Is a M3 for me?

[Mike_SSV]

Well, firstly I haven't test driven one yet, but here are some concerns pre test drive.

KMs - I'll be doing about 25,000kms per year (mostly freeway - off peak commute).
Is anyone doing relatively high kms on an annual basis? Also concerned about resale impact as I would keep for 5-6 years.

Baby Seats - Currently have a Britax Unity Infant Carrier and will soon have a Britax Platinum Pro.
Anyone else using these? How tight of a fit are they considering they are rear facing?

Boot - Is there much room for luggage after you shove a pram in there?

Everything else looks great, I much prefer the styling to a C63. Still a shame there is no M3 touring.

Thanks - great to have some Aussie context to my questions.

[chromedome]

I had a similar dilemma a few years back. Its worth keeping in mind the following.

- The kids are only in the rear facing seats until up to 6 months, then you shift to a forward facing seat (see here for NSW rules)

- You'll be able to comfortably fit two large child seats in the back of an M3, but you basically lose the middle seat.

- The boot is quite large, you'll get a decent size pram in there. But it's not like a wagon.

- 25K pa is about 35% above average when it comes to average km travelled in Australia. So it's likely your resale will be hit. This is true of all cars.

- If you are keeping it a while - check out if your employer qualifies for the corporate program - you get additional warranty and scheduled servicing included. The duration and service level depends on where the company sits in the BMW Corp. Advantage ladder. You can always buy an extended warranty down the track too.

- The high km's aren't necessarily a good indicator of wear and tear. A vehicle that has done 20K km of short, inner city trips will be worse off than the same age vehicle having done higher km's of highway driving. Regular servicing is probably a better indicator.

The C63 is probably more practical, plus the advantage of a wagon over a sedan is that the sun does not shine on the heads of rear seat passengers - although I think the M3 comes with a rear sunblind.

[elisiX]

Some interesting points. All of which had an impact on my decision to ultimately buy the M50d instead of the M3. You can't argue that the M3 is a fantastic machine though.

Once a pram is in the boot, you won't be fitting in any luggage. A small woolies shop maybe, but even then it'd be packed around the pram.

I imagine with the seat rearward facing, the front passenger will be impacted somewhat. However as mentioned above, it's for a short period of time.

I travel about 20,000 a year and felt like this might be a little too high for an M car, expecting that it would have an impact on resale. 25,000 is really pushing it IMO.

[MrMoo]

1. Your KM's are definitely above average, will this be your only vehicle? You'll take a hit on resale with over 100,000 KM's. You can somewhat offset this by buying a slightly used or Demo M3 so you take a lower hit on depreciation out the door + Good negotiation of purchase price.

2. There shouldn't be any issues with a baby seat rear facing. I also have a baby seat and it fits fine rear facing.

3. After placing a pram in the trunk, there is not too much room for anything else, keep in mind you need a nappy bag, bottles of formula too. However having said that it depends on how big your pram is. 0-6 months requires a pram + bassinet where as 6 + Months requires a pram only.

If you prefer the styling of the C63 I suggest taking a look at the Wagon variant, especially if you plan on having more than 1 child. I am considering a Wagon (RS6 or C63S Wagon) for my next car in 5 years time. Either that or another Sedan + secondary SUV Vehicle.

[Jimjamz]

I've got a F80 and 2 kids, albeit out of prams.

The boot is plenty IMO. As long as your pram is not a 3 wheeler I smthink you'll be fine. Compared to the e90, there is much more usable rear leg room. We do big Woolies shops and throw in sports gear and everything else and the room is generous. We also go the nursery with 4-5 people and come back with lots of stuff (it can get cramped

I'm doing about 18k-20k a year and not worried about distance. If you're going to keep it for that long, then get your money's worth and drive it. Just be prepared to pay for maintenance and ideally preventative work (I do out of schedule oil changes etc).

My thoughts. Best advice was above which is to check it out in person but for me it's the size of a prior gen 5 series which is good for family work. Plus, if you're like me, my son is always asking to be dropped off places as he wants his mates to see the car. I agree with you, the F80 rules the looks.

