an unlimited number of arbitrarily expensive options from the Porsche catalog).

Would you consider a 718 Cayman instead of an M2?
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      12-25-2015, 07:39 AM   #2
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I would not to be honest.


As a matter of fact I did trade in my 981 Cayman GTS and bought a M2, ETA end of april 2016.

Althoug a good car which the GTS is, the bimmer is more allround to my liking, also I did not like seating position and the steering charachteristics on the GTS

After owning a E46 M3, E92M3, E82 1M, a quick sidestep to the 981 Cayman GTS I`m going back to BMW.
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      12-25-2015, 11:26 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninX
Porsche has teased their new version of the Cayman/Boxster, which they are calling the 718. The 718 shares most of the underpinings of the current 981 Cayman/Boxster, but the big change is that the 981's naturally-aspirated flat-6 will be replaced by the 718's turbocharged flat-4.

The new engines will have slightly more power and much more low-end torque than the current engines. However, many Porsche purists are up in arms because they don't like the sound of the new engine, are concerned about turbo lag, and/or think that "4 cylinder engines are for Subarus".

Automobile Magazine has a good preview of the 718, riding along in a pre-production vehicle during winter testing.

The base 718 is faster than the current base 981, though the 718 S is about as quick as the 981 S.

Quote:
Initially, there will be two versions, a 2.0-liter with roughly 300 horsepower and 266 lb-ft of torque for base versions and a 2.5-liter with some 340 horsepower and 295 lb-ft powering the S models. Mid-term, an even brawnier GTS variant good for at least 365 horsepower is due to complete the range. And yes, there is still plenty of room for a higher spec model or even a naturally aspirated six if Porsche wants to go there.

“Downsizing offers various advantages,” says Matthias Hofstetter, who oversees Porsche’s sports car drivetrain development. “For a start, the turbocharged four-cylinder produces up to 100 newton meters [74 lb-ft] more torque than the outgoing six. At the same time, it is instrumental for reducing the average fuel consumption by 15 percent.”

The improved performance numbers offer further proof. While the 2.5-liter-equipped Boxster S will reportedly accelerate from 0-60 mph in roughly 4.7 seconds on to a top speed of 174 mph (on par with the present model), the base model is only half a second slower off the mark and falls a mere 6 mph short in maximum speed. Permanently dark-voiced and with a growling baritone at higher revs, the 2.5-liter engine narrowly loses the street musician duel to the smaller displacement unit, which sounds aggressively high-tech -- especially when combined with the optional sports exhaust.
Pricing has not been announced, but the 718 will debug at NAIAS in a couple weeks (along with the M2), so we should know soon. One bit of information is that the new 718 Cayman will be priced about 1500 euros less than the new 718 Boxster, swapping places in the lineup (to one that makes more sense).

Given that Porsche says they wanted to put "more space" between the Cayman/Boxster and the 911, I'd expect the price of the 718 Cayman to be roughly comparable to the M2 (before adding an unlimited number of arbitrarily expensive options from the Porsche catalog).

Would you consider a 718 Cayman instead of an M2?
I didn't honestly consider the Cayman when I purchased my 1M. I like the Cayman a lot but the Cayman R was the model that was most often matched up against the 1M and it was 20K more, so it was a horrible value in comparison.

And of course one rarely even hears about the Cayman R now because there was a Cayman GTS and then a Cayman GT4.


I am sure the M2 will compare quite favorably to the Cayman GTS while being more useful every day and also carrying a much smaller price tag.
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      12-27-2015, 07:44 PM   #4
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There's no way I'll spend $70k+ on a 4 cylinder car so I won't even talk about the 718.

The 981 GTS is a great car period. It looks, sounds, and performs magnificently. I base my purchasing of sports cars on those 3 criteria, plus pricing.

