[gangzoom]

I sold my much loved 335i a few months ago now for an electric Nissan Leaf to enable me to save quicker for a Tesla Model S. At the time the quickest Model S was the P85D, but it appears Tesla has gone mad, less than 10 months ago they added the 691 BHP, 0-60 3.2seconds with 'Insane mode', the P85D to the Model S range....

Now they have announced a P90D with 'Ludicrous' mode....0-60 is now 2.8 seconds with a 1/4 time of 10.9 seconds....That's getting close to Veyron levels of acceleration!!!

The power delivery at full throttle is up to 1500 amps....A diesel electric locomotive ONLY produces about 5000 amps of Peak power.

So in just 3 years of launch the 'P' versions of the Model S dropped its 0-60 time from 4.2 seconds to 2.8 seconds....Yes I know 0-60 times isn't everything, but I for one have never thought I'll be able to experience, let alone buy a family car that can get any where near the accelerative force of a Bugatti Veyron!!

What's more, there's no hint this is it for Tesla, the Model S will be due a 'facelift' in 12-24 months time. A P100D is 100% on the cards, so who knows that kind of power is coming down the line....Oh they have also announced a cheaper £52K 330bhp RWD only 70S.

So the choice is yours, £52K for a basic RWD version or £90K+ for the 'Ludicrous' P90D, all wrapped up in a family friendly shell, with running costs cheaper than a Fiesta (not counting depreciation) ...or wait 12 months for a facelifted P100D with even crazier levels of performance ....Bring on Xmas 2016, because that when I'll be ordering what ever crazy Model S Tesla has onsale at that point!!!

Strange as it may seem, all of a sudden a 0-60 time of more than 3 seconds just seems so slow

[windymissile]

Haha! You sure you don't work for Tesla...?
Saw you on PH earlier.

Looks like an awesome piece of kit. A lot of money for a family saloon though and I'm still not convinced about the whole electric car idea...
Maybe by next Christmas..

WM

[Aragorn30d]

Saw a P85 the other day driving to work. It looked a bit odd, hard to describe but "bland" is the best way i can put it across.

It looked to me like what you'd get if a budget Korean brand (kia or similar) decided to try and build an M5 competitor. It ticks all the boxes, huge wheels, low ride, huge brakes, swoopy bodywork, high performance etc, but just somehow doesnt pull it off and somehow just looked cheap and a bit tacky.

They manage to look good in photos, but in real life i'm not as convinced.

[einbruch10]

A guy that works in the same building as me has one and he doesnt like it. He ended up having to buy a diesel just so he could do longer trips, he also tryed to sell it and no luck.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by windymissile

Haha! You sure you don't work for Tesla...?
Saw you on PH earlier.

Looks like an awesome piece of kit. A lot of money for a family saloon though and I'm still not convinced about the whole electric car idea...
Maybe by next Christmas..

WM

£50k was/is pretty much my budget for the replacement to the 335i - Used F10 M5 or XJ super-sport, but why settle for only 550bhp when you can have so much more. This P90D will cause used P85D/P85+ prices to tumble, and when the P100D comes out - the same again. Depending on family situation/car options come late 2016, I'll decided if it's worth paying another £20K+ onto of £50K for a newest/lastest Model S or 'make do' with a used P85/P85D.

I would love to say I work for Tesla, sadly I'm not clever enough

Originally Posted by Aragorn30d

Saw a P85 the other day driving to work. It looked a bit odd, hard to describe but "bland" is the best way i can put it across.

It looked to me like what you'd get if a budget Korean brand (kia or similar) decided to try and build an M5 competitor. It ticks all the boxes, huge wheels, low ride, huge brakes, swoopy bodywork, high performance etc, but just somehow doesnt pull it off and somehow just looked cheap and a bit tacky.

They manage to look good in photos, but in real life i'm not as convinced.

Funny enough I thought the opposite, haven't seen one for real till a few weekends ago, looks much more imposing in person than in the photos, but looks are always a matter of personal taste.

Originally Posted by einbruch10

A guy that works in the same building as me has one and he doesnt like it. He ended up having to buy a diesel just so he could do longer trips, he also tryed to sell it and no luck.

He must be getting some diesel, or needing to do some serious long road trips. No car is perfect for everyone, but for me, I cannot see my self getting anything else but a Model S once the finance contract on the Leaf expires.

[donR]

We have a dealership near by and I think they look good and really nicely finished. Like a grand tourer and a cross between a Maserati and a Jaguar.