[Mike_SSV]

Originally Posted by chromedome

- The kids are only in the rear facing seats until up to 6 months, then you shift to a forward facing seat

- If you are keeping it a while - check out if your employer qualifies for the corporate program - you get additional warranty and scheduled servicing included. The duration and service level depends on where the company sits in the BMW Corp. Advantage ladder. You can always buy an extended warranty down the track too.

- The high km's aren't necessarily a good indicator of wear and tear. A vehicle that has done 20K km of short, inner city trips will be worse off than the same age vehicle having done higher km's of highway driving. Regular servicing is probably a better indicator.

The C63 is probably more practical, plus the advantage of a wagon over a sedan is that the sun does not shine on the heads of rear seat passengers -

Thanks chromedome. We want to keep our kids rear facing for as long as possible, so not sure just how much bigger these larger seats are. I'll be buying one soon anyway.

My wife is eligible for BMW Corp program, which is a big plus. I would buy the extended warranty too.

I'm happy with the higher kms (until resale) but your point is noted about regular maintenance and something which would be good to do.

C63s estate is the perfect car on paper for me. In reality, I'm uncomfortable in it, dislike the styling and (in the minority here) hate the sound.

Originally Posted by elisiX

Some interesting points. All of which had an impact on my decision to ultimately buy the M50d instead of the M3.

Thanks elisiX. Yes I must admit to the X5 50i growing on me actually, I think in reality if I was going to go down that path I would just get a 330i Touring instead.

Originally Posted by MrMoo

1. Your KM's are definitely above average, will this be your only vehicle? You'll take a hit on resale with over 100,000 KM's. You can somewhat offset this by buying a slightly used or Demo M3 so you take a lower hit on depreciation out the door + Good negotiation of purchase price.

2. There shouldn't be any issues with a baby seat rear facing. I also have a baby seat and it fits fine rear facing.

3. After placing a pram in the trunk, there is not too much room for anything else, keep in mind you need a nappy bag, bottles of formula too. However having said that it depends on how big your pram is. 0-6 months requires a pram + bassinet where as 6 + Months requires a pram only.

If you prefer the styling of the C63 I suggest taking a look at the Wagon variant, especially if you plan on having more than 1 child. I am considering a Wagon (RS6 or C63S Wagon) for my next car in 5 years time. Either that or another Sedan + secondary SUV Vehicle.

MrMoo thanks.
Yes I have thought about a used M3 to minimise the depreciation hit. A 2 year old one around $100k would be ideal. Obviously the post LCI ones will make shopping easy 2 years from now as all the goodies are standard.

It will be my only vehicle. My wife will need hers every day too. Running an extra car to minimise the M3 depreciation would probably end up costing more than the depreciation in the first place!

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I've got a F80 and 2 kids, albeit out of prams.

The boot is plenty IMO. As long as your pram is not a 3 wheeler I smthink you'll be fine. Compared to the e90, there is much more usable rear leg room. We do big Woolies shops and throw in sports gear and everything else and the room is generous.

Jimjamz good practical feedback. Yes I have been in a few F30s and the legroom is much better. The E90 was ridiculously tiny in comparison!

[Mike_SSV]

So the plan is to have a test drive (with my wife) in early Jan.

The KMs are still a big concern, and I guess it would take an extra $15-20k off the resale of the car 6 years down the track.
This might be where a lightly used variant is better, 2 years old and keeping it for 4 years.

If the car isn't quite right, a lightly used F30 might be an option.
I'm pretty happy with my current car (VF SSV) however, so I really want a substantial improvement before upgrading.

[slowie]

X5M?

[mmmmQuattro]

Have you considered the CLA45 Wagon?

[too hot]

No,because if you have to ask you have concerns/issues. So look elsewhere !

[chromedome]

Mike_SSV - what did you end up doing? Just curious.

I've had the M4 for around a month now and the kids love it. Granted a M3 with two extra doors would be handy-er, but we have a wagon for long haul stuff.

[Mike_SSV]

Hi all,

Well I had my test drive of the M4 today (no M3 demo available), but M3s in the showroom.