And when you consider pricing, the M2 starts to make its case.
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      12-28-2015, 03:34 AM   #5
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Unless the Porsche execs are smoking crack, they aren't going to price the 718 starting at $70K (of course, with options, the sky is always the limit with Porsche). Suppose the base 718 starts at $50K and the 718 S starts at $60K. Does that change the equation?
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      12-28-2015, 07:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninX View Post
Unless the Porsche execs are smoking crack, they aren't going to price the 718 starting at $70K (of course, with options, the sky is always the limit with Porsche). Suppose the base 718 starts at $50K and the 718 S starts at $60K. Does that change the equation?
Most of the 718 moniker application is marketing fun - they were trying to figure out a way to position the 4 cylinder car, since many will see that as a bit of a step back, so to speak. E92 --> F80 anyone?

The new car, and the conversations about it, will likely go a similar route. Sound and visceral feelings will appeal more to some, and outright speed, tuning ability, and additional torque will appeal to others.

With that being said, I can't imagine that the price will go down - just for the simple fact that instead of using the 718 name exclusively, Porsche decided to call the 981.2 the 718 Boxster and Cayman, respectively. It would be hard to keep those names and simultaneously position the face lifted cars significantly lower than the original 981.

But it is an interesting discussion and we shall see.
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      12-28-2015, 10:32 AM   #7
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i like Caymans....always have. The ONLY car i considered along with the 1M was the Cayman R and honestly the 1M fascinated me more and provided practicality the Cayman R could never provide.

Fast forward we have a 6 month old baby boy who rides comfortably in the 1M and loves it and we take road trips to see the grandparents with a trunk full of baby stuff....try doing that in any Cayman? Impossible.

The M2 will be for people who have families, who carry stuff, who have kids, who have wives (they have so much stuff!! lol)....if you do, there really is no choice here.

Driving wise? The Cayman has always been a great driving car. The last Cayman i drove was a GTS and it was great.....BUT i was happy to get into my 1M afterwards. There is a playfulness the 1M has that no Cayman has...and if the M2 has that playfulness then it will appeal over the Cayman in the same way.

oh and 4-cylinder Porsche???? NO THANK YOU.
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      12-28-2015, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI
i like Caymans....always have. The ONLY car i considered along with the 1M was the Cayman R and honestly the 1M fascinated me more and provided practicality the Cayman R could never provide.

Fast forward we have a 6 month old baby boy who rides comfortably in the 1M and loves it and we take road trips to see the grandparents with a trunk full of baby stuff....try doing that in any Cayman? Impossible.

The M2 will be for people who have families, who carry stuff, who have kids, who have wives (they have so much stuff!! lol)....if you do, there really is no choice here.

Driving wise? The Cayman has always been a great driving car. The last Cayman i drove was a GTS and it was great.....BUT i was happy to get into my 1M afterwards. There is a playfulness the 1M has that no Cayman has...and if the M2 has that playfulness then it will appeal over the Cayman in the same way.

oh and 4-cylinder Porsche???? NO THANK YOU.
What's with the angst over a 4 Cylinder Porsche ?

Like no one has heard of the 914?

Or the Porsche 944 ????
Or the Porsche 944 (wait for it..) TURBO????
and of course the Porsche 968...


What the hell is wrong with today's car enthusiast ?
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      12-28-2015, 12:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
What's with the angst over a 4 Cylinder Porsche ?

Like no one has heard of the 914?

Or the Porsche 944 ????
Or the Porsche 944 (wait for it..) TURBO????
and of course the Porsche 968...


What the hell is wrong with today's car enthusiast ?
quite simply-----i don't want to buy a Porsche to get a 4 banger.

car enthusiasts are morons. i do not consider myself an 'enthusiast'
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      12-28-2015, 03:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI

quite simply-----i don't want to buy a Porsche to get a 4 banger.

And you said you weren't an elitist ... Bah!
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      12-28-2015, 09:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninX View Post
Porsche has teased their new version of the Cayman/Boxster, which they are calling the 718. The 718 shares most of the underpinings of the current 981 Cayman/Boxster, but the big change is that the 981's naturally-aspirated flat-6 will be replaced by the 718's turbocharged flat-4.

