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      12-01-2015, 02:56 PM   #1
JoePark
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Do Not Buy A Bmw Diesel Automobile Without Understanding This

You can do everything right as an owner and inadvertently catch a bad tank of fuel and incur a $10K engine fix. THIS IS NOT A WARRANTABLE ITEM. And once you go out of pocket $10K to get your car back on the road, the risk remains and will be yours to bear if it happens again. The risk remains as long as you own the car.

I wish I hadn't been so ignorant when I bought mine. Think long and hard about the purchase and understand the risk you take on. BMW NA will never accept responsibility for this. You will not know when you get bad diesel until its too late and, contrary to other opinions and posts, it's NOT limited to off-brand stations. The fuel that allegedly ruined my engine was from Shell.

I hope this factual commentary educates anyone who is on the fence as to whether to buy a BMW diesel car. It's also important to consider resale value as this engine ruination risk is a known flaw in these engines.

If the moderator doesn't remove this post then it can be considered a good public service announcement from a victim of the above mentioned issue.
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      12-01-2015, 07:27 PM   #2
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If the fuel was bad you'll need to file a lawsuit against Shell/the station for their bad gas.
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      12-01-2015, 09:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
If the fuel was bad you'll need to file a lawsuit against Shell/the station for their bad gas.
See my post a few threads down about bad diesel...I had my own expensive diesel episode.

And the problem with suing is you will need to hire an expert witness ($2,500-3,000+ for report only) who can credibly testify which defendant most probably caused your engine failure. You can allege it was a certain station selling either a name brand or brand x fuel... but can you prove it?

The separate lawyers representing the gas station and the fuel distributor will point the finger at each other and unless you can prove who actually caused the damage you can't win.

Your expert has to have access to your bad fuel to run tests (which you've maybe discarded by now), and there has to be other proof as to time/date for supply tank refilled...and on and on.

Bring your expert witness to court...that's another $3,500+ up front.

And don't forget, the insurance companies' lawyers for the gas station and fuel distributor have their own expert witnesses. They'll claim that you made a mistake somewhere that made your car stop running. They can pay for anything they need to beat you in court.

Where's Judge Judy when you need her? She ain't going to help you out here. Your first instinct (mine also) is to sue them...I even drafted the summons and complaint (I'm a lawyer) then I came to my senses and called my insurance company.
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      12-02-2015, 05:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoNJ View Post
See my post a few threads down about bad diesel...I had my own expensive diesel episode.

And the problem with suing is you will need to hire an expert witness ($2,500-3,000+ for report only) who can credibly testify which defendant most probably caused your engine failure. You can allege it was a certain station selling either a name brand or brand x fuel... but can you prove it?

The separate lawyers representing the gas station and the fuel distributor will point the finger at each other and unless you can prove who actually caused the damage you can't win.

Your expert has to have access to your bad fuel to run tests (which you've maybe discarded by now), and there has to be other proof as to time/date for supply tank refilled...and on and on.

Bring your expert witness to court...that's another $3,500+ up front.

And don't forget, the insurance companies' lawyers for the gas station and fuel distributor have their own expert witnesses. They'll claim that you made a mistake somewhere that made your car stop running. They can pay for anything they need to beat you in court.

Where's Judge Judy when you need her? She ain't going to help you out here. Your first instinct (mine also) is to sue them...I even drafted the summons and complaint (I'm a lawyer) then I came to my senses and called my insurance company.
Yes, and this all surprises you I'm guessing ? In order to prove your case in court you need proof. That comes from evidence and usually "experts" who have to testify on your behalf. That takes money and good legal representation. My statement didn't say anything about it being easy or cheap. But then neither is the repair bill for a BMW engine.
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      12-03-2015, 08:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
Yes, and this all surprises you I'm guessing ? In order to prove your case in court you need proof. That comes from evidence and usually "experts" who have to testify on your behalf. That takes money and good legal representation. My statement didn't say anything about it being easy or cheap. But then neither is the repair bill for a BMW engine.
Thanks for the helpful responses. I can't argue with the logic or likely costs detailed. It seems either way that I pay for the fix. I'm not likely to go the legal route. I suspect BMWNA has a deeper legal pocket than I do. Class action may be an option but have not yet explored.

