BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-27-2014, 02:53 PM   #1
ES_TRADER
Colonel
343
Rep
2,928
Posts

Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [10.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [8.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [10.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
Question Adaptive Suspension...meant for comfort?

i know this topic has been beaten to death and there are several threads which ive already read on this issue but those guys are far too smart and technical for me. i dont really care how the system works and getting ready to place the order soon. ive test driven a non AS car but not one with it. hard to find dealers with both on the ground and dont want to do the whole song and dance.

i just want to know one simple thing...does this option give me a harsher and more jarring ride than the non AS option?

i drive an e92 zcp with the edc and everytime i start the car i make sure to set it to the sport setting. i feel the bumps and the teeth chattering harshness because i leave it on 100% of the time. i cant stand comfort mode. the harsher the more jarring the ride, the better for me.

would i be better off getting non AS or AS and pushing the Sport+ button everyday?
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 02:55 PM   #2
ridin135
Colonel
131
Rep
2,408
Posts

Drives: Depends on the day
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Greenville

iTrader: (7)

It gets a little bit more rigid but I think it would be hard to notice the difference even driving the two back to back.
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 02:57 PM   #3
onatuesday
Captain
157
Rep
965
Posts

Drives: Hyundai
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

my understanding is that the passive is somewhere between sport and sport plus. So the delta between passive and adaptive if you never use "comfort" mode will be very small.

If you get the 18s like I did then the "sport" setting is both stiff AND comfortable. It feels perfect.
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 03:03 PM   #4
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

As I understand the F80's adaptive is adaptive in all modes while E9X was not adaptive in Sport+. This should mean that the F8x adaptive smooths the ride in all modes and in Sport+ could feel both stiffer and softer than the passive depending on the road condition.

In the end you'll need someone like Karusell who has pushed both suspensions on track to know for sure. Personally I love the passive suspension however it's not super stiff and jarring but taut, it was more than enough compliant for everything German, Austrian, Swiss and Italian roads throw at it. It does feel very controlled and communicative though. Awesome suspension for the street but maybe slight soft for the track?

Last edited by solstice; 08-27-2014 at 03:09 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 04:39 PM   #5
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
As I understand the F80's adaptive is adaptive in all modes while E9X was not adaptive in Sport+. This should mean that the F8x adaptive smooths the ride in all modes and in Sport+ could feel both stiffer and softer than the passive depending on the road condition.

In the end you'll need someone like Karusell who has pushed both suspensions on track to know for sure. Personally I love the passive suspension however it's not super stiff and jarring but taut, it was more than enough compliant for everything German, Austrian, Swiss and Italian roads throw at it. It does feel very controlled and communicative though. Awesome suspension for the street but maybe slight soft for the track?
ZCP E92 models were adaptive in Sport +
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 05:21 PM   #6
minus9
Grand Poobah
4
Rep
186
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Adaptive does not "smooth" the ride. Yes, there are three settings you can choose for the damping, but that's not the real thing happening here.

Adaptive suspension, as you should guess from the name, adapts constantly. Each axle is evaluated many times per second to determine settings based upon your choice of the three modes as well as what each tire is encountering on the road.

With the great chassis on this car the cornering is so flat it's amazing to find this side of a track-specific car. Whether on the road or on the track the performance was fantastic. I got off the Nurburgring with a big smile amazed at just how planted it was.
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 05:41 PM   #7
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by minus9 View Post
Adaptive does not "smooth" the ride. Yes, there are three settings you can choose for the damping, but that's not the real thing happening here.

Adaptive suspension, as you should guess from the name, adapts constantly. Each axle is evaluated many times per second to determine settings based upon your choice of the three modes as well as what each tire is encountering on the road.

