[e36jakeo]

This is the question that has been stirring around in my mind ever since I got my 335i and have read about the M3: Do I take my 335i (V2 Procede) and do what it takes to make it "track worthy" or do you just get the M3?

To make the 335i track worthy I will need to get the following:

LSD ($4500 installed and shipped due to the whole welded diff issue)
Lighter and wider wheels with better tires ($4K)
Bigger oil cooler (even non-Dinan solution will run about $1K incl fabrication and install)
Intake (cheap)
Exhaust (so you can actually hear what the engine is doing through a helmet) - $1500
Suspension ($2-3K installed).
Tune $1500 (already have it).

Hopefully with race pads the brakes will be up to the task. So for $15K you bring it to a point where it should be at least as fast around a track as the new V8 M3.

The M3, out of the box with the 7-speed DCT tranny and adjustable suspension will be VERY quick around a race circuit and will have a warranty. However, with these options it will probably cost almost $70K - about $10K more than the 335i that will make a bit more HP and a LOT more torque and may beat it at the track.

However, the resale value of the M3 will be much better than a 335i with mods, so the cost of ownership could wind up about even. Plus the M3 was tested a lot more at the track and may be able to withstand its abuse more.

So to those who plan on tracking their cars, which way would you go?

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

The M3, out of the box with the 7-speed DCT tranny and adjustable suspension will be VERY quick around a race circuit and will have a warranty. However, with these options it will probably cost almost $70K - about $10K more than the 335i that will make a bit more HP and a LOT more torque and may beat it at the track.

My dealer says most M3's will be pricing out at $75K, and several spots that people signed up for have been sold for $2-$5K to just have the opportunity to buy one. I'm sure there are people who will get one early for less than $70K, but that won't be the norm.

My E92 335i is more car than I need now stock. Unfortunately, the overheating issue is there.

If I HAD to have a BMW to race on the track, and I could only pick between these two... I'd take the M3 even factoring in the mods to the 335i. Too many variables on a car that will be warranty-less should something go very wrong.

I know it's off topic, but why not get a 335i and a dedicated track car for $25K?

[bmwzimmer]

Get a 135i if you like to track your car. A modded one will run rings around the 3ers.

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

My dealer says most M3's will be pricing out at $75K, and several spots that people signed up for have been sold for $2-$5K to just have the opportunity to buy one. I'm sure there are people who will get one early for less than $70K, but that won't be the norm.

My E92 335i is more car than I need now stock. Unfortunately, the overheating issue is there.

If I HAD to have a BMW to race on the track, and I could only pick between these two... I'd take the M3 even factoring in the mods to the 335i. Too many variables on a car that will be warranty-less should something go very wrong.

I know it's off topic, but why not get a 335i and a dedicated track car for $25K?

Yes, the early M3s will go for a pretty penny, but I would wait and either get a slightly used one of one for sticker price or less.

I actually have a dedicated track car (an E36 M3), but who is ever satisfied with what they have ?

My long-range plan would be to use the E36 until it dies (hopefully a long time from now) and then perhaps turn the E92 into a more dedicated track machine.

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

Get a 135i if you like to track your car. A modded one will run rings around the 3ers.

Did you have to complicate matters even more by asking that question?!

My other scenario (depending a bit on M3's pricing) is selling the 335i and getting a 1er so I have the best starting point for the next track machine. The 1 will we lighter (by >200 lbs), smaller, shorter wheelbase, quicker, and comes standard will bitchin' 6-piston brakes!

Oh, yeah, and cheaper

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

Get a 135i if you like to track your car. A modded one will run rings around the 3ers.

Get a 135i, spend about 2-3K on a tune (piggyback or reflash) and rear sway bar and away you go.

[Nikolas]

If cost was not a consideration it would be the M3 no question. It is designed from the ground up as a track car not a daily driver like the n54 equipped cars.

[L8Apex]

Unless you are willing to scrap some weight on the hefty 335i, I would say an e36 M3 with a euro 3.2l will be a much better track toy. (If you want to stay with BMW)

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

This is the question that has been stirring around in my mind ever since I got my 335i and have read about the M3: Do I take my 335i (V2 Procede) and do what it takes to make it "track worthy" or do you just get the M3?

