R8 V12 TDI has a MT; Why no MT 335d?

Terza · 01-14-2008, 10:30 AM

It's ineresting that BMW claim that they can't produce a strong enough manual transmission for the 335d/535d, while Audi offers a manual for their 500hp/1000NM/6000CC/V12 engine.

I'm looking at this purely from a technical point of view, because I'd never buy a 335d/535d with a manual.

More info on the R8 V12 TDI: http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080113....ncept-revealed

NFS · 01-14-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terza

It's ineresting that BMW claim that they can't produce a strong enough manual transmission for the 335d/535d, while Audi offers a manual for their 500hp/1000NM/6000CC/V12 engine.

I'm looking at this purely from a technical point of view, because I'd never buy a 335d/535d with a manual.

More info on the R8 V12 TDI: http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080113....ncept-revealed

I've made this point in the past myself. It's clearly nonsense to say that a manual can't deal with the torque of the 335d / 535d when there are plenty of manual cars around (albeit quite exotic ones) with manual boxes and higher levels of torque.

I think BMW have gone auto because it's the cheapest option for the 535d and they don't feel that there is a market for a manual anyway.

R8 diesel sounds incredible though ... 1000nm

Terza · 01-14-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I've made this point in the past myself. It's clearly nonsense to say that a manual can't deal with the torque of the 335d / 535d when there are plenty of manual cars around (albeit quite exotic ones) with manual boxes and higher levels of torque.

I think BMW have gone auto because it's the cheapest option for the 535d and they don't feel that there is a market for a manual anyway.

R8 diesel sounds incredible though ... 1000nm

Yes, incredible indeed, I think the DXB has finally met it's match.. Or has it?

NFS · 01-14-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terza

Yes, incredible indeed, I think the DXB has finally met it's match.. Or has it?

I'm sure that the DXB would destroy a V12 diesel R8 at Santa Pod.

red-max · 01-14-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I'm sure that the DXB would destroy a V12 diesel R8 at Santa Pod.

Or, it might go something like this...
Bugatti Veyron vs BMW M3

Scoot · 01-14-2008, 12:28 PM

Why would anyone really want a diesel R8 ? It's supposed to be a sports car !

dxb335d · 01-14-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoot

Why would anyone really want a diesel R8 ? It's supposed to be a sports car !

Its got 500bhp, and whatever torque, WHY wouldnt you want it?

the current one has 400 odd bhp. The diesel is quicker by quite some margin.

Steve A · 01-14-2008, 02:19 PM

That is bananas!!! in gear that will be mega!

On the subject of the 335d not having a manual version, my take is that it would be faster than the i ans BMW did not want that!!

dxb335d · 01-14-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve A

That is bananas!!! in gear that will be mega!

On the subject of the 335d not having a manual version, my take is that it would be faster than the i ans BMW did not want that!!

+1

Where as Audi dont mind the diesel approach being quicker as they want to promote this as they won le-mans with a diesel.

Steve A · 01-14-2008, 02:27 PM

eye young lad, eye!!!

G33 · 01-14-2008, 03:14 PM

Terza · 01-14-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve A

That is bananas!!! in gear that will be mega!

On the subject of the 335d not having a manual version, my take is that it would be faster than the i ans BMW did not want that!!

Sorry mate, I really think we need to put things in to perspective. If you believe that a manual 335d would be quicker than a manual 335i, shouldn't the automatic 335d then be quicker than an automatic 335i? Same gearboxes (ok, the 335d gearbox is a bit tougher because of the torque, but it's still the same thing), same power losses, same everything..

You can argue that in-gear a 335d is as fast/maybe faster than a 335i, but ultimately 335i is the faster car.

ChrisMWard · 01-14-2008, 03:16 PM

I would guess the main reason why a manual isn't offered is there simply isn't one available of the shelf. BMW don't manufacture their own gearboxes, just buy units from the likes of Getrag and ZF. There probably isn't the volumes required to warrant a manual being designed Just for the 35ds. There are plenty off auto boxes capable of handling the torque, but the only suitably rated manuals are fitted in trucks and they would hardly have the refinement for a sporting drive.

Regards

Chris

dxb335d · 01-14-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terza

Sorry mate, I really think we need to put things in to perspective. If you believe that a manual 335d would be quicker than a manual 335i, shouldn't the automatic 335d then be quicker than an automatic 335i? Same gearboxes (ok, the 335d gearbox is a bit tougher because of the torque, but it's still the same thing), same power losses, same everything..

You can argue that in-gear a 335d is as fast/maybe faster than a 335i, but ultimately 335i is the faster car.

Your in dream land if you think a 335i is quicker than a 335d. There is sweet FA in it. Not one quicker than the other.

Terza · 01-14-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Your in dream land if you think a 335i is quicker than a 335d. There is sweet FA in it. Not one quicker than the other.

I don't understand the bolded part.

