[The Ghost]

Continuing from my previous thread, I decided to go back to the dyno to do a few tweaks. My setup is as follows:

• N54, FBO, 6MT
• JB4 G5, custom back-end flash (self-tune)
• VTT 2+ turbos (20T, clipped)
• VTT turbo inlets, w/BMS DCI
• BMS Port Injection kit
• Split Second injector controller (AIC1-G4H)
• Fuel-it Stage 3 dual LPFPs
• e85
• Stock exhaust (catted)

The only change since last time is I ditched my customer rear inlet, replacing it with the VTT silicone hose. This fits much better and is actually shorter than the one I build by a good bit.

I didn't have long on the dyno, so I upped the boost slights (holding 27.x) and added some mid range timing (10 degrees max now). I was very pleased with the results.

Here are a few notes:

• I still have a tip-in rich condition, which I will fix in the PI map
• Boost is not hitting target (28psi) - I may change the JB4 rpm-based duty bias to see if it will hold 28psi (there seems to be more pwm headway, albeit small)
• The car kept making power with timing - I think I could run 2 more degrees as VTT did, perhaps cracking 700whp - I decided not to risk popping the motor today Click here to enlarge
• I'm still waiting to remove the

catted exhaust in favor of a 3.5" single


Attached are some dyno comparisons:

• Comparison between my previous personal best and my runs today
• My maxed FBO meth/e85 car vs. my final tune today
• FBO map 0 baseline vs. today's final tune

Here is the datalog of the last run:
http://datazap.me/u/ghost/dyno-log-3...-29&zoom=30-81

Special thanks to Terry@BMS for the extensive support and parts, Fuel-it, and VTT for badass products and killer support.

[bokyo1987]

Great stuff, Ghost. Looking forward to further progress with your build.

It's nice to see folks like you lay down a path for others like me to follow!

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

[*]N54, FBO, 6MT

The only change since last time is I ditched my customer rear inlet, replacing it with the VTT silicone hose. This fits much better and is actually shorter than the one I build by a good bit.

I didn't have long on the dyno, so I upped the boost slights (holding 27.x) and added some mid range timing (10 degrees max now). I was very pleased with the results.

Here are a few notes:

• I still have a tip-in rich condition, which I will fix in the PI map
• Boost is not hitting target (28psi) - I may change the JB4 rpm-based duty bias to see if it will hold 28psi (there seems to be more pwm headway, albeit small)
• The car kept making power with timing - I think I could run 2 more degrees as VTT did, perhaps cracking 700whp - I decided not to risk popping the motor today Click here to enlarge
• I'm still waiting to remove the

catted exhaust in favor of a 3.5" single

Awesome results Ghost!

How does the car feel?
How is the shift bog at that power level?
What could make the difference compared to other 2+ turbo (clipped & 20t) upgrade cars such as VTT? PI with 100% E85? Tuning? Custom front inlet?....

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Awesome results Ghost!

How does the car feel?
How is the shift bog at that power level?
What could make the difference compared to other 2+ turbo (clipped & 20t) upgrade cars such as VTT? PI with 100% E85? Tuning? Custom front inlet?....

Hey, I can't say what the difference is specifically. For one, Tony was running screens. It has been shown that intakes can make more power than screens alone. I haven't really seen other 20T/c sets that were really pushed other than Tony's, so this will likely be more common.

When I got on the dyno last time, I started at 550whp and ended at 639whp. Today, the first run was at 645whp. And I ended at 681whp through tuning (to include boost).

I haven't gone WOT since the dyno as it is raining here. At 640whp levels, I have no shift bog (fixed that in the flash) but I did get timing corrections, which I mostly removed via Vanos.

[MHD Tuning]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

I haven't gone WOT since the dyno as it is raining here. At 640whp levels, I have no shift bog (fixed that in the flash) but I did get timing corrections, which I mostly removed via Vanos.

What was your fix for the shift bog?

[Evil///M]

Looking good!

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Awesome results Ghost!

How does the car feel?
How is the shift bog at that power level?
What could make the difference compared to other 2+ turbo (clipped & 20t) upgrade cars such as VTT? PI with 100% E85? Tuning? Custom front inlet?....

We never ran more than 24 psi to redline on our car, and took it to the dyno once, and did 6 runs. The car had more in it, we just got the numbers we got, and moved on to other projects. I think this is a true representation of what the turbos can do, when pushed to high boost, and tuned well. I also believe if he got rid of the stock exhaust he would pick up at least 15WHP, and he is still running less timing than we were. I attached a couple overlays below to compare these results with our own, and a couple of single turbo kits as well. You will see this option while much cheaper out performs the singles, even at the same boost levels.

First:The Ghost results against our own Stage 2+ results

Second: Stage 2+ Vs VM 6465

Third: Stage 2+ Vs Motiv 750

[RSTECH]

It just keeps getting better and better! Congratulations on the new numbers.