To make the 335i track worthy I will need to get the following:

LSD ($4500 installed and shipped due to the whole welded diff issue)
Lighter and wider wheels with better tires ($4K)
Bigger oil cooler (even non-Dinan solution will run about $1K incl fabrication and install)
Intake (cheap)
Exhaust (so you can actually hear what the engine is doing through a helmet) - $1500
Suspension ($2-3K installed).
Tune $1500 (already have it).

Hopefully with race pads the brakes will be up to the task. So for $15K you bring it to a point where it should be at least as fast around a track as the new V8 M3.

First off, I don't think you need all that stuff to make the car "track worthy".
It's pretty impressive stock on the track already.

$4k in lighter wheels and tires???
Wow, I don't think you need to spend that much.
Get a decent set of lighter weight 18" rims and tires.
Wheels shouldn't cost you more than $200 each and tires $700-1500 depending on how good of tires you want.
But I'd say $2500 max, not $4K

Next, if you have a post March built 335i, it has the electronic LSD in it. True, not a real LSD, but it works pretty good.
It's MUCH better than having a pre March built 335i where you don't have either and the inside tires spins WAY too easily out of any corner with DSC turned off.

Talk to Walked U about the larger oil cooler, he's got one.

Intake, again, don't think you need it for track duty.
I'd just get a good drop in to aid a bit in air flow.

Exhaust. Definitely don't need it to take a car on the track.
If all you want is a bit more sound, get aftermarket mufflers.
They'd only be a couple hundred bucks and give you a louder sound.
Or the Borla 2nd Catback exhaust is like $1100 installed, sounds great and gives about 10-12 hp and reduces weight by about 25-30 lbs.

Suspension. Again, don't NEED it, but yes, I'd go with those KDW or whatever they are called. Apparently they are pretty darn good. They cost like $800 I think.

Tune. Yes, $1500 for v2 PROcede.

Brakes. Get a set of Axxis or Centric race pads and put on stainless steel lines and race fluid. They'll do great and should hold up well.

The only other thing is if you run in hot weather, along with the larger oil cooler, get a larger FMIC. Be about another $1000.


So...
$1500 PROcede v2
$1500-2500 wheels/tires
$60 drop in air filter
$800-1200 suspension
$500 race pads, stainless steel lines, race brake fluid.

That's
$4300-$5700
to have a very nicely set up 335i that will give the new e92 M3 all it can handle on the track.
Just run your settings a bit on the conservative side and run at least 93+ Octane race gas mix to keep things in check.

Now, if you absolutely need the larger engine oil cooler and FMIC, you can add $1800-2000 to that, but that's still
$6100-7700

And then you'd be sure to have more power for longer without the possibility of heat soak. And would probably allow you to bring up your power settings a bit.

I think a professional driver would have a tough time doing much better in a e92 M3 than that 335i.
Add the $1100 Borla and I think the 335i will set better track times than the stock e92 M3

You'd be $52-55K into that 335i then (depending on options).

But I agree, you'll pay more for the e92 M3 out of the box, but the resale value of it will be greater than a modded 335i. But you can always return the 335i back to stock and sell most of the parts at 50% of the original cost

[O-cha]

M3 period.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

Get a 135i if you like to track your car. A modded one will run rings around the 3ers.

I wouldn't say that just yet.
From speaking directly to high level BMW guys who've driven both on many occasions they feel the 335i Coupe is more planted and less "soft".
The 135i rolls more (it's taller).
Has a shorter wheelbase which doesn't help in handling.

True the 135i is lighter, but it has other things that might not make it much (if any) faster around a track than a 335i Coupe.

And because it's not as aerodynamic as the 335i Coupe, into triple digit speeds, it doesn't accelerate any faster than the 335i Coupe either, actually it accelerates a bit slower according to BMW.
Ironically, BMW lists the 0-60 of the 135i as .2 seconds faster than the 335i Coupe...
But the 0-124 mph time is only .1 second faster.
That means the 335i Coupe is actually reeling in the 135i as speeds climb, closing the gap the 135i made due to it's lighter weight off the line. It's the aerodynamics hurting the 135i there.
I'd bet the 335i Coupe is faster up to 150 mph, is probably more stable at those speeds too, being lower and more aerodynamic.