Quick summary:

• Exterior - awesome up close under lights. Would like to see Yas Marina in the real. (Also had a Tanzanite Blue 340i in the showroom, that is a lovely colour).

• Interior - very nicely finished, great ergonomics, I can get instantly comfortable (after loosening the bolstering) as I seem to be able to do with all BMWs. From a space perspective, I would say borderline for my rear facing baby seat.

• Start Up - when the dealer started it, I thought geez definitely very loud and obviously a performance car!

• Test drive (normal driving) - When dawdling it was comfortable enough for me when in all the comfort orientated settings.

• Test drive (fast driving) - Breaks traction between 2nd to 3rd. Lots of torque. Severe traction control intervention even on medium throttle off the line (very different to SSV which allows wheel spin in dry and wet). I didn't boot it in 1st.

• Ride - Very good ride in the most comfortable suspension setting. Even in its firmest setting I thought it was acceptable enough.

• Handling - Nice, accurate as expected. Comfort steering preferred. Would need to go to a track to explore more.

• Exhaust / Engine Noise (inside car) - I thought it was ok. I prefer a V8 to be honest, but no deal breaker.

• Dealer comments on my high km usage - Definitely way up there, most people don't go above 15,000km a year.

After the test drive I am feeling a bit conflicted. Of course, the car was nice as expected, but it didn't seem to connect with me on an emotional level. Perhaps I felt it was on too much of a leash?

I compare this to a Jaguar F Type and F Type R I have driven recently courtesy of a friend. Both of those cars I fell for immediately, and just loved being behind the wheel, whilst simultaneously giggling like a school girl from the awesome exhaust!

I'm going to dwell on this for a little bit. I want to love the car but maybe it isn't something which happens straight away?
In the meantime, I intend to book into a BMW driving day to see what this car is capable of on the track.

Other alternative cars I'm open to considering:
SSV Redline S2
Golf R Wagon
X5 50i
Macan GTS or Turbo
Wait for next 5er to come out.

Ruled out:
CLA45 - Too small for someone 185cm and I hate the ergonomics.
C63 - Merc ergonomics again, offset driving position I cannot get comfortable.
X5M - Too expensive to justify
HSV R8 Tourer - Uses too much fuel, my car is bad enough.

[slowie]

X5 M50D?

Plenty of room. Diesel torque and loads of power. M qualities. Great fuel consumption.

[ajs8]

Mike - With all that traction control intervention it looks like you didn't have the mdm activated. One press of the traction/stability control button activates m dynamic. Basically allows you some loss a of traction and or slip angle becore intervening.

[mmmmQuattro]

Originally Posted by Mike_SSV

Hi all,


After the test drive I am feeling a bit conflicted. Of course, the car was nice as expected, but it didn't seem to connect with me on an emotional level. Perhaps I felt it was on too much of a leash?

I compare this to a Jaguar F Type and F Type R I have driven recently courtesy of a friend. Both of those cars I fell for immediately, and just loved being behind the wheel, whilst simultaneously giggling like a school girl from the awesome exhaust!

I'm going to dwell on this for a little bit. I want to love the car but maybe it isn't something which happens straight away?
In the meantime, I intend to book into a BMW driving day to see what this car is capable of on the track.

Other alternative cars I'm open to considering:
SSV Redline S2
Golf R Wagon
X5 50i
Macan GTS or Turbo
Wait for next 5er to come out.

So I picked mine up in Melbourne on Friday and drove it back by the coast to Adelaide on Friday / Saturday, which gave me just over 1,000km on various quality roads.
I think the M4, well for me at least is awesome.
I was really impressed with the suspension, the ride quality and the ability to control the front end.
Never have I had a car which has such good handling and ride at the same time. On really crappy country roads, it rode as good as a VE commodore and not one on FEII suspension. Yet on the great ocean road, it was easily able to handle the corners and with so much power on tap, it was a blast out of the tight hairpins.
Also, it has the most comfortable seats in a car ever (i think better than the Macan or at least equal) - we found on the long drive that we just weren't getting usual my bum is sore after a few hours of driving.
What's great about the M4, is that it can be a quiet easy to live with BMW one minute and then a real sports car the next.
I found it much nicer in traffic than the 911(991 series) I tested recently. And when going fast, I didn't think the Porsche was that much better - a bit better, but not significantly.

