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      11-27-2014, 02:31 AM   #1
kitw
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KW V3 review - installed on F80 M3

Just installed KW V3 coilovers on my car. I was very tempted to go Clubsports since they were available first, but this is my daily and I don't intend to track it, I went with V3 with the stock top hats. This limits the camber available but retains more ride quality.

The KW v3 are very nice units, I've owned 10+ sets of them on various cars. One thing that I've struggled with is accessibility of the adjustments - It's a pain to stick the adjustor in up top and the early ones didn't have clicks that you could listen for. Plus, I had to do significant adjustments to get good street rides with good track performance.

I've also run Clubsports (on my F80 M3) and I liked them alright on smooth tracks, they were not the most comfortable for street driving. The new Clubsport units look very nice, but I wanted something milder for this car.

I'm absolutely thrilled with the ride.Edit from later - WAS! WAS thrilled with the ride, see below The car is very well damped - under say 50mph, it rides a little stiffer and is a bit more busy, but it's very close to stock, much more so than the H&Rs which started to get a little bouncy.

I'm running the car just about as high as you can safely go in the rear and it's about the same ride height as my H&R Sports (50474-6 M3 specific). The M4 rides higher in the rear stock and likely will drop the car further on the rear adjusters. One thing to note: the rear rebound adjuster is now accessible from the wheel well instead of having to either cut holes in the trunk carpet or peel it back to reach them. This is very handy. The compression adjuster is on the bottom of the shock (both front and rear)

Damping is really good, the car feels like it is glued to the ground and very confident feeling in corners. This is not a cheap solution for lowering the car, but a lot better than making the car ride and handle worse with springs. I'm really curious to see if the Eibachs end up better than the H&Rs due to their really mild drop (0.8"/0.2"). But, without upgraded shock absorbers, I doubt they will do much better.

The KW V3 have much shorter shock bodies than stock - the F80/F82 like the e9x prior, has very little suspension travel at the static ride height - less than 2" before you contact the soft squishy bump stop. The bump stop is nice and soft at the beginning of travel but quickly ramps up as you compress it, making it act like a very short progressive rate spring. Likely the suspension is tuned to make some use of it. That said, I'm really picky about ride quality. The H&Rs rode fine most of the time, it was just bumps in the middle of corners or multiple bumps in a row that could cause a bit of bounciness. I gotta admit, I was happier with the H&Rs than any other BMW spring only upgrade I've done.

Anyway, the V3s are great. I'm very happy with my choice to go with them. Sorry about the craptastic photos - more when I have a chance to clean the car up and take pics with my real camera. (I do have the BMW Performance front lip and splitters and they are very low - I scrape if I am not careful but the performance lip is made for this, so it hasn't had any adverse affects on the car yet.)

UPDATE - after about a month, I realized I was just really happy to get rid of the bounciness of the H&Rs and the KWs didn't ride that great. I never got to the point where I was happy with them and felt that they rode poorly and stuck poorly. I tried adjusting them a few different times and never was happy with them. The ride is very busy and it feels like the car is constantly moving around and they don't absorb sharp mid corner bumps well

I ended up selling my F80 and getting an e92, because I missed the exhaust note, and realized I missed the power of the F8x and bought an F82, which I stuck JRZ RStwo Touring on which I love.
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      11-27-2014, 05:52 AM   #2
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Looks good! It looks lower to me than with the H&R springs though.
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      11-27-2014, 11:10 AM   #3
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Too low. Too much wheel gap is one thing, but now the wheel is much closer to the top of the wheel well than the sides are and it looks 'off'.

Gives me the same feeling I get when I see kids with their pants hanging below their ass.
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      11-27-2014, 01:24 PM   #4
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A couple of questions

Just confirming the ride height. You say the rear is pretty close to maximum height, but that looks low! What about the front?

