[mike5809]

UPDATE / EDIT
This thread was dug up - I am no longer on stock OTS Maps - been through the custom maps with PTF... so the original intent of this thread is void, just an FYI.

___

Hello All,

I am getting a ProTune by PTF and I just took these logs for them and wanted to post them for your initial thoughts. Primarily I wanted to see if anyone noticed any major issues. These are all 3rd to 4th gear pulls.

Car: 2011 335i xDrive M-Sport Coupe
Transmission: 6AT
Gas: 93
Plugs: New
Mods: Cobb AP V3 (Stage 2+ FMIC Aggressive), BERK 4in DP, VRSF 5in FMIC, ER CP, BMS Intake

http://datazap.me/u/mike5809/stage2-...data=1-4-6-8-9

http://datazap.me/u/mike5809/stage2-...data=1-4-6-8-9

http://datazap.me/u/mike5809/stage2-...data=1-4-6-8-9

I noticed some throttle closures, especially within the 4k RPM range - which should get fixed with the ProTune. AFR and Boost seem pretty good - but I am most concerned about Timing and a few other things.

What are your thoughts? Any major concerns? Thoughts that a ProTune can clean everything up well?

Thanks so much!

[JETmn]

Not sure why you are tapering to 11psi boost at 6k. Might want to check for a boost leak otherwise you will have to get tuned all over again. AFR looks good and boost is quite low. This looks like a 91 oct tune, but cobb stock maps are really conservative.

[mike5809]

Don't think there is a boost leak... been holding consistent boost and have peaked around 21. But who knows...

Any other thohghts?

[Unklejoe]

I'm in the finishing stages of my PTF tune and we have very similar setups (except I don't have a DP).

Your logs look alright except for a few small things. Is this on the Cobb base map or are you already running one of their (PTF) maps?

Comments:

I don't think you have a boost leak. Holding boost in the high RPM range is hard with the small turbo of the N55. I'm sure it could be done, but hardly any power would be gained. The best way to tell if you have an actual boost leak is to compare the values for "Req Boost ABS" and "Boost Mean ABS". While the numbers won't reflect the boost you are making (they will be lower), they are in fact in the same scale. The difference between these two values would be the error that is fed back in to the boost controller PID loop of the ECU, which would then control the WGDC to try and minimize it.

Your values look to be no more than 1psi or so apart in some areas, which indicates to me that the ECU has no problem controlling the boost and there is likely not a leak. In other words, the ECU is getting exactly what it requested.

If there are large differences between "Req Boost ABS" and "Boost Mean ABS", some WGDC can be added to make things easier for the PID loop. If this doesn't work, then you may have a leak.

As far as the throttle closures, they are a result of the Actual Load being greater than the Requested Load.

The ECU was designed in such a way that in stock form, the Requested Load and Actual Load are always close to each other, and the system uses throttle closures as a feedback mechanism to regulate the Actual Load.

That works fine for stock mappings, but when you start messing around with boost, it's easy to overshoot which results in excessive throttle closures.

So the general practice from tuners is to try and keep Requested Load above Actual Load at all times.

I'm fuzzy on how this is accomplished, but I believe it involves increasing the load ceilings while maintaining constant boost ceilings, which basically allows the ECU to target boost values that will always result in Actual Load values that are less than the Requested Load.

In an ideal world, there would be no boost ceiling (or the ceiling would be greater than the boost required to hit the highest load ever). The ECU would be free to use boost as a means of achieving its Requested Load. The problem with this is that it makes it very hard to prevent overshoots and therefore throttle closures.

What I've noticed on my logs is that the difference between Requested and Actual Load seems to increase as it gets in to the higher RPM range. My guess is that this results in fewer throttle closures during fast shifts.

PTF will surely be able to tune those closures out. Post back once you get a few map revisions done.

I am very happy with my tune FWIW.

[Unklejoe]

Also I'd like to add that if you had a boost leak (as in the ECU wasn't getting the boost it requested), you would get a check engine light.

Also, your car must feel pretty decent. The load looks pretty high. Higher than mine in all areas. Maybe I should buy a DP.

I don't see any crazy timing corrections which is a good sign. A degree or two pulled across random cylinders is normal and a result of noise.

Peak timing looks good right around 6 degrees.

Amazing how low MBT is on this motor. I was running 18 degrees on my 2002 turbo Maxima making 375whp on 8psi.

This motor does similar with 6 degrees of timing! I think it means it has efficient heads and combustion.

The most important thing for these motors is to not worry so much about how much boost it's making especially when using the factory DME to control things. The thing to look at is the Actual Load. The boost may fluctuate day to day depending on atmospheric conditions.

You may need 12psi to hit a 140 load on a hot day but only 8psi on a cool day. The important thing is the load is being hit.

