[AWSAWS]

Would anyone have any idea how hard a job it is to add a Walbro pump so the car can handle ethanol? Rough cost?

[Lawton438]

+1 on this,
Could also anyone shed any light on the difference between a lpfp and hpfp, as I've seen a fuel it stage 2 upgrade on lpfp but wondering if that is all that's required to run ethanol?

[windymissile]

What concentration of Ethanol..?
No matter what you do, the hpfp runs out of steam at about the 550 point on Ethanol. It just can't pump the volume.
The American side of the site has pages of good info on fuel set-ups.

WM

[jamesmurray]

Unless you plan to run over 30% concentration of bio ethanol then I wouldn't bother too be honest. I ran up to that concentration and my logs checked out fine (especially the lpfp pressure), but anymore than that and the pressure starts to dip. Plus you should then be running a back end flash to make the most of the increased knock resistance.

James

[russjonesr]

$210 for the walbro starter in-line kit, install looks straight forward....

[AWSAWS]

Found info here:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17458

I was recently having issues with trims maxing out on logged WOT runs with just 99ron fuel. The AFR settings (set all to 0) on JB4 seem to have sorted it now. Still need to do some tests. I just wondered how much an upgrade like this cost based on man hours to fit. I can find the pumps for sale.

True 30% bioethanol is probably more than enough but the way the JB4 logs were looking I didn't want to chance any ethanol yet. Now they look ok I may give it a go.

[russjonesr]

Hey Jack,

Probably my next mod...

http://www.fuel-it.biz/e-series-stag...grade-options/

Did the jb4 log any errors?

Cheers Russ

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by russjonesr

Hey Jack,

Probably my next mod...

http://www.fuel-it.biz/e-series-stag...grade-options/

Did the jb4 log any errors?

Cheers Russ

I have been on N54 a few times trying to get answers to my issue. What they thought was that the O2 sensors had got all screwed up thanks to temp drops. The HPFP and LPFP looked ok but trims was always hitting 50 trying to get the target AFR I believe.

A menu 1, option 7 set clears 02 sensors etc back down.

I still seemed to get high trims so they suggested clearing down the target AFRs.

I wonder if maybe Tesco momentum is more ethanol than expected?

Basically the tune would keep upping FOL until it hit the error FOL to high and went into limp mode. Not good on a WOT run. Feels like hitting a wall. I could set FOL back to 80 but it would just learn up again. I could stop it learning up but I don't want to run lean and scorch the engine by running too hot.

So meth kit looks like the next option.

I wonder do you guys know about flashing the DME? If I run a flash for ethanol, can I get back to a factory stock flash for whatever reason?

[russjonesr]

I got a bt cable last week and plan to flash my dme with the bms race flash. The e85 flash presumes you will be running at least 50% e85 every tank so not really feasible for us. With the bt cable the first thing you do is make a copy of your stock bin file, just in case things go pear shaped, or want to go back to stock.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by russjonesr

I got a bt cable last week and plan to flash my dme with the bms race flash. The e85 flash presumes you will be running at least 50% e85 every tank so not really feasible for us. With the bt cable the first thing you do is make a copy of your stock bin file, just in case things go pear shaped, or want to go back to stock.

Would that be the same as the ODBII cable used for coding? All these different flashes are interesting. I have been looking at flashes for the DCT transmission as well. Increasing the the speed the clutches engage to reduce slippage reducing wear at higher torque loads. Also having less dead time before the car moves off from being stationary. Can be tricky on the round about and junctions. Some times, nothing, nothing, nothing, whoaaaaaaaaah!!!

[russjonesr]

Hey Jack, From what I understand you need a different cable to flash your gearbox...its uses WINKFP software. I think I'm going to get MAKKAN00 to flash it...bit of a drive but probably in the long run worth it.
I here ya on the traction...sent over a couple of logs to Russell at BMS, but like he said I'm having "terrible issues" with traction...so meth going crazy as throttle opening and closing!! Did a half light DCS in a vein attempt to get a good run...but I'm losing traction at 60-70 mph!
See log attached...increased the additive as I had room on the Avg Ign...and although brief due to the conditions seem to be making just under the 20 psi! looking forward to the better weather and better traction!

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by russjonesr

Hey Jack, From what I understand you need a different cable to flash your gearbox...its uses WINKFP software. I think I'm going to get MAKKAN00 to flash it...bit of a drive but probably in the long run worth it.
I here ya on the traction...sent over a couple of logs to Russell at BMS, but like he said I'm having "terrible issues" with traction...so meth going crazy as throttle opening and closing!! Did a half light DCS in a vein attempt to get a good run...but I'm losing traction at 60-70 mph!
See log attached...increased the additive as I had room on the Avg Ign...and although brief due to the conditions seem to be making just under the 20 psi! looking forward to the better weather and better traction!

