1st Track Weekend Notes

[FTS]

Oh boy, where to start? First day, dark and cloudy sky, mostly rainy, unpleasant conditions, 2nd day sunny, dry and windy.

Let me get the excuses out of the way: 1st anniversary to the day of my crash totaling the GT3, one year off the track, rusty, not to mention new car, new platform; saying I was skittish is an understatement.

A lot of positives, few negatives about the car, but I really had fun and getting back up to some speed was exhilarating. I only had few runs, my lap times were in the 1:32-1:34 range, which is sloooow and I was 10-11 secs of my GT3 pace (Summit Point Main), it is to be expected I guess.

Anyway let's get to the car:

First time out on semi-damp track, I left MDM on, but within 2-3 laps I had first-hand experience of others mentioning their frustrations with the electronics. As skittish as I was, I just had to turn it off completely. MDM not only does not help, but kills the driver confidence too I think, it intervenes so early that you think you will loose control even with slight aggressiveness of throttle or steering or combination, it is just silly. Once it was off, the car felt soooo much better, I had more confidence and we ran significantly better.

I was slightly concerned about my front/rear tire stagger that I might get too much understeer, but thus far I think I really like the setup a lot. No understeer at all (although I wasn't going fast enough probably), easy to control the car and steer through the rear. Also, there was no rubbing. The tires also did not roll much at all, camber for the speeds I was at seemed fine, I am sure it will get worse as I increase my pace.

Another concern was the seats; comfy leather. but I wasn't sliding much in corners and did not have an issue staying in them. The side bolster tightening does help, no complaints at all.

I originally also started with Throttle in Sport, Shocks in Sport, Steering in Normal, DCT in S3. It wasn't bad and this track has some bumpy sections. However, one issue I had was once I'd reach 135 mph the car would start to float a little on all four directions. I really did not like the feeling and I eased off the throttle quite early. Otherwise, I think the car can reach 145-150 on the front straight (145 mph was most I had with the GT3). Up to 110 mph or so, I could keep on the tails of 991 GT3s, so straight line speed is really good, but I think aero lacks significantly. Later sessions, I switch everything to Sport+, the steering stability got significantly better, I liked the throttle much better too, and shocks can use another Sport++ IMO.

During my first session I average 9.3 mpg, then my last session was 6.1 mpg. Given that I was significantly slower than my GT3 times in which I would avg 7 to 8 mpg, this engine is quite inefficient? I am not sure how to interpret, but I don't think I care much. The thrust that hits you with increasing throttle is not something I am used to, so initially I was barely ever on WOT, until last session, which is when the mpg went down significantly.

DCT was flawless, I loved it. I tried all the gears, up/down, up/down, cannot ask for better. And the HUD was so useful, I don't think I ever looked down, excellent shift lights. And the kick in the boot shifting near or at the red line, LOLOL, just loved it. It is not unsettling at all, the car was stable even mid-corner shifts, no-lift booms ; just excellent.

I have long ways to go before fully trusting the car and myself behind wheel, no doubt. But overall I did like the cornering feel, very stable, easy to throttle steer and moderate lean. 1.02-1.03 g cornering did not feel quite near the limit, there is more in there, I just need to learn to extract it. I was generally 10-15 mph slower in corners than in the GT3, particularly in high-speed corners, but during the last session that gap narrowed to about 7-12 mph. The car absorbs bumps very well, stays composed, but I now understand better why so many Bimmer trackers go with coilovers. I particularly felt the rebound on the shocks is lacking and compression can be improved at least slightly.

The brakes did not disappoint. Pedal feel, although just a touch soft, remained constant through all sessions. They felt on par with the GT3, but I had PFC08s on that car, so for stock pads, I think it is excellent. After each session, the pads would fume for about 3-4 mins and they turned silver/white color on the front. Discs look as original still, I still need to check the temp paints when switching wheels to see if they are still there or washed out in the rain.

The 400-500 lbs weight difference vs. the GT3 is felt everywhere, but particularly under braking. It takes a long while to get the weight onto the front axle after the first application of brakes; initially it caught me by surprise, but I got used to it quickly I think.

Overall I really liked running with the M4, I have a lot to learn, but I can see it will be a fun car. The discovery phase is truly exciting, and every corner and straight is a joy, except for the weight and high-speed wobbling around, I absolutely love the car.