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by MHD Tuning

What was your fix for the shift bog?

My car has never had bad shift bog, likely due to the current state of our flash maps (Cobb, community versions), however once I switched from flash-only to JB, I got bog periodically. One of the good tuners here suggested I change the "Torque Eff Divisor (Fuel)" table to have stock values to cure this. I changed them and haven't had a single bog since. YMMV

On an unrelated note, I switched to MHD for flashing a few days prior to this dyno session.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

We never ran more than 24 psi to redline on our car, and took it to the dyno once, and did 6 runs. The car had more in it, we just got the numbers we got, and moved on to other projects. I think this is a true representation of what the turbos can do, when pushed to high boost, and tuned well. I also believe if he got rid of the stock exhaust he would pick up at least 15WHP, and he is still running less timing than we were. I attached a couple overlays below to compare these results with our own, and a couple of single turbo kits as well. You will see this option while much cheaper out performs the singles, even at the same boost levels.

First:The Ghost results against our own Stage 2+ results

Second: Stage 2+ Vs VM 6465

Third: Stage 2+ Vs Motiv 750

why are we comparing the lowest VM dyno out there? Thus is no where near what this turbo is capable of? You can take this turbo to 38+ lol!

[robc1976]

Here is a good comparison

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by robc1976

why are we comparing the lowest VM dyno out there? Thus is no where near what this turbo is capable of? You can take this turbo to 38+ lol!

Why would I compare one kit at 27 psi to another kit at 27 psi. Hmmmmm geeeeee I wonder..... It shows very clearly at the same boost levels the stock twins clearly out perform the singles, and are much more fun to drive. If you want to run 30 psi+ then a single would be a better choice. Even with another 5psi the single isn't pulling away too much. Terry is already talking about pulling his single and putting a set of these on. Obviously they are working very well. Also I think you must have forgot, but the 6465 graph I posted, that was all Payam could get out of the turbo for whatever reason, which is why he started trying different turbos. Please show me a 6465 graph at 38 psi. Let me know when you find it.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

Why would I compare one kit at 27 psi to another kit at 27 psi. Hmmmmm geeeeee I wonder..... It shows very clearly at the same boost levels the stock twins clearly out perform the singles, and are much more fun to drive. If you want to run 30 psi+ then a single would be a better choice. Even with another 5psi the single isn't pulling away too much. Terry is already talking about pulling his single and putting a set of these on. Obviously they are working very well. Also I think you must have forgot, but the 6465 graph I posted, that was all Payam could get out of the turbo for whatever reason, which is why he started trying different turbos. Please show me a 6465 graph at 38 psi. Let me know when you find it.

sure thing, why you ask? Because most are putting PTE gen 2 turbos on there top mount. Let's also get facts straight, Terry is pulling the Motiv not the VM. Also let's not forget your stage 2 + are close to there limit abd the single is yawning.

I am not saying you didn't get great results Tony, just want a fair comparison, you found the lowest VM dyno you could find and compared it...

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by robc1976

sure thing, why you ask? Because most are putting PTE gen 2 turbos on there top mount. Let's also get facts straight, Terry is pulling the Motiv not the VM. Also let's not forget your stage 2 + are close to there limit abd the single is yawning.

I am not saying you didn't get great results Tony, just want a fair comparison, you found the lowest VM dyno you could find and compared it...

For one, these are my results (I worked hard for this sht)

The fastest cars will no doubt not have stock frames on them. It is good that we have options and stock frame are not limited to 500whp as they were just 12 months ago.

What I can say is I don't believe most ST owners are making 700+whp, just as there are only a handful of stock frame cars who have posted over 600whp.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

For one, these are my results (I worked hard for this sht)

The fastest cars will no doubt not have stock frames on them. It is good that we have options and stock frame are not limited to 500whp as they were just 12 months ago.

What I can say is I don't believe most ST owners are making 700+whp, just as there are only a handful of stock frame cars who have posted over 600whp.

never said they where not great results I am well aware they are not limited to 500whp (I installed the 1st set of evos). I disagree they will be the fastest but to each they're own. I think we both agree the bottle neck to both setups are the transmission.

I was only having a issue with the comparison, I said nothing negative about your results because there is nothing negative to say.


Edit: reread your post, disregard the comment about who's fastest lol!

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by robc1976

never said they where not great results I am well aware they are not limited to 500whp (I installed the 1st set of evos). I disagree they will be the fastest but to each they're own. I think we both agree the bottle neck to both setups are the transmission.

I was only having a issue with the comparison, I said nothing negative about your results because there is nothing negative to say.

I'm 6MT so there is no bottleneck on this side

I think you should re-read my whole last post and just smile. I said it is good that stock frames are no longer limited to 500 (I said nothing about what you know).