However the base models look more like a Mazda and are slower. The good/top models are so expensive and yes really fast but there are so many other great cars to choose from. Here in Australia we are looking at over $150,000 US for the better models.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by Aragorn30d

Saw a P85 the other day driving to work. It looked a bit odd, hard to describe but "bland" is the best way i can put it across.

It looked to me like what you'd get if a budget Korean brand (kia or similar) decided to try and build an M5 competitor. It ticks all the boxes, huge wheels, low ride, huge brakes, swoopy bodywork, high performance etc, but just somehow doesnt pull it off and somehow just looked cheap and a bit tacky.

They manage to look good in photos, but in real life i'm not as convinced.

+1

Seen two in real life. Followed one for 15 minutes on M25 just to understand

'Why does it look odd?' despite of have big body and big wheels.....I failed to answer my own question!


Being fast is not everything. There are many other american muscle cars which are very fast but handling.... no where near what bmw does to its car.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by makkan00

Being fast is not everything. There are many other american muscle cars which are very fast but handling.... no where near what bmw does to its car.

I don't think its fair to compare Tesla to any other car company, let alone an old fashioned American muscle cars.

I've not test driven the Model S (That's on purpose to stop me from buying one right now), but stock the handling of my old E90 335i left plenty of room for improvement - hence all the mods I added to the car. In-addition the interior finish on our Lexus IS300H is a grade above my old E90.

I have no brand loyalties (with maybe the exception of Nissan), I have suggested to my parent-in laws they should think about replacing their 5 year old Mini with an used i3, something they are seriously thinking about.

If over the next 12 months another company can offer an luxury family car, that can compete with Tesla on price/range/performance in the £50K ball-park I'm all for it....But anything with a normal petrol engine in-it....No Thank You, I rather spend my cash else where these days

[Dannyrado]

I see loads, don't know whether it's all the north west money heading out to North Wales, or whatever but loads non the less.

I agree, they look a little bland in person, but then, I've not yet seen my spec.. Which would be very similar to yours gangzoom.

You can't argue though, they are simply light years ahead of any other manufacturer in this speciality at least..

[E92Dan]

They look like KIAs attempt at a posh car. I couldn't spend that amount of money on something that, to me, looks so bland.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Dannyrado

I agree, they look a little bland in person, but then, I've not yet seen my spec.. Which would be very similar to yours gangzoom.

Have you ordered one? If so very envious

If I was to order a new one, it would be in Blue with cream leather, pretty much same colour combo as my old E90 335i. In 70S trim it comes out at a shade over £56K with current prices, which is ban on budget for me.

The looks things is very individual and every one have their own option. Personally I thought the worst part of the E90 was it's looks - probably the most boring/common looking car I've owned, than that's one of the reasons I loved it so much. For me I'll take substance over style every time .

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Have you ordered one? If so very envious

If I was to order a new one, it would be in Blue with cream leather, pretty much same colour combo as my old E90 335i. In 70S trim it comes out at a shade over £56K with current prices, which is ban on budget for me.

The looks things is very individual and every one have their own option. Personally I thought the worst part of the E90 was it's looks - probably the most boring/common looking car I've owned, than that's one of the reasons I loved it so much. For me I'll take substance over style every time .

They must be good at what they do but shape and design is out of way....

Very much like Kia as other members suggested....

E90 Pre-LCI has ordinary shape however LCI is much better. I like the look but interior is outdated especially if you do not have CIC.

[kiel_dafo_kenyg_as]

Wait two years or three and the LiPo batteries will go weak, the 0-60 will take 2.8 minutes and changing the batteries will cost more than the entire vehicle is worth

[Digitalize]

I cannot wait to be able to afford a Tesla, they just need to release an estate version.

I think they look fantastic on the road, much better than most things.

Electric is the future, there's no denying it.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Digitalize

I cannot wait to be able to afford a Tesla, they just need to release an estate version.

I think they look fantastic on the road, much better than most things.

Electric is the future, there's no denying it.

The Model X is coming. The top spec version is going to have a 0-60 of about 3.3 seconds....So it will be the fastest accelerating SUV on the road.

Holding off buying a Tesla isn't a bad idea at the moment though. 12 months ago £50K bought you a base spec 60kWh battery version with no free supercharging, no live updates etc. Now £50K buys you 70 kWh, 316 BHP, free for life supercharging, and all the gadgets you need.

Musk has hinted that more battery improvements are on the way, and given the car is now nearly 4 years old in the states, I'm sure a facelift is on the way. I cannot wait to see what their product line looks like in another 12 months. Tesla release updates to the Model S quicker than Apple can release iPhones!!