[mike5809]

Thanks for the detailed response, Unklejoe! The map is the OTS map from Cobb (Stage2+ FMIC Aggressive). I haven't had PTF revise it yet - so I am hoping for some improvement.

I tend to agree that I don't think I have a boost leak - as the numbers seem pretty good and consistent with what an N55 with similar mods/map should have. I also reviewed the Req Boost and Boost Mean and didn't see anything too askew about the values.

How much better should it feel once the Throttle Closures are cleared up?

Right now it does feel pretty good - it pulls hard. I was a bit disapointed with Stage 2 Aggressive but there was a significant change when I went to Stage 2+ FMIC

I would recommend getting a downpipe. The turbo seems to spool a good bit faster and pulls through the RPM range a bit better - not to mention that sound

My biggest concern was the timing corrections - glad to hear you don't see any major issues!

[Bladerunner]

I'm curious to see what numbers you get after the PFT tune, I'm throwing a downpipe on this summer after my warranty expires and I will essentially have the same mods as you. I'm debating on installing METH.

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by mike5809

Thanks for the detailed response, Unklejoe! The map is the OTS map from Cobb (Stage2+ FMIC Aggressive). I haven't had PTF revise it yet - so I am hoping for some improvement.

I tend to agree that I don't think I have a boost leak - as the numbers seem pretty good and consistent with what an N55 with similar mods/map should have. I also reviewed the Req Boost and Boost Mean and didn't see anything too askew about the values.

How much better should it feel once the Throttle Closures are cleared up?

Right now it does feel pretty good - it pulls hard. I was a bit disapointed with Stage 2 Aggressive but there was a significant change when I went to Stage 2+ FMIC

I would recommend getting a downpipe. The turbo seems to spool a good bit faster and pulls through the RPM range a bit better - not to mention that sound

My biggest concern was the timing corrections - glad to hear you don't see any major issues!

Glad I could help.

I can't speak on how much better it will feel once they fix the throttle closures, but I'd expect it to feel "smoother".

I had more timing corrections than you on the Stage 1 Sport map even while running 93 oct, so I definitely wouldn't worry about it lol

[mike5809]

Originally Posted by Bladerunner

I'm curious to see what numbers you get after the PFT tune, I'm throwing a downpipe on this summer after my warranty expires and I will essentially have the same mods as you. I'm debating on installing METH.

Will let you know! I have an appointment on the 26th to DYNO it and fine tune the PTF Maps.

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

I had more timing corrections than you on the Stage 1 Sport map even while running 93 oct, so I definitely wouldn't worry about it lol

Well that is somewhat reassuring! Again, thanks so much!

[ChrisMcP05]

Originally Posted by mike5809

Will let you know! I have an appointment on the 26th to DYNO it and fine tune the PTF Maps.



Well that is somewhat reassuring! Again, thanks so much!

Hey - any update on how that PTF tune worked out? Do you highly recommend it when running the mods you have? I know I just spoke to you the other day about what to get for the car, but since we spoke I ordered the AP v3, a Cobb CP and a BMS intake for the car. Other stuff might follow soon enough

[mike5809]

Hi Chris. I had to reschedule due to the most recent storm. I have a new appointment scheduled for Monday. I will be sure to post back my experience!

Nice job on picking up some parts I knew it wouldn't take you long.

[dcaron9999]

I hope the OP does not mind, but instead of opening another thread, Im posting my PTF logs and wanted your opinion.

These are 4th gear WOT logs for my 2011 135i, running Stg2 Agressive with 94Oct (see my signature for specific bolt-ons...)

Logs 6, 8, and 10, are from the first custom MAP that Dzenno at PTF compiled for me, while 12,13,14 are a second iteration, that he provided to me.

Let me know what you guys think.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t0ox0293r...jEcyi_Bga?dl=0


Here are corresponding Virtual Dyno graphs for above logs. First one is from V1 custom PTF map. Next one is V2 custom PTF map ...

[mike5809]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

Let me know what you guys think.

Yours look better than mine in some aspects! (timing and afr)

You have no timing corrections, while I still have corrections through almost all cylinders after 7 iterations. Also your AFR looks much better than mine - more linear and not as rich. Mind you I only looked at your one log (13).

Good for you - but I am kinda bummed.

[JETmn]

It sure looks like you have a boost leak. Boost shouldn't be falling off before 4k rpm.

[mike5809]

Originally Posted by JETmn

It sure looks like you have a boost leak. Boost shouldn't be falling off before 4k rpm.

Not sure if you were replying to me or the dcaron9999 but both of ours start to fall at around 4k - pretty sure that is typical with stock turbo on N55.

Pretty positive I do not have a boost leak, no signs of it - holding boost just fine around 18 PSI and also my boost mean/boost req. are also very tight.