Out of the cars which you are considering, I have driven the Macan, a Golf and have an X5 40d (with a chip, so it's got about 600+ NM).
They are 3 completely different cars!
The Macan is great to drive - it's probably our next 'family car' to replace the X5.
Where the M4 beats the Macan is in the technology - the cameras, navigation etc. are all more advanced in the M4.
The other thing about the Macan is the option list is crazy - I priced it up and found I 'needed' $38k worth of options...

If you are going to be doing lots of KM"s a year and mainly on the freeway, then the M3 also going to have great fuel economy - I got 8.5 l/100km on the way back from Melbourne and I wasn't trying to save fuel.

[purecrema]

Current own both the Macan Turbo and M3 F80 LCI.

As a comparison they are worlds apart.

Macan Turbo (lots of options @170K): Feels and drives a lot more sophisticated…that includes the engine/gearbox/chassis. However you can definitely feel the extra weight. Great SUV for longer trips.

M3 F80: Feels very raw compared to the Macan in engine/gearbox/chassis. You can definitely feel the weight benefit as it feels way sharper to drive.
I have a choice of driving either cars most morning……90% of the time I take the M3 for the engagement factor.

[Mike_SSV]

Originally Posted by jp330Cic.au

So I picked mine up in Melbourne on Friday and drove it back by the coast to Adelaide on Friday / Saturday, which gave me just over 1,000km on various quality roads.
I think the M4, well for me at least is awesome.
I was really impressed with the suspension, the ride quality and the ability to control the front end.
Never have I had a car which has such good handling and ride at the same time. On really crappy country roads, it rode as good as a VE commodore and not one on FEII suspension. Yet on the great ocean road, it was easily able to handle the corners and with so much power on tap, it was a blast out of the tight hairpins.
Also, it has the most comfortable seats in a car ever (i think better than the Macan or at least equal) - we found on the long drive that we just weren't getting usual my bum is sore after a few hours of driving.
What's great about the M4, is that it can be a quiet easy to live with BMW one minute and then a real sports car the next.
I found it much nicer in traffic than the 911(991 series) I tested recently. And when going fast, I didn't think the Porsche was that much better - a bit better, but not significantly.

Out of the cars which you are considering, I have driven the Macan, a Golf and have an X5 40d (with a chip, so it's got about 600+ NM).
They are 3 completely different cars!
The Macan is great to drive - it's probably our next 'family car' to replace the X5.
Where the M4 beats the Macan is in the technology - the cameras, navigation etc. are all more advanced in the M4.
The other thing about the Macan is the option list is crazy - I priced it up and found I 'needed' $38k worth of options...

If you are going to be doing lots of KM"s a year and mainly on the freeway, then the M3 also going to have great fuel economy - I got 8.5 l/100km on the way back from Melbourne and I wasn't trying to save fuel.

Thanks for the feedback jp330Cic.au.
Sounds like a great road trip and a great place to get to know your car. Yes agree with the suspension, my SSV is a little firmer than the BMW in comfort mode, but with less body control (well it does weigh 400kgs more). Very impressive.

Good feedback on the other cars. Agree with the Macan, I have just about ruled that out.

I still cant help but compare to the Jaguar F Types I have driven. I was instantly comfortable deploying 400kw even in first gear and it was a lot of fun, especially in the 80-140 zone where it just moves.

Originally Posted by purecrema

Current own both the Macan Turbo and M3 F80 LCI.

As a comparison they are worlds apart.

Macan Turbo (lots of options @170K): Feels and drives a lot more sophisticated…that includes the engine/gearbox/chassis. However you can definitely feel the extra weight. Great SUV for longer trips.

M3 F80: Feels very raw compared to the Macan in engine/gearbox/chassis. You can definitely feel the weight benefit as it feels way sharper to drive.
I have a choice of driving either cars most morning……90% of the time I take the M3 for the engagement factor.