Steve A · 01-14-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terza

I don't understand the bolded part.

sweet fuck all, as in nothing between the 2 in terms of speed.

dxb335d · 01-14-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terza

I don't understand the bolded part.

there is sweet fuck all in it.

this means there is nothing in it, between the two cars.

Terza · 01-14-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve A

sweet fuck all, as in nothing between the 2 in terms of speed.

Oh.. Thanks..

Terza · 01-14-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

there is sweet fuck all in it.

this means there is nothing in it, between the two cars.

Thanks #2..

dxb335d · 01-14-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terza

Thanks #2..

thats ok

vivekk · 01-14-2008, 04:15 PM

It's nice to see how well we can teach our European colleagues the art of 'swearing etiquette', isn't it.

Viv

G33 · 01-14-2008, 04:17 PM

but we all know the DXB is just a glorified tractor

01-14-2008, 10:30 AM	#1
Terza Second Lieutenant 7 Rep 205 Posts Drives: E92 335d Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dubrovnik/Zagreb, Croatia iTrader: (0)	R8 V12 TDI has a MT; Why no MT 335d? It's ineresting that BMW claim that they can't produce a strong enough manual transmission for the 335d/535d, while Audi offers a manual for their 500hp/1000NM/6000CC/V12 engine. I'm looking at this purely from a technical point of view, because I'd never buy a 335d/535d with a manual. More info on the R8 V12 TDI: http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080113....ncept-revealed
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01-14-2008, 12:28 PM	#6
Scoot Lieutenant 50 Rep 468 Posts Drives: 992 C2s Crayon / Golf R 7.5 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Why would anyone really want a diesel R8 ? It's supposed to be a sports car !
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01-14-2008, 02:19 PM	#8
Steve A Brigadier General 96 Rep 3,465 Posts Drives: too much Join Date: May 2007 Location: Manchester UK iTrader: (0)	That is bananas!!! in gear that will be mega! On the subject of the 335d not having a manual version, my take is that it would be faster than the i ans BMW did not want that!! __________________ C350 cdi sport estate facelift 457lbft 130i M SportMercedes C350 CDI Sport Estate AutoMini Cooper Auto.Mercedes E250 CGI,Lexus IS-F,R36, RS4 Saloon,ML 420 CDI SPORT,M6, 335d, C55, C32, M3, M5, S3, ALL SOLD but fondly remembered
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01-14-2008, 02:27 PM	#10
Steve A Brigadier General 96 Rep 3,465 Posts Drives: too much Join Date: May 2007 Location: Manchester UK iTrader: (0)	eye young lad, eye!!! __________________ C350 cdi sport estate facelift 457lbft 130i M SportMercedes C350 CDI Sport Estate AutoMini Cooper Auto.Mercedes E250 CGI,Lexus IS-F,R36, RS4 Saloon,ML 420 CDI SPORT,M6, 335d, C55, C32, M3, M5, S3, ALL SOLD but fondly remembered
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01-14-2008, 03:14 PM	#11
G33 Colonel 91 Rep 2,079 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London iTrader: (0)
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01-14-2008, 03:16 PM	#13
ChrisMWard Captain 14 Rep 686 Posts Drives: E93 320d M Sport, E81 116d SE Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Epsom UK iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 120d SE [0.00] 2007 335d A M Sport [0.00] 1998 M3 Evo [0.00] 2002 330d Sport [0.00] 2004 330d Sport [0.00]	I would guess the main reason why a manual isn't offered is there simply isn't one available of the shelf. BMW don't manufacture their own gearboxes, just buy units from the likes of Getrag and ZF. There probably isn't the volumes required to warrant a manual being designed Just for the 35ds. There are plenty off auto boxes capable of handling the torque, but the only suitably rated manuals are fitted in trucks and they would hardly have the refinement for a sporting drive. Regards Chris __________________ Previously: 2007 335D MSport E90 Le Mans Blue, 2004 330D A Sport Silver Grey, 2002 330D A Sport Saphire Black, 2001 320D SE Touring Titanium Silver, 1998 M3 Evo Techno Violet, 1996 328i Sport Montreal Blue, 1994 325i Coupe Red, 1989 325i Sport 2 door Dolphin Grey,1986 325i SE 4 door Lachs
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01-14-2008, 04:15 PM	#21
vivekk THE Viv 184 Rep 4,743 Posts Drives: 330i SE Join Date: May 2005 Location: the North, UK iTrader: (0) Garage List 2005 BMW e90 330iSE [0.00]	It's nice to see how well we can teach our European colleagues the art of 'swearing etiquette', isn't it. Viv __________________ [TiAg ▪ Dakota Black ▪ Active steering ▪ Sports suspension ▪ 162s ▪ Sports seats ▪ Al trim ▪ Bi-Xenons ▪ F&R PDC ▪ NavPro ▪ Voice control ▪ Bluetooth ▪ 6CD Logic7]
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01-14-2008, 04:17 PM	#22
G33 Colonel 91 Rep 2,079 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London iTrader: (0)	but we all know the DXB is just a glorified tractor
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