Meanwhile I do intend to name and shame through social media to the extent that I can. Again, I fully acknowledge that I was the ignorant one, but I suspect most new diesel buyers are similarly ignorant to this potentially catastrophic outcome...and that the same situation can theoretically occur again as many times as you fill the car with diesel. If that is not outlined and communicated by the dealer at time of purchase (is not) I do think it's a crafty and deceitful nondisclosure and reflects on the original engineering flaw of the engine. How many BMW diesel buyers know that this represents a real risk? Its also not an isolated case. Our dealer confirms as much as do a number of blog/forum posts.

It may be just a 'feel good' approach but I take to social media outlets to my hearts content to advise and educate an ignorant group of car buyers such as me because BMW is certainly not taking responsibility for doing so.
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      12-03-2015, 10:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePark View Post
Thanks for the helpful responses. I can't argue with the logic or likely costs detailed. It seems either way that I pay for the fix. I'm not likely to go the legal route. I suspect BMWNA has a deeper legal pocket than I do. Class action may be an option but have not yet explored.
It's not BMW that you need to go after; it's the station and supplier that sold you the contaminated fuel.
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      12-03-2015, 07:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePark View Post
You can do everything right as an owner and inadvertently catch a bad tank of fuel and incur a $10K engine fix. THIS IS NOT A WARRANTABLE ITEM. And once you go out of pocket $10K to get your car back on the road, the risk remains and will be yours to bear if it happens again. The risk remains as long as you own the car.

I wish I hadn't been so ignorant when I bought mine. Think long and hard about the purchase and understand the risk you take on. BMW NA will never accept responsibility for this. You will not know when you get bad diesel until its too late and, contrary to other opinions and posts, it's NOT limited to off-brand stations. The fuel that allegedly ruined my engine was from Shell.

I hope this factual commentary educates anyone who is on the fence as to whether to buy a BMW diesel car. It's also important to consider resale value as this engine ruination risk is a known flaw in these engines.

If the moderator doesn't remove this post then it can be considered a good public service announcement from a victim of the above mentioned issue.
Do other makers have mechanisms to protect the engine from bad fuel? If so, what are they? I'd say that would be the first step to your Erin Brockovich moment.
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      12-04-2015, 10:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePark View Post
You can do everything right as an owner and inadvertently catch a bad tank of fuel and incur a $10K engine fix. THIS IS NOT A WARRANTABLE ITEM. And once you go out of pocket $10K to get your car back on the road, the risk remains and will be yours to bear if it happens again. The risk remains as long as you own the car.

I wish I hadn't been so ignorant when I bought mine. Think long and hard about the purchase and understand the risk you take on. BMW NA will never accept responsibility for this. You will not know when you get bad diesel until its too late and, contrary to other opinions and posts, it's NOT limited to off-brand stations. The fuel that allegedly ruined my engine was from Shell.

I hope this factual commentary educates anyone who is on the fence as to whether to buy a BMW diesel car. It's also important to consider resale value as this engine ruination risk is a known flaw in these engines.

If the moderator doesn't remove this post then it can be considered a good public service announcement from a victim of the above mentioned issue.

FYI Update -

I guess I was even more naive than I thought. Just got the BMW dealer estimate for my fuel issue......

$22,450 to bring the car back to life. We can't have the repair done at a non-BMW location or the warranty is voided, even though its not a warrantable issue in the first place. That is super funny....

We have not been provided with any analytics or test results supporting the BMW NA conclusion that this is a non-warrantable issue.

What to do, what to do,.......
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      12-04-2015, 11:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdm0515 View Post
FYI Update -

I guess I was even more naive than I thought. Just got the BMW dealer estimate for my fuel issue......

$22,450 to bring the car back to life. We can't have the repair done at a non-BMW location or the warranty is voided, even though its not a warrantable issue in the first place. That is super funny....

We have not been provided with any analytics or test results supporting the BMW NA conclusion that this is a non-warrantable issue.

