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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > ZIP Tuning now offering OBD/flash tuning for Fxx gen BMW
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      10-30-2014, 05:56 AM   #1
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ZIP Tuning now offering OBD/flash tuning for Fxx gen BMW

One more European tuner announcing that Fxx gen BMW's now can be tuned via OBD/software flash and not piggyback (only offering diesel versions as of now):

http://www.ziptuning.nl/Nieuws/Tunin...-post-946.html

Quote:
Diesel engines also now software tuning BMW F-models!

Diesel Cars of the BMW F models were previously only tune through an external ECU. We at Ziptuning been working to find a solution so that these models can be modified directly in the ECU.


The tuning is available for the engine types from now: D20D N47, N57 and N57-D30B-D30C. These motors are in the 1-series, 2-series, 3-series, GT 3, 4 series, 4 GC, 5 series, GT 5, 6 series, GC 6, 7-series, X1, X3, X4 , X5 and X6 models! The luxurious M550d F10 / F11 as standard 381 hp and 740 Nm is software tuning to 422 hp and 803 Nm from now

Under development

Unfortunately, there are still a number of engine types that can not be tuned. These are the types of motors: B47-D20A, D20C-N47 and N57-D30A. If it is possible for us to tune it then let you know as soon as possible! This type engines


Small selection of BMW models now software tune from are:
Fuel Type Model Year standard horsepower standard Nm
1 serie-125D Diesel F20/F21 2012 218 450
2 serie-225D Diesel F22 2014 218 450
3 serie-325D Diesel F30 2013 218 450
3 serie-325D Diesel F34/GT 2013 218 450
4 serie-425D Diesel F32 2014 218 450
4 serie-435D Diesel F32 2013 313 630
4 serie-435D Diesel GC 2014 313 630
5 serie-535D Diesel GT 2010 313 630
5 serie-525D Diesel F10 2010/2011 218 450
5 serie-525D Diesel F10 2010/2011 204 450
5 serie-530D Diesel F10 2011 245 540
5 serie-535D Diesel F10 2011 300 600
5 serie-535D Diesel F10 2011/2012 313 630
5 serie-550D Diesel F10 2012 381 740
6 serie-640D Diesel F12/F13 2011 313 630
7 serie-740D Diesel F01/F02 2009/2012 306 600
7 serie-740D Diesel F01/F02 2012 313 630
7 serie-750D Diesel F01/F02 2012 381 740
X1-25D Diesel E84 2012 218 450
X3-35D Diesel F25 2011 313 630
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      10-30-2014, 09:51 AM   #2
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correct me if im wrong, but dont these tunes get over-ridden if the dealer does any software updates to the ECU?
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      10-30-2014, 11:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carzaddict View Post
correct me if im wrong, but dont these tunes get over-ridden if the dealer does any software updates to the ECU?
That's the problem with software tunes. But they are generally thought of as a better and more comprehensive tune. You aren't simply manipulatings sensor signals as you do on a piggyback tune. The tuner can actually alter software maps and create a more complete tune.

That being said, last gen piggybacks are far more advanced than early gen that only altered fuel pressure sensor, or turbo boost, output to the DME...
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      06-02-2015, 10:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carzaddict View Post
correct me if im wrong, but dont these tunes get over-ridden if the dealer does any software updates to the ECU?
Not sure how these vendors do it, but in the VW/Audi side all you have to do is go back to your Tuner and they will re-flash the tune program if the dealer over-writes it. This is free from the Tune manufacturer, but the shop usually charges basic labor time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmeroem View Post
The only downside to Fxx re-flashes at this moment is that they have to be bench flashed. OP made a mistake saying that this is OBD flash while it is not so. To this moment no one can do Fxx over OBD, tho it will be possible in a year or two.
The benefit to a piggyback is the ability to remove it from the car when taking it in to the dealer to try to avoid unnecessary warranty denial issues. With an OBD flash you also have the choice to return to the Tuner and have them remove it before dealer visits. While it may still be possible to detect a previous tune this way, it is easier and more likely to stay hidden than an ECU that needs bench flashing.

There are always many considerations when going down this path. A true software tune is going to usually net more accurate power gains and be more secure as it's not "tricking" the factory software. However, some times settling for less power is necessary.

OBD flashing will change that conversation heavily.
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      08-22-2015, 10:53 AM   #5
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That is actually a misconception. You can take a properly flashed Fxx car to dealer and they will never know the car was flashed, unless power train warranty claim comes up. Dealer can not read out tunes from customers' and see if the car was tuned, but instead they use a "Blackbox" data called FASTA. FASTA data is stored in pretty much every module and consists of the key engine and trans parameters' max values. It records the max rpm, boost, iq, etc on ever module on the car, and that is something that can not be erased. If you have a true software reflash, FASTA data will know you have exceeded the 380nm of torque on the 328d for example. Same goes for Tuning boxes. Even though they trick the computer, the FASTA data still sees real picture. Tuners can argue saying that really expensive tuning boxes can trick computer enough and never show up on FASTA. Even tho in theory it is possible to trick every sensor on n47 to produce more torque while reporting original diagnostic data, you can't trick the simple fact that engine is still producing more torque (transmission FASTA data will pick it up) and the vehicle is quicker (faster data has ability to determine theoretical torque every time you accelerate)

So in the end of the day, warranty is void anytime you tune or use tuning boxes. The question comes in with what is safer and easier. With tuning boxes, you have to phisically splice it into your car in few areas and remove it every time the car goes to dealer. If your car has an issue on a side of freeway and you need a tow to dealership, you will be stuck sitting there trying to remove your tuning box. Also you are running a higher risk of engine damage due to the fact that your is is actually "tricked" and not optimized for the requested torque.
On other hand, if your car is properly software tuned (reflashed), you never have to worry about that. You can bring the car to dealership and request no software updates to be performed. If dealer does actually update your car, you just temporarily loose your tune until a tuning company reflashed your car again.
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      09-02-2015, 12:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmeroem View Post
That is actually a misconception. You can take a properly flashed Fxx car to dealer and they will never know the car was flashed, unless power train warranty claim comes up. Dealer can not read out tunes from customers' and see if the car was tuned, but instead they use a "Blackbox" data called FASTA.
Some good info there.

Granted I am not as versed in the BMW world, but I know in the VW/Audi's the dealer CAN tell when a car is tuned, the computer runs a checksum against the stored ECU data and CAN tell when it has been modified. there is also a flash counter to tell how many times it has been changed (so simply flashing back to stock can still get you flagged).

The FASTA data is not as commonly known and available. Not even sure if the dealer can scope in on that, I think it has to be pulled by a factory rep as far as I know. So while it is there, short of a catastrophic engine or turbo failure it's not a guarantee that it will get pulled.

Wonder how long before someone figures out how to wipe and restore the FASTA data LOL

However, it is good advice that I often give is that no matter what you think you can do to avoid warranty issues, you should assume that you will be denied once you do anything that way you are not expecting coverage. Sure, you may have no issues, but better to make the decision with the assumption you will and not be surprised. You can fall back on Magnusson-Moss (which will have vastly different weight depending on what was done to the car LOL), but it's still you fighting them. They have to prove it, but you have to MAKE them prove it by going the legal route.
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