Also, any pics of the writing on the springs so I can ID the spring rates?
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      11-27-2014, 06:17 PM   #5
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Think he must mean close to max LOW ride height. I have V3s on mid-height setting and they are nowhere near this low. Love the V3s! Completely transformed the ride of the car. Stock EDC is floaty at the limit. With V3s the car is just planted. Big fan.
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      11-27-2014, 06:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers View Post
Think he must mean close to max LOW ride height. I have V3s on mid-height setting and they are nowhere near this low. Love the V3s! Completely transformed the ride of the car. Stock EDC is floaty at the limit. With V3s the car is just planted. Big fan.

Nope, this is as high as they will reasonably go in the rear. I think the shadows are making the car look lower than it is. It is maybe 1/2" lower than stock in the rear, if that.

It is about the same as the H&R in the front and a bit higher than the H&R in the rear. Sorry guys - will take some better photos, the ones I took of my car with the H&Rs are much clearer taken with a DSLR in the daylight.
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      11-27-2014, 06:57 PM   #7
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Nice! I always love the V3s. How was the setting up phase. As tempted as I am by the end result of having a set of perfectly setup V3s on my F80, I really dread going through the set up process.

Your car looks great!!!
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      11-27-2014, 07:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l!ve View Post
Nice! I always love the V3s. How was the setting up phase. As tempted as I am by the end result of having a set of perfectly setup V3s on my F80, I really dread going through the set up process.

Your car looks great!!!
They are fantastic out of the box. I haven't played with the settings but they nailed the street settings
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      11-27-2014, 09:38 PM   #9
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Weird. Must be shadows in pic. My drop was more significant. About 1" up front and .8" in back. I also used out of box recommended setup and love the results. Haven't dialed in any changes yet
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      11-27-2014, 10:03 PM   #10
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Nice. Out of box settings have never worked for me and so the process has been tedious. Lucky you!
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      12-01-2014, 05:02 PM   #11
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Here's another shot of the car during the day. Still hard to tell the ride height, because of the shadows. It is pretty low, but looks mean. I am happy with the ride height. Car won't really go a lot higher. Maybe 1/2" or so - if you want to raise the car from stock, this is not the suspension for you.

Still thrilled with the ride quality!
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      12-01-2014, 05:19 PM   #12
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How much lower than max height do you have it in front / rear?

Basically measuring from perch at zero compression/max height.

Thanks, and car looks great!
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      12-02-2014, 10:49 AM   #13
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I will have to measure again, sorry. The front can go much higher than stock, but the rears I wouldn't go much higher on. They aren't exactly out of threads, and there shouldn't be a ton of side loads, but the rear spring has a decent lever arm on it and I would be nervous about raising that perch too high.
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      12-07-2014, 09:56 PM   #14
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Did you corner balance your car to restore factory weight distribution?

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      12-09-2014, 12:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Did you corner balance your car to restore factory weight distribution?
You know that is not what corner balancing is for, right?
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      12-09-2014, 09:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
You know that is not what corner balancing is for, right?
Please elaborate and educate. My understanding is one of the benefits of using coilovers to lower your car, is being able to balance the car's corner height while the driver is in the seat. The corner's height can manipulate the weight distribution of each corner. So if the front is significantly lower than the rear, your weight will be shifted to the front (vice versa).

Since the M3 is so well balanced, people would try to restore it to the factory weight distribution after lowering it. Yes, true corner weight balancing is actually moving parts around. BMW already did that for us, that's why the battery is in the back and our engine sits slightly behind/top of the front wheels (simplistically speaking).
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      12-10-2014, 03:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Please elaborate and educate. My understanding is one of the benefits of using coilovers to lower your car, is being able to balance the car's corner height while the driver is in the seat. The corner's height can manipulate the weight distribution of each corner. So if the front is significantly lower than the rear, your weight will be shifted to the front (vice versa).

Since the M3 is so well balanced, people would try to restore it to the factory weight distribution after lowering it. Yes, true corner weight balancing is actually moving parts around. BMW already did that for us, that's why the battery is in the back and our engine sits slightly behind/top of the front wheels (simplistically speaking).
You are getting two similar but slightly different things confused.