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

I'm 6MT so there is no bottleneck on this side

I think you should re-read my whole last post and just smile. I said it is good that stock frames are no longer limited to 500 (I said nothing about what you know).

You have a bigger bottle neck, shift bog.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by robc1976

You have a bigger bottle neck, shift bog.

Man for a guy who was super friendly about a month ago, you sure are sounding a lot like a hater these days Rob. Looks like you are sipping the RB Kool-Aid again which is fine. My comparison was the motiv turbo kit at 23, and 27 psi, so yes the SAME boost level making less power everywhere. The other was a 6465 at 27 psi, making about the same power up top, but less down low. That you have a problem with comparing two different systems at the same boost makes little to no sense. Great, so the singles can turn up the boost, I had no problem holding 30 psi to redline on these turbos during street testing, so we there is more room in these as well. I know these results do not sit well with a lot of single owners that shelled out 6-8K for a kit, and are making less power, and have a car that is not as fun to drive, but that is just the way the stock frames are going these days. Cheers

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

Man for a guy who was super friendly about a month ago, you sure are sounding a lot like a hater these days Rob. Looks like you are sipping the RB Kool-Aid again which is fine. My comparison was the motiv turbo kit at 23, and 27 psi, so yes the SAME boost level making less power everywhere. The other was a 6465 at 27 psi, making about the same power up top, but less down low. That you have a problem with comparing two different systems at the same boost makes little to no sense. Great, so the singles can turn up the boost, I had no problem holding 30 psi to redline on these turbos during street testing, so we there is more room in these as well. I know these results do not sit well with a lot of single owners that shelled out 6-8K for a kit, and are making less power, and have a car that is not as fun to drive, but that is just the way the stock frames are going these days. Cheers

I am not hating Tony lol! Just listing facts, that is all.

Shift bog = known issue
The results don't bother me, I think its great but your comparing your setup to the weakest dyno, thats what I had issue with, why can't you compare it to the PTE that most are running with the VM KIT? Also, what are you talking about not fun to drive? My Motiv has no lag, have many that can vogue. Well actually not my Motiv anymore. Less power? Can you read the dyno graph I posted?

VM = 757WHP VTT = 681whp
VM = 676 torque VTT = 620

Where is there less power? The 6466 can make well over 800whp, my buddy "josh Putoff" Mr-MR2guy made 861whp @ 36 psi and is turning it up to 40psi for over 900whp.....please show me some VTT products with these numbers please.

Algo let's not also forget the single guys post a bit more money but they last because they're not maxed out all the time.

I am not hating, just dont like the fact your trying to make it look line something its not man, you knew full well there was a higher dyno but decided to post the weakest one to make your product look better. You don't have to do that, stock frame with 681whp is impressive.

[matthewo]

Wow got to love it, bought a 8 year old Beamer and people are still raising the bar and developing new products. Got to love the n54 and it's capabilies and options what a great platform and look forward to moding to futher modding it over the years. I am so glad this car is living on and people are still passionate about it.

[whosdady]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

Man for a guy who was super friendly about a month ago, you sure are sounding a lot like a hater these days Rob. Looks like you are sipping the RB Kool-Aid again which is fine. My comparison was the motiv turbo kit at 23, and 27 psi, so yes the SAME boost level making less power everywhere. The other was a 6465 at 27 psi, making about the same power up top, but less down low. That you have a problem with comparing two different systems at the same boost makes little to no sense. Great, so the singles can turn up the boost, I had no problem holding 30 psi to redline on these turbos during street testing, so we there is more room in these as well. I know these results do not sit well with a lot of single owners that shelled out 6-8K for a kit, and are making less power, and have a car that is not as fun to drive, but that is just the way the stock frames are going these days. Cheers

Is there something wrong with liking (or being impressed with) other brands besides VTT?

Congrats on the numbers Ghost. Once I get my car back together and tuned, I will be headed to the dyno with my RB EVO powered automatic. Based on what we've seen on low boost, I'll be shocked if I'm not over 700rwhp/tq....

[Dave W.]

If you want to be fair we should look at one of the best performing single turbo kits at 26psi. I had to dig back two years ago to find it. 26 psi with a PTE6466, it made 738RWHP. Keep in mind this was two years ago when stacked flashes were just getting started and torque was intentionally kept low to keep the engine safe. I think you know what a 6466 is capable of with modern tuning and modern fueling.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...o#post14422354

It's hard to find dyno charts at 25-28psi from single turbo owners simply because they don't stop there. Why buy a big single and only run 25psi?

This-

Originally Posted by robc196

I am not hating, just dont like the fact your trying to make it look line something its not man, you knew full well there was a higher dyno but decided to post the weakest one to make your product look better. You don't have to do that, stock frame with 681whp is impressive.