It'll be interesting to see if a magazine or show like "Top Gear" tests the 135i side by side with a 335i Coupe on the same track to see what it does.
And hopefully they'll do 0-150 acceleration tests too.

I think they'll be VERY close all all said and done.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I wouldn't say that just yet.
From speaking directly to high level BMW guys who've driven both on many occasions.
The 135i rolls more (it's taller).
Has a shorter wheelbase which doesn't help in handling.

True it is lighter, but it has other things that might not make it much (if any) faster around a track than a 335i Coupe.

Yea from the reviews so far the 135 suspension is far far from the sport tuned suspension everyone rumored. I think car and driver called it a grocery getter suspension.

[LOLrance]

At the end of the day, all these new BMW's are too heavy for me. Driving my e92 around the track, i felt like it was a fat pig and i was dragging the weight around every corner.

If your looking for a track car, i rather just get a used e36 m3.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3

At the end of the day, all these new BMW's are too heavy for me. Driving my e92 around the track, i felt like it was a fat pig and i was dragging the weight around every corner.

If your looking for a track car, i rather just get a used e36 m3.

I agree, or fined one of those Supercharged (or was it turbocharged) Mazda Miatas from 2-3 years ago.

I think it was 170 hp.
With a tune it would be over 200 hp easy.
With some weight removal and some minor other mods, that car would be an absolute BLAST at a track.

[E90ice]

If you are planing on tracking your car often, I would go with the M3.

But if you want a fast all-around car and track once in a while...and maybe save some money...get the 335.

my 0.02 cents

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

Get a 135i if you like to track your car. A modded one will run rings around the 3ers.

Sure it will.

[hl0m4n]

mang m3>335i any day, even the e46 m3, for me track or not. but if you seriously want to have a more raw and aggressive track experience def the m3 without a question. out of the box it is an amazing performer.

having the manual or the GODLIKE () 7 speed dct will offer you one hell of a track experience. let alone the raw power of a n/a going through the gears and the rasp of the exhaust . let alone the mods for this car in the future.

get a test drive in the current e46 m3, smg or manual. the drive is simply DRASTICALLY different then in a 335i. handling, the feel of the car, its simply .

and yes i still got the 335i over my LOVE m3. dealer had a 06 black coupe and cinamon int with cold, sport, navi, premium, and harmon cardon with 1200 miles. i turned it down ordered a 335i and waited 6 weeks just b/c i knew that after this car there will be so many options. M3, GT-R, new lotus, buy a regular 3 series and an ariel atom, used 996

[B'CahiLL-The Boss]

You can't compare many cars to the handling of an ///M car! IMO 335 is a step down from an M3. Besides the Biturbo and BMW custom options on build allocation like my car, the handling on stock suspension rides rough / there is over-steer... Was thinking about coilovers, KW's or Tein's if those are available... I'm sure the 335 would need sways and struts if I were to go to that extent... =)

335 does have the potential to get the 2008 M3 in a straight line though, however 2008 M3 traps 113 mph stock

[forza1976]

M3

[hotrod182]

Well, in many tests, the C63 AMG will run away from the M3 or 335i in acceleration. The C63 has been clocked to run in the high 3's 0-60mph, and around 115mph in the 1/4! But all that power, and it can't turn a faster lap time than the M3. BMW has invested millions into making the M3 balanced at the track. If will be hard to modify a 335i to be as balanced on the track ,and yet as civilized on the street. I personally think the 335i will have overheating issues in heavy track usage. There is so much heat generated with the twin turbo setup. My friend races his GT3 CUP (about $200,000), he said the Porsche Turbos would never survive the rigors of racing like the NA cars.

[L8Apex]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

My friend races his GT3 CUP (about $200,000), he said the Porsche Turbos would never survive the rigors of racing like the NA cars.

A wise man once told me racing Porsches is a very expensive way to go slow. (He drives a Radical SR3).

On another note there are plenty of Pcar turbos that run circles around a GT3 Cup they just don't have a class for them in the ALMS or SCCA except for the POC (tribute to LeMans 4hr enduro)

[e.n335]

M3