[biggripper]

Sorry if I missed this but are you on the CCB's or the steel brakes?

[gthal]

Loved your write-up!

What tires were you running?

[MaynardZed]

Thanks for the review. I had a few pucker moments during high speed braking too, felt like the car was "skating" which is very unnerving at 100+mph. Springs are too soft, coilovers should resolve this I'm thinking.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by biggripper

Sorry if I missed this but are you on the CCB's or the steel brakes?

I'm on CCBs, there is a thread about these brakes in this section somewhere in which we will try to collect feedback over time I will update that thread too with couple of pics of the pads.

Edit: Found the thread: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1107406

Originally Posted by gthal

Loved your write-up!

What tires were you running?

Thank you! R888s, 265/35 and 325/30s.

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Thanks for the review. I had a few pucker moments during high speed braking too, felt like the car was "skating" which is very unnerving at 100+mph. Springs are too soft, coilovers should resolve this I'm thinking.

Most of the wobbling I had was while on throttle above 130+ mph, under braking was manageable, but yes, it is there.

[FTS]

Here is the track report, some interesting numbers; of course they will make sense probably to people that know the track, but nevertheless...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Thanks for the review. I had a few pucker moments during high speed braking too, felt like the car was "skating" which is very unnerving at 100+mph. Springs are too soft, coilovers should resolve this I'm thinking.

Do you have the adaptive suspension? I think OP does given he mentioned the suspension setting.

I wonder if there is a difference between the passive and adaptive suspension in this regard? (I didn't feel this during 100+mph braking or while WOT at 130mph)

Thanks for sharing your 1st track day experience OP. For me on my first time out last week (also in the wet and 38F ambient temps.. it was my first time at Spa and I was running in the 3:40 range) the thing I was trying to get used to the most was how patient I needed to be with the throttle on corner exit to avoid getting power oversteer. My previous cars have been much less powerful

[JNoSol]

Great write up. Can you please share a photo of your wheel setup on the car? Didn't realize we could fit 325 in the rear.

[heckyeahbro69]

stainless braided brake lines did wonders for my pedal feel, and they are pretty cheap.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Thanks for sharing your 1st track day experience OP. For me on my first time out last week (also in the wet and 38F ambient temps.. it was my first time at Spa and I was running in the 3:40 range) the thing I was trying to get used to the most was how patient I needed to be with the throttle on corner exit to avoid getting power oversteer. My previous cars have been much less powerful

It is entirely possible I was overly sensitive to the chassis movement. Couple of more track days and I'll have a better idea about the car at higher speeds.

Even though I was not WOT, the track report shows that on 2nd gear corner exits I could reach 0.40-0.45 Accel-g, which is pretty good I think, of course keep in mind that the tires I was carying

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Great write up. Can you please share a photo of your wheel setup on the car? Didn't realize we could fit 325 in the rear.

Thank you! It is a very close fit and I had worries of rubbing with my wheel offsets, but CCW's wheel setup is perfect I think. You can find my wheel/tire thread here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1096732

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FTS

Even though I was not WOT, the track report shows that on 2nd gear corner exits I could reach 0.40-0.45 Accel-g, which is pretty good I think, of course keep in mind that the tires I was carying

I didn't have any logging gear with me but I found I had more luck using 3rd at lower rpm rather than 2nd at high rpm (as well as "sport" throttle setting and "s1" gearbox setting) so I could get into the throttle a bit earlier and not flash the electronic assist light on shifts

Do you by chance have some data in corners where you tried 3rd instead of 2nd on exit?

[FTS]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I didn't have any logging gear with me but I found I had more luck using 3rd at lower rpm rather than 2nd at high rpm (as well as "sport" throttle setting and "s1" gearbox setting) so I could get into the throttle a bit earlier and not flash the electronic assist light on shifts.

I can understand your choice assuming you were on stock rims and tires. I found the Sport+ throttle to be smoother on track unexpectedly, I think tires have a lot to do with this though.

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Do you by chance have some data in corners where you tried 3rd instead of 2nd on exit?