The new engines will have slightly more power and much more low-end torque than the current engines. However, many Porsche purists are up in arms because they don't like the sound of the new engine, are concerned about turbo lag, and/or think that "4 cylinder engines are for Subarus".

Automobile Magazine has a good preview of the 718, riding along in a pre-production vehicle during winter testing.

The base 718 is faster than the current base 981, though the 718 S is about as quick as the 981 S.



Pricing has not been announced, but the 718 will debug at NAIAS in a couple weeks (along with the M2), so we should know soon. One bit of information is that the new 718 Cayman will be priced about 1500 euros less than the new 718 Boxster, swapping places in the lineup (to one that makes more sense).

Given that Porsche says they wanted to put "more space" between the Cayman/Boxster and the 911, I'd expect the price of the 718 Cayman to be roughly comparable to the M2 (before adding an unlimited number of arbitrarily expensive options from the Porsche catalog).

Would you consider a 718 Cayman instead of an M2?
Not no, but HELL NO!! I can't imagine having a nice car like a Porsche with a 4 cylinder engine in it no matter how much refinement, turbocharging and whatnot has been done to it.

I remember when the Lotus Esprit Turbo had a 4 cylinder in it and that was the reason many people stayed away from it, I'm not Porsche purist by any means but nothing should replace Porsche's flat six.

Oh well, this only broadens my resolve to target an M2 because outside of it about the only car I would've considered is a Porsche Cayman.
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      12-28-2015, 10:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKBMW335I View Post
Not no, but HELL NO!! I can't imagine having a nice car like a Porsche with a 4 cylinder engine in it no matter how much refinement, turbocharging and whatnot has been done to it.

I remember when the Lotus Esprit Turbo had a 4 cylinder in it and that was the reason many people stayed away from it, I'm not Porsche purist by any means but nothing should replace Porsche's flat six.

Oh well, this only broadens my resolve to target an M2 because outside of it about the only car I would've considered is a Porsche Cayman.
On the other hand, all the versions of the Lotus Elise have come with I4 engines, and a lot of enthusiasts love the Elise. My main concern with the 718 isn't the number of cylinders, or even the sound, but the possibility that turbo lag will make the engine less responsive.
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      12-29-2015, 07:09 PM   #13
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Porsche has little choice. The rules are rapidly changing when it comes to how much we pollute with our cars. And while I'm not a fan of big government, I have to admit that watching Bejing and Milan make me think it's not a bad idea.

I don't adhere to any sort of car dogma. If it's fun, it's fun. If only they would charge the same for a base Cayman while giving it plenty of torque and changing the 6MT ratios to something more engaging.
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      12-29-2015, 08:26 PM   #14
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And you said you weren't an elitist ... Bah!
huh? it's hardly elitist to want a Porsche with a flat 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a BMW with a straight 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want an Audi with quattro.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine..


these are traditions within each marque. there is nothing elitist about it. If you think that fundamentally there is something wrong with wanting a Porsche with a flat 6 then you don't understand Porsche history!
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      12-30-2015, 07:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
And you said you weren't an elitist ... Bah!
huh? it's hardly elitist to want a Porsche with a flat 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a BMW with a straight 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want an Audi with quattro.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine..


these are traditions within each marque. there is nothing elitist about it. If you think that fundamentally there is something wrong with wanting a Porsche with a flat 6 then you don't understand Porsche history!
You are very good at excusing your elitism


It's not elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine , but it IS elitist if you feel that any Mazda without a rotary engine ( say - Miata) is not a Mazda worth owning !!

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with wanting a piece of the history of a marque, *however* when one decides that; TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS in the marque , it clearly becomes elitist.