More great feedback, thanks.
Yes feeling the weight in a car is something I don't like, and really the only negative factor with the Commodore. I do want someone lighter!

Overall, after a night of thinking about it, I need to get back behind the wheel for a few hours before I can make any sort of decision.

I might also go have a look at a C63. After seeing one in a certain colour, I actually like the look of the estate. My dislike of the seating position and ergonomics remain, but a drive might change my mind.

[Hazey82]

Originally Posted by ajs8

Mike - With all that traction control intervention it looks like you didn't have the mdm activated. One press of the traction/stability control button activates m dynamic. Basically allows you some loss a of traction and or slip angle becore intervening.

This
If you were heavy on the throttle with dsc on you definitely were not experiencing its potential. I found mdm mode was perfect, was night and day difference.

[Mike_SSV]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

This
If you were heavy on the throttle with dsc on you definitely were not experiencing its potential. I found mdm mode was perfect, was night and day difference.

Yes it only happened in first gear. Full throttle in second and third not a problem.

On reflection, the aggressive nature of the DSC is probably welcome if raining or someone else is driving.

[Mike_SSV]

Just thought I would provide an update after back to back test drives of a C63s and a M3.

Quick summary
•Exterior
C63S - A little too understated. I'd like to see it in the Estate version in my preferred colour, the colours on that do look good.
M3 - Awesome in Yas Marina blue! Love the look of the car, very aggressive.

•Interior
C63S - very beautifully finished. Ergonomics not as good as BMW. Wide transmission tunnel issue went away after I got use to it. Plus points for wagon.
M3 - lacking a little polish vs the Merc but still good. Great ergonomics and comfort. I prefer idrive too.

•Test drive (normal driving) -
C63S - very comfortable and luxurious, a car you can still enjoy driving normally, thanks to the engine.
M3 - not as refined as the C63S and ultimately not as enjoyable.

•Test drive (fast driving) -
C63S - wow, so much shove from the engine. Almost at F Type R pace which is saying something. Friendly upon traction loss. Handling is very nice. Overall very friendly performance car.
M3 - now it starts to come alive. Very involving and a car which is begging to be thrashed. Lacking C63S speed in 2nd gear and above. Great transmission, great handling. Engine very responsive. Lots of traction loss on gear changes, squirming all over the place (on a poor surface).

•Ride
Both are really quite good, no real difference.

•Handling
Both I preferred in comfort mode, although other weights in the AMG didn't feel artificial unlike the BMW. I thought both handled very well, but you can tell the BMW is the more responsive of the two.

•Exhaust / Engine Noise (inside car)
C63S - Sounds a little odd but pleasing enough from the inside. Has the edge over the BMW.
M3 - Still I don't think its the best sounding, but when you are up it I didn't feel it mattered.

•Gearbox
C63S - Smoother of course, but not as responsive as the M. Still very good and has a better automatic mode.
M3 - Great gearbox, a lot of fun to go up and down the ratios when driving fast.

•Engine
C63S - No denying the advantage an extra 1000cc has on performance. This thing is a monster and a lot of fun in 2nd gear with all that torque. A smidge of lag however.
M3 - A great engine and I really like the extra 600rpm to play with. Very responsive, almost feels NA except for the torque!

Overall
After driving the C63S I thought to myself, wow I have to have one of these. Then I drove the M3 and had a much better drive than I did with the M4.
Both these cars are amazing, but they are two very different cars too.

I would say the M3 is the better performance car out of the two.

However, I'm 80% positive I will go with the C63S (as I can't have both).
This might seem like an odd conclusion, but it makes more sense most of the time for the way I use the car.
I feel that I would enjoy each drive of the C63S, but in the M3 I would only enjoy a spirited drive (although I admit a spirited drive would be more fun in the M3). The added practicality of the wagon is another bonus as a family man.

Some interesting comments from the Merc dealer (who was a car nut).
C63s is outselling M3 about 10 to 1.
C63s sedan outsells the wagon about 8 to 1.
Approx. 80% C63s buyers are upgrading from the old C63.
Most C63 buyers aren't enthusiasts, and only buy it as it is the most expensive C Class.