Yes I used as many gears as I could through each of the corners, just playing around and collecting data. In corners where I could get to 0.45 accel G in second gear, 3rd gear resulted in 0.42, and in another 2nd gear corner where I reached 0.39 accel G, 3rd gear run was at 0.36. Still good, but there is a lot more there of course.

It is good not to place too much value in this data though, my driving was so inconsistent that it is not possible to draw conclusions. To give you an idea how inconsistent I was: my best lap time and TBL delta is 4.2 secs

[SakhirM4]

Great thread

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FTS

I can understand your choice assuming you were on stock rims and tires. I found the Sport+ throttle to be smoother on track unexpectedly, I think tires have a lot to do with this though.

Thanks for sharing the data. Yes my car is still stock. Can't wait to get the car back to SoCal to take it out of play in the dry.

How do you like your data logging setup by the way? Would you buy it again or is there another one you'd recommend?

[FTS]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

How do you like your data logging setup by the way? Would you buy it again or is there another one you'd recommend?

I used several different systems over the years, the best I liked was RacePak although its software was not intuitive at all. Then I moved to AIM Solo DL, and OMG! It is superb. The setup and use of Solo DL is very easy, and SmartyCam integration is flawless, and RaceStudio is exactly what I wanted. Thus far I cannot find fault in it, although I am going through the learning curve on this as well. Here is an example of what I was not getting before, the power and torque curves based on actual runs And yes, not only I would recommend this setup, but I'd buy it all over again. The guys at M-World were most helpful before and after purchase and continue to be so.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FTS

I used several different systems over the years, the best I liked was RacePak although its software was not intuitive at all. Then I moved to AIM Solo DL, and OMG! It is superb. The setup and use of Solo DL is very easy, and SmartyCam integration is flawless, and RaceStudio is exactly what I wanted. Thus far I cannot find fault in it, although I am going through the learning curve on this as well. Here is an example of what I was not getting before, the power and torque curves based on actual runs And yes, not only I would recommend this setup, but I'd buy it all over again. The guys at M-World were most helpful before and after purchase and continue to be so.

Do you need to wire into ECU or is it OBDII ?

[FTS]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Do you need to wire into ECU or is it OBDII ?

Don't need ECU wiring, you can tap the CAN bus like the Awron gauge, or like me you can use the ODBII port, easiest. You get more channels through CAN bus though, the M-World guys are building a proper CAN Bus harness to do it cleanly, which I will get when ready.

[///Mobbin]

Great write-up FTS, much appreciated! I especially liked the notes of comparison to your GT3. I used to have a 997.2 C2S which I loved at the track but couldn't handle as a DD. Good to hear your perspective coming from the GT3, and sorry to hear it is no longer around.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Great write-up FTS, much appreciated! I especially liked the notes of comparison to your GT3. I used to have a 997.2 C2S which I loved at the track but couldn't handle as a DD. Good to hear your perspective coming from the GT3, and sorry to hear it is no longer around.

Thank you very much, I am glad my notes are of some use. The GT3 was a special car, particularly the 997.2 I had, but I'd be lying if I say I miss it, at least not so far

[evanescent03]

good stuff - thanks for posting!! sensitive topic about the GT3 perhaps, first of all I'm glad you're okay, but sorry about the car. if you had track insurance, who was it and how was the claims process? any lessons learned there?

at any rate, I'm glad you're back in the car and on the track! you're making me have tire size envy with those rears!!

[FTS]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

good stuff - thanks for posting!! sensitive topic about the GT3 perhaps, first of all I'm glad you're okay, but sorry about the car. if you had track insurance, who was it and how was the claims process? any lessons learned there?

Not sensitive at all, no worries, it was not a driver's fault issue, the rear brake pistons seized and locked up the rears sending us to the tire wall on a straight.

I did not have track insurance, my regular insurance covered at agreed value, so all was good; great company, ACE Private Risk Services

They renewed my policy, minimal rate increase, but suggested to also get track insurance, which now I did for the M4.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by FTS

Not sensitive at all, no worries, it was not a driver's fault issue, the rear brake pistons seized and locked up the rears sending us to the tire wall on a straight.

I did not have track insurance, my regular insurance covered at agreed value, so all was good; great company, ACE Private Risk Services

They renewed my policy, minimal rate increase, but suggested to also get track insurance, which now I did for the M4.

glad that worked out well!! thanks for the response!