[JETmn]

Wow, I don't remember it falling off that hard. Maybe I forgot because I have been running the stage 1 for quite a while.

[mike5809]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Wow, I don't remember it falling off that hard. Maybe I forgot because I have been running the stage 1 for quite a while.

lucky.

Yeah, most logs I've seen seem to start a decline right before 4k and by 5.5k they are pretty done.

[Genuine1x]

I noticed you mentioned AFR being linear and not as rich. What is the ideal AFR ratio for direct injection turbo'd engines? I come from a Honda background, and when we use to tune our cars it we would shoot for 13:1 AFR ratio for N/A engines and 12:5:1 - 11:8:1 for turbo'd cars. I'm guessing with the fueling being directly injected you could run leaner mixtures with our engines N54/N55?

[E92_Baker]

Originally Posted by mike5809

Thanks for the detailed response, Unklejoe! The map is the OTS map from Cobb (Stage2+ FMIC Aggressive). I haven't had PTF revise it yet - so I am hoping for some improvement.

I tend to agree that I don't think I have a boost leak - as the numbers seem pretty good and consistent with what an N55 with similar mods/map should have. I also reviewed the Req Boost and Boost Mean and didn't see anything too askew about the values.

How much better should it feel once the Throttle Closures are cleared up?

Right now it does feel pretty good - it pulls hard. I was a bit disapointed with Stage 2 Aggressive but there was a significant change when I went to Stage 2+ FMIC

I would recommend getting a downpipe. The turbo seems to spool a good bit faster and pulls through the RPM range a bit better - not to mention that sound

My biggest concern was the timing corrections - glad to hear you don't see any major issues!

I have still yet to send you my log because its not all the way complete. but one thing i will point out is OTS Maps are good but once you feel what PTF can do it will seem like the best $250 you have ever spent. my car is really fast now here's a 0-60 run. And one thing they really addressed was the throttle response.

[mike5809]

Originally Posted by E90_Baker

I have still yet to send you my log because its not all the way complete. but one thing i will point out is OTS Maps are good but once you feel what PTF can do it will seem like the best $250 you have ever spent. my car is really fast now here's a 0-60 run. And one thing they really addressed was the throttle response.

Nice - will be interested in seeing your logs, your car I am sure runs really well! As far as my logs, I am on my 7th revision with PTF and we called it done. I still have some issues with timing - but agree, throttle response is much better and car is more more smooth. I never got down to 4.2 for 0-60, I did three times and the best I got was like 4.33 but I am sure I could do better. What are your mods - do you have a downpipe?

Originally Posted by Genuine1x

I noticed you mentioned AFR being linear and not as rich. What is the ideal AFR ratio for direct injection turbo'd engines? I come from a Honda background, and when we use to tune our cars it we would shoot for 13:1 AFR ratio for N/A engines and 12:5:1 - 11:8:1 for turbo'd cars. I'm guessing with the fueling being directly injected you could run leaner mixtures with our engines N54/N55?

Eh - I am not sure, would be best to ask a tuner or someone else. I believe that at high RPMS the N55 should be at high 11's (~11.8) but I could be wrong.

[E92_Baker]

Originally Posted by mike5809

Nice - will be interested in seeing your logs, your car I am sure runs really well! As far as my logs, I am on my 7th revision with PTF and we called it done. I still have some issues with timing - but agree, throttle response is much better and car is more more smooth. I never got down to 4.2 for 0-60, I did three times and the best I got was like 4.33 but I am sure I could do better. What are your mods - do you have a downpipe?



Eh - I am not sure, would be best to ask a tuner or someone else. I believe that at high RPMS the N55 should be at high 11's (~11.8) but I could be wrong.

Nope no down pipe all I've done is intake. And this tune.I was considering a down pipe for awhile, I've just heard really positive and negative i pushed it off. I did buy Michelin super sport tires which when warmed up make you feel like you have all wheel drive. Which my buddy has a upgraded FMIC and down pipe and his times are identical to mine. So I'm not sure how I'm able to pull that time with the little mods I have but i do.

[E92_Baker]

Originally Posted by mike5809

Nice - will be interested in seeing your logs, your car I am sure runs really well! As far as my logs, I am on my 7th revision with PTF and we called it done. I still have some issues with timing - but agree, throttle response is much better and car is more more smooth. I never got down to 4.2 for 0-60, I did three times and the best I got was like 4.33 but I am sure I could do better. What are your mods - do you have a downpipe?



Eh - I am not sure, would be best to ask a tuner or someone else. I believe that at high RPMS the N55 should be at high 11's (~11.8) but I could be wrong.

Also i doubt you have a boost leak. I hit 15-21PSI and when i get to 6,000RPM it tappers off to anywhere from 10PSI-13PSI, as soon as i shift its right back up in the high teens. I think thats normal