[Simon99]

Hey guys, what's up ! I've been owning a Subaru BRZ for a year now and, despite it being a wonderful (read best drivers car with a sub 30K budget), I really need to move on to something else with the winter we have here in Canada, that started early November.

I've became addicted to tracking but finding a car well suited for that (other than the over-abundant hatchback STi or the super cheap looking Evolution X), it's a tough choice when considering an AWD platform. That's how I came to look for used 335i XDrive (simply put because the S4 gas comsuption is beyond sane) and that I fell in love with the more upscale feel and look of it.

So I decided to come here, after having read and researched many reviews and threads asking about questions I couldn't find answers for, mainly looking for real owners opinions. Feel free to answers some or all, and thank you for sharing your knowledge !

1. Regarding the automatic transmission (although I've had all manuals cars, I think I'm ready for an auto box that is as highly praised as the steptronic. I'm more concerned about the reliability of it, although I think I've read some say it's rated as high as 440 NM torque ? Is that true ?

2. Did the automatic transmission change from 2008-2012 (2012 being the arrival of the DCT I believe) ?

3. To those of you who track (and have maybe tried other cars), how would you rate the handling, body roll and overall feeling of the car during turns ?

4. And finally, I've seen many comment on the higher priced maintenance on BMW, which is expected, but are the car pretty DIY-able ?(compared to like Porsches that requires specialized tools and basically a lift to do remotely anything.)


I thank all of you for your advices and pointers regarding the upcoming purchase of such a car. Have a great day !

Simon

[Simon99]

So altough I haven't had any reply, I feel like this info could be useful to some, so I'll report with what I found.

It seems that "The ZF 6HP26 is rated for 443 lb/ft", so power shouldn't be a problem for pretty much any mods for a DD.

Regarding the body roll, it seems that a rear sway (to eliminate the understeer) and a Bilstein strut paired with good springs would be the say to go (to also lower center of gravity), since not all suspension part seem to fit the xi.

Still looking for outputs regarding the maintenance of a 60/40 street/track 335xi.

Thanks !

[Antetokounmpo]

1. The auto didn't change until the new F30 body style appeared in 2012. All E90 335i's have the ZF 6-speed box which is a traditional torque converter design. People say it can handle more power than the manual.

2. I've autocrossed my 335xi a bunch of times and on stock xi suspension (xi doesn't get the sport suspension even with the sport package) it has quite a bit of roll but still handles decent. I'd definitely recommend getting coil overs if you're going to track it. Keep in mind the xdrive isn't a performance all wheel drive system like an evo or STi has, it's more for safety but still handles decent if you can trail brake.

3. The car is extremely easy to diy on almost everything, oil changes can be done in as little as 15 min. Most parts can be found online for reasonable prices, definitely diy as much as possible because dealers will rip you off.

[galahad05]

With the change in struts and springs, are you suggesting that you'll be lowering the car? Won't this interfere with winter driving? Ground clearance....

[Victor328i]

Originally Posted by galahad05

With the change in struts and springs, are you suggesting that you'll be lowering the car? Won't this interfere with winter driving? Ground clearance....

My friend has an xi and the the stock fender gap is huge. If you lowered your car one inch, you are still sitting relatively high.

[Simon99]

I was looking at coils, but they seem they be rare for the xi. So I though an inch drop couldn't really kill anyone, compared to my BRZ that has shit clearance at stock height. Regarding the AWD, what did you imply saying it's not as sport oriented as the Evo or STi ? I know it might not be geared towards sport, but I believe it having a basic LSD would suit some track trashing easily ?

[kfriceman]

Originally Posted by Simon99

Hey guys, what's up ! I've been owning a Subaru BRZ for a year now and, despite it being a wonderful (read best drivers car with a sub 30K budget), I really need to move on to something else with the winter we have here in Canada, that started early November.

I've became addicted to tracking but finding a car well suited for that (other than the over-abundant hatchback STi or the super cheap looking Evolution X), it's a tough choice when considering an AWD platform. That's how I came to look for used 335i XDrive (simply put because the S4 gas comsuption is beyond sane) and that I fell in love with the more upscale feel and look of it.

So I decided to come here, after having read and researched many reviews and threads asking about questions I couldn't find answers for, mainly looking for real owners opinions. Feel free to answers some or all, and thank you for sharing your knowledge !

1. Regarding the automatic transmission (although I've had all manuals cars, I think I'm ready for an auto box that is as highly praised as the steptronic. I'm more concerned about the reliability of it, although I think I've read some say it's rated as high as 440 NM torque ? Is that true ?