[kiel_dafo_kenyg_as]

Originally Posted by Digitalize

Electric is the future, there's no denying it.

Maybe right but the future does not belong to batteries.
Oxygen-hydrogen fuel cells will be ahead (again)

[Digitalize]

I highly doubt it, everything will become electric, then it's up to energy suppliers to clean up how they produce it.

With all the money and technology being invested in Electric, I really don't think Hydrogen has a future in powering an automobile.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by whiteblue

Maybe right but the future does not belong to batteries.
Oxygen-hydrogen fuel cells will be ahead (again)

The ONLY hydrogen fuel cell car you can buy in the UK is a Hyundai, and there are only 3 public hydrogen fuel stations.

The up and coming Toyota Miria has a range of 316ish miles, but with the 90kWh battery upgrade a Model S 80D has 300 miles.

The Miria is not that much smaller than the Model S, does 0-60 in 9 seconds, and only seats 2 in back versus 3+2 for the Tesla.

The Miria will cost £63K, including a £15k government grant. So hardly any cheaper than a Model S, which has nearly as much range, is quicker, more practical....oh and you can re-charge at anywhere with a 3 pin socket point. Unless you live next to hydrogen fuel station, the Miria is pretty much a Dodo already.

Finally you cannot actually buy a Miria yet, because manufacturing the fuel cell is so difficult, even a company the size of Toyota CANNOT figure out how to mass-produce the thing, so for now its made by hand on the Lexus LFA production line....

BMW are in the ideal position, they haven't committed to any technology (hence battery i3/i8+fuel cell development), instead focusing on weight reduction - which will benefit which ever drivetrain emerges as the winner.

[MrPogle]

Agreed we don't have a hydrogen infrastructure but do we have an electric one? I use about 150KWh a week currently. If I replaced our 2 cars with Teslas, I'd increase my electric consumption by about 80%. It is estimated that the UK will only have 2-5% spare capacity this winter. Sounds like there will need to be be an astronomical increase in new generating capacity before we can all have Teslas.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by MrPogle

Agreed we don't have a hydrogen infrastructure but do we have an electric one? I use about 150KWh a week currently. If I replaced our 2 cars with Teslas, I'd increase my electric consumption by about 80%. It is estimated that the UK will only have 2-5% spare capacity this winter. Sounds like there will need to be be an astronomical increase in new generating capacity before we can all have Teslas.

Gosh you get through some electricity, my usage is half that.

The answer is almost certainly a mixture of solar/wind with battery storage to supply power during evening/night. The technology is actually already here, and its good enough to relive some-> alot of the demands in regards to electric power generation. Indeed if you look economics of it, as battery costs fall (which they are doing), it will simply become a matter of economics - Nothing to do with environmental concerns. After initial infrastructure investment, solar/wind etc power is 'Free' because the Sun/Wind is free to everyone.

http://www.thousandh..._03-05-2015.pdf

http://cleantechnica...r-in-australia/

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-33544831

This article was written in 2003 (Same year as Tesla was founded), where an Saudi oil minster said “The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil age will end long before the world runs out of oil.” The main holdback at the time (2003) to stop the developed world from moving away from oil was the need for oil in transportation.

Unsurprisingly it was Utiltiy companies that have bought up most of Tesla's power packs when it was announced in May of this year. Not sure how quickly things will change, but one thing is for sure, I rather live in a world where global governments aren't held to ransom by a few oil rich countries.

The oil companies aren't sitting back though, AxonMobile is apparently one of the big players behind Lithium-ion battery research.

http://www.exxonmobi...es_battery.aspx

http://oilprice.com/...l-Age-Last.html

[E92Dan]

Battery cars are a very old technology that's steadily being improved. Hydrogen is a new technology and still needs a bit of time.

[nicktyler]

Well this has split the opinion!

I know Gangzoom is firmly converted to electricity but for me it is still too early to tell. I wouldn't want to invest that kind of money in a car that hasn't yet 'won' the power-train of the future race. Also the supercharger network doesn't convince me that it will be just as easy as a fuel car to do long journeys.

My brother has just ordered a P85D and I can't wait to have a go in it. I'm sure it will be amazing. But... I am glad it is he who will have to pay for and live with it and not me. Even if I could afford it.

His argument is that 'you spend 20 mins in a petrol station anyway.' Well not really and I only go every 500-600 miles not 200-250 as my boss gets from his 15 plate P85. My brother is very forceful about justifying it to himself and others, sound like anyone you know Gangzoom?