[samboy37]

Originally Posted by Mike_SSV

Just thought I would provide an update after back to back test drives of a C63s and a M3.

Quick summary
•Exterior
C63S - A little too understated. I'd like to see it in the Estate version in my preferred colour, the colours on that do look good.
M3 - Awesome in Yas Marina blue! Love the look of the car, very aggressive.

•Interior
C63S - very beautifully finished. Ergonomics not as good as BMW. Wide transmission tunnel issue went away after I got use to it. Plus points for wagon.
M3 - lacking a little polish vs the Merc but still good. Great ergonomics and comfort. I prefer idrive too.
I'm
•Test drive (normal driving) -
C63S - very comfortable and luxurious, a car you can still enjoy driving normally, thanks to the engine.
M3 - not as refined as the C63S and ultimately not as enjoyable.

•Test drive (fast driving) -
C63S - wow, so much shove from the engine. Almost at F Type R pace which is saying something. Friendly upon traction loss. Handling is very nice. Overall very friendly performance car.
M3 - now it starts to come alive. Very involving and a car which is begging to be thrashed. Lacking C63S speed in 2nd gear and above. Great transmission, great handling. Engine very responsive. Lots of traction loss on gear changes, squirming all over the place (on a poor surface).

•Ride
Both are really quite good, no real difference.

•Handling
Both I preferred in comfort mode, although other weights in the AMG didn't feel artificial unlike the BMW. I thought both handled very well, but you can tell the BMW is the more responsive of the two.

•Exhaust / Engine Noise (inside car)
C63S - Sounds a little odd but pleasing enough from the inside. Has the edge over the BMW.
M3 - Still I don't think its the best sounding, but when you are up it I didn't feel it mattered.

•Gearbox
C63S - Smoother of course, but not as responsive as the M. Still very good and has a better automatic mode.
M3 - Great gearbox, a lot of fun to go up and down the ratios when driving fast.

•Engine
C63S - No denying the advantage an extra 1000cc has on performance. This thing is a monster and a lot of fun in 2nd gear with all that torque. A smidge of lag however.
M3 - A great engine and I really like the extra 600rpm to play with. Very responsive, almost feels NA except for the torque!

Overall
After driving the C63S I thought to myself, wow I have to have one of these. Then I drove the M3 and had a much better drive than I did with the M4.
Both these cars are amazing, but they are two very different cars too.

I would say the M3 is the better performance car out of the two.

However, I'm 80% positive I will go with the C63S (as I can't have both).
This might seem like an odd conclusion, but it makes more sense most of the time for the way I use the car.
I feel that I would enjoy each drive of the C63S, but in the M3 I would only enjoy a spirited drive (although I admit a spirited drive would be more fun in the M3). The added practicality of the wagon is another bonus as a family man.

Some interesting comments from the Merc dealer (who was a car nut).
C63s is outselling M3 about 10 to 1.
C63s sedan outsells the wagon about 8 to 1.
Approx. 80% C63s buyers are upgrading from the old C63.
Most C63 buyers aren't enthusiasts, and only buy it as it is the most expensive C Class.

Really interesting observations
I test drove the c63 as well and liked it but at the time it was at least $22k more expensive than an lci m3. It's pretty subjective as to which one is better, but on price you have to draw the line somewhere and I could certainly not perceive that sort of difference

I found the mercs rear headroom pretty poor (I guess because of the big panoramic sunroof)
Thought the sound system was better in the merc
Was not a fan of the "stuck on iPad"

I added an Mpe to the m3, kept the difference and am really happy
If there was parity on price I probably would have gone with the merc for a bit of a change
At the end of the day both great cars

Interested to hear what you got quoted for drive away price on the merc

[MrMoo]

Thanks for the write up was a good read =)

Don't know if i can quite agree with this point though:
C63s is outselling M3 about 10 to 1.

As a merc dealer he can see the C63 figures but he has no access to BMW Figures. Also a 10:1 ratio is ridiculous i see an F80 or F82 about 3-4 times a week on the road, his suggesting i'll see 30-40 C63s a week.

Eagerly awaiting your new wagon pics!