2. Did the automatic transmission change from 2008-2012 (2012 being the arrival of the DCT I believe) ?

3. To those of you who track (and have maybe tried other cars), how would you rate the handling, body roll and overall feeling of the car during turns ?

4. And finally, I've seen many comment on the higher priced maintenance on BMW, which is expected, but are the car pretty DIY-able ?(compared to like Porsches that requires specialized tools and basically a lift to do remotely anything.)


I thank all of you for your advices and pointers regarding the upcoming purchase of such a car. Have a great day !

Simon

If you could not find the answers to these four questions, then your search abilities are considerably lacking. This information is widely available across this forum. So you bought a RWD drive car and now just realized that it is not a good choice for the area you live in…..wow.

If you want to track anything your money is better spent on learning how to drive, that alone and you could run circles around most in a Kia.

-Kevin

[gtaccord]

Originally Posted by Simon99

I was looking at coils, but they seem they be rare for the xi. So I though an inch drop couldn't really kill anyone, compared to my BRZ that has shit clearance at stock height. Regarding the AWD, what did you imply saying it's not as sport oriented as the Evo or STi ? I know it might not be geared towards sport, but I believe it having a basic LSD would suit some track trashing easily ?

No 335 has a lsd from the factory.

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by kfriceman

If you could not find the answers to these four questions, then your search abilities are considerably lacking. This information is widely available across this forum. So you bought a RWD drive car and now just realized that it is not a good choice for the area you live in…..wow.

If you want to track anything your money is better spent on learning how to drive, that alone and you could run circles around most in a Kia.

-Kevin

Thanks for your advices Kevin, I have around 200 hours at Calabogie Motorsports Park, 20 at Mosport and maybe 10 at Shannonville (use your search abilities to look em up) and multiple AutoX events. And yes I bought a RWD car expecting to drive it in the winter but I think it would be a waste and require a change in my coilovers setup to allow for a raise with ground clearance, but thanks for your advices recommending me to take track courses, I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by gtaccord

No 335 has a lsd from the factory.

Thanks, I figured but I was wondering what concerns bk335 had regarding the stock LSD on a track compared to the STi or the EVO computer controlled diff

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by Simon99

I was looking at coils, but they seem they be rare for the xi. So I though an inch drop couldn't really kill anyone, compared to my BRZ that has shit clearance at stock height. Regarding the AWD, what did you imply saying it's not as sport oriented as the Evo or STi ? I know it might not be geared towards sport, but I believe it having a basic LSD would suit some track trashing easily ?

Perhaps if there is an LSD available for the xi. I'm not sure if there is, I haven't looked into it. xDrive is primarily rear wheel drive biased (60/40 r/f split or so) until the wheels start slipping then it'll send power to the ones with traction. In something like an STi, it can lock the center diff and it almost ends up "clawing" around corners in a slight 4 wheel power slide. The xDrive won't do this but it is possible to get the back end to come around with some good driving technique.

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by bk335

Perhaps if there is an LSD available for the xi. I'm not sure if there is, I haven't looked into it. xDrive is primarily rear wheel drive biased (60/40 r/f split or so) until the wheels start slipping then it'll send power to the ones with traction. In something like an STi, it can lock the center diff and it almost ends up "clawing" around corners in a slight 4 wheel power slide. The xDrive won't do this but it is possible to get the back end to come around with some good driving technique.

I get it ! I would think a 40/60 split with a good setup could actually be good to allow some rotation, when I tried a WRX I felt like the way AWD worked almost made it feel like it was some sort of traction control !

[thegrinchboy]

My 2 cents worth...

1. Stick with 6MT. The BMW 6MT is amazing. You'll love it and be probably be happier, especially if that's what you've driven mostly, and intend to track.

2. I don't track my 335xi, but the stock xDrive suspension has too much body roll for me, even for daily driving. Per BK335, xDrive with sport or msport pkg only comes with stock suspension. Lots of people swap out to aftermarket suspension. Check out the All Wheel Drive / xDrive section of the forum for more info.

Good luck and have fun modding!

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by thegrinchboy

My 2 cents worth...

1. Stick with 6MT. The BMW 6MT is amazing. You'll love it and be probably be happier, especially if that's what you've driven mostly, and intend to track.

2. I don't track my 335xi, but the stock xDrive suspension has too much body roll for me, even for daily driving. Per BK335, xDrive with sport or msport pkg only comes with stock suspension. Lots of people swap out to aftermarket suspension. Check out the All Wheel Drive / xDrive section of the forum for more info.