What to do, what to do,.......
I don't get it...in the other thread you just stated

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdm0515 View Post
Good luck to all of the diesel owners, of which I will soon be an ex. BMW took care of my issue under warranty with no cost to me. Onwards to my next vehicle.
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Last edited by stormlv; 12-04-2015 at 11:39 AM..
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      12-05-2015, 02:33 AM   #10
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We had an issue in the UK with silicon contaminated fuel.

It wrecked a few different manufacturers cars.

Fuel or non BMW screen wash etc, can never be laid at the manufacturer.

It's always going to be the petrol station.

If a dealership does sort it, then it's a huge chunk of good faith.

Also don't see why someone would pick on a particular manufacturer, it's purely down to bad luck.

Yes BMW may be more sensitive, that's just tough though.
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      12-06-2015, 08:43 AM   #11
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There isn't one manufacture that should warranty bad fuel.
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      12-08-2015, 08:31 AM   #12
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I assume lack of lubricity in the diesel was the problem. This was an issue in the early years of ULSD but I was under the impression it was cleared up with so many common rail diesels running and not many reported failures. I considered a lubricity additive, either a shot of 100% bio diesel each tank or an aftermarket additive. Seems like cheap insurance if refueling at an unfamiliar station.
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      12-08-2015, 05:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormlv View Post
I don't get it...in the other thread you just stated
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1185358

Post #19

Yep, I'm a little confused as well.
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      12-12-2015, 08:43 PM   #14
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Time for an insurance claim my friend.
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      12-13-2015, 08:22 PM   #15
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I do not understand why are you claiming repair cost for the whole incident?

If BMW is so sure on the bad fuel in the car, get a written report from BMW.
Show this report to the fuel company and claim for the damages. Proof to the fuel company which day and time and receipt you pumped the fuel. If the fuel company dispute, ask the fuel company to give a report on their fuel quality in the car.

Let the 2 giants claim their own cases. As consumer, we have the rights of asking for a letter of explanation on the incident.

There is no need to get our own legal on this matters

We are just a consumer.
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      10-16-2016, 06:59 AM   #16
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Do Not Buy A (BMW??) Diesel Automobile Without Understanding This
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      10-16-2016, 08:15 PM   #17
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Contaminated fuel can happen to gas or diesel. Filling up with contaminated fuel can happen to any brand of car. No manufacturer will warranty pay for something they have no control over. You are better off trying to get help with your insurance company and calling up Shell corporate.

Maybe buy a electric car? But make sure you only charge it with a charger that is made by the manufacture of your car.
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      10-19-2016, 02:06 PM   #18
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buddy of mine got bad gasoline at a chevron once. few days later all the pumps were sealed off and he was able to file a claim with gas station insurance company
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      10-19-2016, 05:37 PM   #19
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This is why I never go less than half a tank before filling up. Lessons that chance of damage due to bad diesel. I had an experience at a Chevron where I lifted the pump and just before I put the nozzle in my car, water came pouring out of the spout (wasnt even pressing the handle). The pump was closed for a while.
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      01-14-2017, 07:16 PM   #20
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If one vehicle was affected, there must be 25 more that also consumed the bad fuel. Seems like you need to find the other affected people?
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      01-24-2017, 06:58 PM   #21
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Whats the best diesel fuel to use i have a 330D and filled up the first time today using
BP best graded diesel dearer per litre but i will pay for the better fuel if its kinder for the engine.
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      03-28-2017, 11:18 AM   #22
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Long ago, at the recommendation of a friend, I chose ONE fuel station to use as a fuel source. I log mileage, and transaction/receipt number with each fill. It takes a little extra effort to ensure you are consistent, but it is for this purpose specifically. Granted, long trips are the caveat, as you obviously can't use the same station on the road. But if you are consistently using the same station and can prove it, it's much easier to fight them. If it even goes to court. The theory is, if you can show them a long term log of only using their service, it goes two ways. 1) Shows them you are a loyal customer, and they will hopefully not want to ruin that. 2) Proof it was their fuel, and they will most likely want to avoid extra court costs.
(theory!!)
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