20psi! Holly cow.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by russjonesr

Hey Jack, From what I understand you need a different cable to flash your gearbox...its uses WINKFP software. I think I'm going to get MAKKAN00 to flash it...bit of a drive but probably in the long run worth it.
I here ya on the traction...sent over a couple of logs to Russell at BMS, but like he said I'm having "terrible issues" with traction...so meth going crazy as throttle opening and closing!! Did a half light DCS in a vein attempt to get a good run...but I'm losing traction at 60-70 mph!
See log attached...increased the additive as I had room on the Avg Ign...and although brief due to the conditions seem to be making just under the 20 psi! looking forward to the better weather and better traction!

How come your FOL is so low at only 41?

Your boost hit 20.2 psi on the upshift to 4th! I wonder if you need to increase the gear change boost drop. 'Auto shift boost reduction'.

LPFP and HPFP look ok to me. Trims hit 50 but it's probably a case of tweaking various map settings or it being fine when ethanol isn't present. Possibly a flash as you've said.

[russjonesr]

Hey Jack,

I'm still trying to get to grips with the interpretation of the logs myself I keep referring back to this thread http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21269 ...from what I understand FOL is autotuning
FOL: FOL is a bias applied to the HPFP pressure signal that the DME reads to affect the actual HPFP pressure. Higher values of this variable makes the DME see a lower HPFP reading and thus the DME actually raises the true HPFP pressure. If the HPFP or LPFP is weak or the E85 mixture is too high and the FOL value is also high….. typically above 85……. the DME could see a low HPFP pressure and generate a code.

FOL is an autotuning variable based on the TRIMS signal. The FOL value will trend up if during pulls the TRIMS signal is at maximum. Conversely, if the TRIMS signal is staying at zero, the FOL value will trend down.
The autotuning range of the FOL signal is 40 to 100. The maximum range is 0 to 100.

So as you said both pumps look fine...and I think the back end flash will assist on the trims...and yes the Auto shift boost reduction s something I have not yet addressed but will be looking at it.

Cheers Russ

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by russjonesr

Hey Jack,

I'm still trying to get to grips with the interpretation of the logs myself I keep referring back to this thread http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21269 ...from what I understand FOL is autotuning
FOL: FOL is a bias applied to the HPFP pressure signal that the DME reads to affect the actual HPFP pressure. Higher values of this variable makes the DME see a lower HPFP reading and thus the DME actually raises the true HPFP pressure. If the HPFP or LPFP is weak or the E85 mixture is too high and the FOL value is also high….. typically above 85……. the DME could see a low HPFP pressure and generate a code.

FOL is an autotuning variable based on the TRIMS signal. The FOL value will trend up if during pulls the TRIMS signal is at maximum. Conversely, if the TRIMS signal is staying at zero, the FOL value will trend down.
The autotuning range of the FOL signal is 40 to 100. The maximum range is 0 to 100.

So as you said both pumps look fine...and I think the back end flash will assist on the trims...and yes the Auto shift boost reduction s something I have not yet addressed but will be looking at it.

Cheers Russ

Exactly the same as what I do Russ. Treat that page like a bible. Basically my HPFP and LPFP both seemed ok recently as well although my FOL needs to be up at 85+ for me. Mike of N54 thought my AFR settings were raising trims though. That's what I interpreted from his feedback. Some AFR values were set for 30. I don't know if it autotuned to that or got out of whack. Setting it to 0, which is off did the trick. This AFR on the all map setting seems to act as a flash of sorts. I wonder then if meth kit equipped cars require lower FOL values or could it be other mods on your car? I'd be happy if my car was tuning to a much lower FOL value as 92+ seems to raise an error by being too high.

[russjonesr]

my 2 boys look at me and the spreadsheet and think wtf?

[AWSAWS]

I set FOL to 70 and went out and did a few pulls after dropping my wife off at work. So far it has adapted up to 80. It's the first time I've let FOL adapt after setting all the AFRs to 0.

I may just go for some ethanol mixing this weekend.

[russjonesr]

I bought another 5L from Bonnymans along with my methanol, want to see if there's any quality difference, bonnymans claim the denatured ethanol they sell is 99% pure. Good luck with those runs bud

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by russjonesr

I bought another 5L from Bonnymans along with my methanol, want to see if there's any quality difference, bonnymans claim the denatured ethanol they sell is 99% pure. Good luck with those runs bud

haha, cool. Sampling other blends already. Good luck. I hope it goes well. The ekofuel is saying 97% pure on their site and 2 % other alcohols. Both will have to contain a denaturant. Looks to be 1% in both. So possibly only difference is whatever the 2% of other alcohols are. Maybe the denaturant is methanol.

So in 5l 97% = 4.85l ethanol, but 2% is other alcohols = 0.10l = 4.95l.
5l 99% = 4.95l

Interesting to see though! Good luck.