Good luck and have fun modding!

All that talk of body roll is scaring me ... Thanks for your output

[thegrinchboy]

Originally Posted by Simon99

All that talk of body roll is scaring me ... Thanks for your output

Honestly, most everyday drivers, enthusiasts aside, probably won't mind the body roll or softness, as it is still better than 75% of vehicles out there. However, since you have tracked in the past and plan to do so in this vehicle, it will be most likely be very noticeable to you.

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by thegrinchboy

Honestly, most everyday drivers, enthusiasts aside, probably won't mind the body roll or softness, as it is still better than 75% of vehicles out there. However, since you have tracked in the past and plan to do so in this vehicle, it will be most likely be very noticeable to you.

Yeah I know, well I'm glad (somewhat) I found out that even the M package doesn't include sport suspension on the X-Drive, as body roll was expected from a high end coupe, but though a sportier suspension would help... Too bad they don't make an AWD M3 or 135 !

[paintballdude05]

As far as winter DD the car you shouldn't have any issues as long as you get some half decent tires. I had to drive mine in the snow for a little bit this year before putting it away. The Michelin Pilot's RFT that were on there were HORRIBLE in the snow. Yes I know they are summer tires but it was pretty scary at times. I have no doubt that if you were to add good winter tires to these cars they would be a tank in the snow.

As far as body roll is concerned, yeah there is some. But as others have mentioned, you can solve most of it with some new coilovers and struts.

I'm not sure what part of the country you live in, but I don't see why you couldn't get away with a RWD e90 and some winter tires. The traction control systems on these cars are pretty damn good and there's an okay amount of ground clearance stock.

[Jacblack]

The body roll isn't that bad in stock form, but after driving a stock one recently I can say suspension is a pleasant upgrade.

The RFT are extremely hard, car rides much smoother without them.

I haven't done a road course in my e92 but at the drag strip the auto and xdrive are the perfect combo!

[vapore0n]

Why not just get tires for the BRZ? Or a beater for the winter. Its much cheaper.

To me, the 335i Xdrive was built with comfort first, and then performance.
Its like they just took a 328xi and added a bigger engine.

I had to swap the springs/struts for something more performance oriented, as the car was not good. Driving over 80mph on the highway was scary. Hitting bumps or pot holes while taking on/off ramps was even more, as the car acted like it was going to veer of the road.
Guess the problem was that I drove my 335 like I drove my STI.

[Jacblack]

The e9x is just a smooth car period, but all you really need is a good suspension and you're set. I love my h&r coils.

[Simon99]

I've though about a beater and that's actually what I have right now. The thing is, I'm 20 and paying for alml the car myself and not having the revenues of a 35 y/o, it hurts me to pay 1000$ a month for a stored car.

But trust me, unless I raise the BRZ, winter driving is not an option...

I appreciate all the output, the general consensus seems to be that the 335i is a decent sports car on the street but would need work, mainly suspension wise, the be effective on the track. I had read that there were some VANOS (if I remember correctly) issues on the N54. Is that the same with the N55 ?

And thoughs on that car : http://bit.ly/1AqlO7k

[geko29]

How do you pay $1000/mo for a BRZ? To get to that point, you'd need a Limited with AT, no trade, nothing down and a 2-year note.

You could really go either way (i/xi) on the E92. I live in Chicago which gets slightly less snow that most of Canada--but still a pretty good amount. This is year 14 for me in a RWD 3-series (first an E46 323i, now an E90 335d). Put a good set of snows on and most winter worries go away. Sport and M-Sport cars come with sport suspension, there's less mechanical stuff to go wrong, and of course you get the RWD handling you're used to. And of course, you can go M3/135i if you want, which you can't do if AWD is a requirement.

With the Xi, you'll get AWD, but have some work to do suspension-wise to get it close to the track performance of the RWD models, and you're dragging around the extra driveline baggage all the time, not just when you need it. Of course, an AWD on snow tires is pretty much unstoppable in the winter.

[Jacblack]

Maybe he means total expenses, payment, insurance and storage, I'm
Not sure

The brz/frs chassis is not a supernova around the track either, so it is not like the 335 would that much of a downgrade in the handling department. Trust me I know because I sell toyotas for a living. I would much rather have the added power and upgrade the suspension.

For street driving I prefer the awd honestly, and I'm in the mid atlantic so it will be sunny and 70 on Monday and 5 inches of snow on Tuesday.

How fast a car can move around a track is also heavily dependent on the skill of the driver.