Next you are gonna say a DCT isn't an automatic..:
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      12-30-2015, 11:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
And you said you weren't an elitist ... Bah!
huh? it's hardly elitist to want a Porsche with a flat 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a BMW with a straight 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want an Audi with quattro.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine..


these are traditions within each marque. there is nothing elitist about it. If you think that fundamentally there is something wrong with wanting a Porsche with a flat 6 then you don't understand Porsche history!
You are very good at excusing your elitism


It's not elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine , but it IS elitist if you feel that any Mazda without a rotary engine ( say - Miata) is not a Mazda worth owning !!

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with wanting a piece of the history of a marque, *however* when one decides that; TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS in the marque , it clearly becomes elitist.


Next you are gonna say a DCT isn't an automatic..:
When I hear Porsche I do not immediately think of my Macan, far from it. But for what it is that was an amazing car. May need to get another one. There's nothing wrong with wanting the quintessential standard issue from any particular marque, but some of the other stuff still has merit.
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      12-31-2015, 10:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
You are very good at excusing your elitism


It's not elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine , but it IS elitist if you feel that any Mazda without a rotary engine ( say - Miata) is not a Mazda worth owning !!

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with wanting a piece of the history of a marque, *however* when one decides that; TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS in the marque , it clearly becomes elitist.


Next you are gonna say a DCT isn't an automatic..:
what's "elitist" is trying to tell someone what opinion they should have. The is the PRIME level of elitism. You should be given a medal!

DCT? i don't care enough about a DCT to even classify it....give me the old stick on a clutch and i'm happy
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      01-01-2016, 03:19 PM   #18
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I have no worries about the new Cayman/Boxster. Porsche will get it right. I was actually quite impressed with what a 4 cylinder can do in our Audi S3. Yes there is some initial lag, but once you are in the power band, it is all good. And I am really very surprised how well Audi made a turbo-4 sound, so I am sure Porsche will be just fine in this area as well.

The M2 looks to be an absolute gem of a car. In fact, If I hadn't just bought a Cayman to replace my e92 M3, I would take an M2 any day over the current M3/4 which have just gotten too big IMO.

It is a tough comparison, however. The M2 will be faster, but the surgical precision with which the Cayman drives, steers and feels can not be matched by but a handful of cars, regardless of price.
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      01-02-2016, 06:56 PM   #19
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Yes, would definitely compare them although they are different types of vehicles.

718: Mid-engine, 3K lbs, 2 seats
M2: 2+2 seats, classic M design but 3400+ lbs

M2 will be more versatile while 718 will be similar to the current Cayman except the difference will be low end tq. 718 might still be able to rule the 50-80K performance segment but at the higher cost most likely. P might have a hard time convincing some 911 customers not to consider 718.
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      01-12-2016, 10:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninX View Post
Automobile Magazine has a good preview of the 718, riding along in a pre-production vehicle during winter testing.

The base 718 is faster than the current base 981, though the 718 S is about as quick as the 981 S.?
That's a really cool article, with great pictures.

Looking around the internets today, it looks like the 718 didn't debut at NAIAS after all, correct?
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      01-12-2016, 11:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
huh? it's hardly elitist to want a Porsche with a flat 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a BMW with a straight 6.

the same way it isn't elitist to want an Audi with quattro.

the same way it isn't elitist to want a Mazda with a rotary engine..


these are traditions within each marque. there is nothing elitist about it. If you think that fundamentally there is something wrong with wanting a Porsche with a flat 6 then you don't understand Porsche history!
It depends why you like Porsches. For some it's a flat 6. For others, it's an air-cooled, rear-mounted NA flat 6. For me, it's a car that has absolute best-in-class handling, even if it's not the best bang-for-the-buck in terms of straight line performance.
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      04-05-2016, 03:23 PM   #22
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Porsche..there is no substitute is a slogan for a reason...its the truth! I would take the new 4 banger Turbo Porsche over any BMW, any day of the week...and I love BMWs! The M cars are faster, but none of them will ever handle the way that mid engine Porsche handles.
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