With coilovers you can adjust the front height vs the rear, which adjusts the front to rear weight balance. In motorsport this is generally called "rake". This can be used to alter the handling characteristics of the car.

Corner balancing is slightly different. Corner balancing is done when the ideal ride height and rake has already been determined and set. Corner balancing is then very subtle adjustment of the ride height on each corner of the car to better adjust balance. This is done on a diagonal basis, not side to side or front to rear. ie the aim is get the weight of FL+ RR to as closely as possible match FR + LR. In simplest terms this is to try and ensure that the car handles the same turning left and turning right. However, really it is more about having smooth transitions as the weight shifts from left to right.

So in motorsport you test and determine the optimal ride height and rake, and then fine tune by corner balancing. This is done with the driver (or equivalent weight) in the drivers seat, and simulated race setup, eg fuel in tank etc.

For the street it is generally different. People are more inclined to set up ride height and rake to achieve a particular look, "stance". In this situation corner balancing is a waste of time and money. Some want to adjust the car for better handling. However, unless the setup is first tuned to appropriate ride height and rake first, then corner balancing is also a waste of time.

The factory works hard to try and get a good balance in the car by locating various heavy movable components in certain places. However, this is not precise as options on the car vary widely, and there ar even left hand and right hand drive versions, which vary considerably. Setting up coilovers is certainly not a case of trying to duplicate the original factory weight balance
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      12-10-2014, 09:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbo mcs View Post
You are getting two similar but slightly different things confused.

With coilovers you can adjust the front height vs the rear, which adjusts the front to rear weight balance. In motorsport this is generally called "rake". This can be used to alter the handling characteristics of the car.

Corner balancing is slightly different. Corner balancing is done when the ideal ride height and rake has already been determined and set. Corner balancing is then very subtle adjustment of the ride height on each corner of the car to better adjust balance. This is done on a diagonal basis, not side to side or front to rear. ie the aim is get the weight of FL+ RR to as closely as possible match FR + LR. In simplest terms this is to try and ensure that the car handles the same turning left and turning right. However, really it is more about having smooth transitions as the weight shifts from left to right.

So in motorsport you test and determine the optimal ride height and rake, and then fine tune by corner balancing. This is done with the driver (or equivalent weight) in the drivers seat, and simulated race setup, eg fuel in tank etc.

For the street it is generally different. People are more inclined to set up ride height and rake to achieve a particular look, "stance". In this situation corner balancing is a waste of time and money. Some want to adjust the car for better handling. However, unless the setup is first tuned to appropriate ride height and rake first, then corner balancing is also a waste of time.

The factory works hard to try and get a good balance in the car by locating various heavy movable components in certain places. However, this is not precise as options on the car vary widely, and there ar even left hand and right hand drive versions, which vary considerably. Setting up coilovers is certainly not a case of trying to duplicate the original factory weight balance
Good information.
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      12-10-2014, 10:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Here's another shot of the car during the day. Still hard to tell the ride height, because of the shadows. It is pretty low, but looks mean. I am happy with the ride height. Car won't really go a lot higher. Maybe 1/2" or so - if you want to raise the car from stock, this is not the suspension for you.

Still thrilled with the ride quality!
So you did not adjust the perch at all prior to installing? Just left how it was delivered?
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      12-10-2014, 01:02 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 0-100 nga real quick View Post
So you did not adjust the perch at all prior to installing? Just left how it was delivered?
That isn't what I said - I didn't touch the damping adjustments except to make sure they were indeed in the factory recommended positions.
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      12-10-2014, 01:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
That isn't what I said - I didn't touch the damping adjustments except to make sure they were indeed in the factory recommended positions.
I must have worded my post wrong. It was all a question.

Let me try again - Did you adjust the perch lower than how it arrived?
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      12-10-2014, 03:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-100 nga real quick View Post
I must have worded my post wrong. It was all a question.

Let me try again - Did you adjust the perch lower than how it arrived?
They arrive in a non-ideal position, so yes
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