With the great chassis on this car the cornering is so flat it's amazing to find this side of a track-specific car. Whether on the road or on the track the performance was fantastic. I got off the Nurburgring with a big smile amazed at just how planted it was.
I had adaptive suspension on my F10 and passive on my E60. Both had ARS. The F10 was very smooth ( which I strongly disliked ) in all modes compared to the E60. With ARS disabled the F10 rolled like a ship on open seas. So in my experience BMW adaptive does smooth the ride while doing little for roll stabilization ( except the added stiffness from the mode ). The beefy roll bars on the F8X and the springs are mainly to be attributed to the flat cornering not the dampers ( again the mode adds stiffness but not so much the adaptive part ). Adaptive's biggest advantage is likely that it does make the car more planted and contributes to more grip and higher speeds on the track by smoothing out irregularities better than the passive dampers and their job is not so much increased roll stabilization. I.e they are not really a substitution for roll bars.

Maybe it's different for the F8X I don't know but what I do know is that I don't like the feel of adaptive dampers and I mourn the day it will be our only choice. That day will come

Last edited by solstice; 08-27-2014 at 07:04 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 06:38 PM   #8
VinnieDeutsch
Enlisted Member
15
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: E92 335i, F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

pretty sure I saw a video where one of the M engineers explained it..might look for that
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 10:24 PM   #9
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

So . . . you just want the car to ride like shit? Why wouldn't you want a comfortable ride AND to minimize body roll, bounce, and float?
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 10:31 PM   #10
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I had adaptive suspension on my F10 and passive on my E60. Both had ARS. The F10 was very smooth ( which I strongly disliked ) in all modes compared to the E60. With ARS disabled the F10 rolled like a ship on open seas. So in my experience BMW adaptive does smooth the ride while doing little for roll stabilization ( except the added stiffness from the mode ). The beefy roll bars on the F8X and the springs are mainly to be attributed to the flat cornering not the dampers ( again the mode adds stiffness but not so much the adaptive part ). Adaptive's biggest advantage is likely that it does make the car more planted and contributes to more grip and higher speeds on the track by smoothing out irregularities better than the passive dampers and their job is not so much increased roll stabilization. I.e they are not really a substitution for roll bars.

Maybe it's different for the F8X I don't know but what I do know is that I don't like the feel of adaptive dampers and I mourn the day it will be our only choice. That day will come
You aren't really making much sense here. Adaptive dampers contribute a lot to controlling roll motion. They react to steering wheel inputs and lateral acceleration and adjust the damping appropriately to reduce body roll to the level that the engineers deem appropriate. Sport+ allows minimal roll, Sport, a bit more, and comfort a bit more.

Dampers are NEVER a substitute for a roll bar (stabar) on a production car. Stabars involve a trade off between ride and handling just like everything else, and having ARS allows the engineers to have the best of both worlds with their stabar stiffness as well as the shocks.
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 10:33 PM   #11
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
You aren't really making much sense here. Adaptive dampers contribute a lot to controlling roll motion. They react to steering wheel inputs and lateral acceleration and adjust the damping appropriately to reduce body roll to the level that the engineers deem appropriate. Sport+ allows minimal roll, Sport, a bit more, and comfort a bit more.

Dampers are NEVER a substitute for a roll bar (stabar) on a production car. Stabars involve a trade off between ride and handling just like everything else, and having ARS allows the engineers to have the best of both worlds with their stabar stiffness as well as the shocks.
Just my real world practical observations. The theory I leave to you
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 10:41 PM   #12
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Just my real world practical observations. The theory I leave to you
I get what you're saying, just trying to clear it up a bit.
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 10:46 PM   #13
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I get what you're saying, just trying to clear it up a bit.
That's cool. I love ARS/PDCC in larger cars btw but I don't like adaptive dampers wether they are called PASM or M-adaptive. I prefer to have the extra predictability and communcation from the passive dampers well knowing that the trade-off is that the car is slightly easier to upset with loss of grip as a result. And I don't like any hint of smooth ride in my sports sedan unless the road is smooth.
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2014, 10:51 PM   #14
ES_TRADER
Colonel
343
Rep
2,928
Posts

Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [10.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [8.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [10.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20
So . . . you just want the car to ride like shit? Why wouldn't you want a comfortable ride AND to minimize body roll, bounce, and float?
I don't know, I just prefer a harsher stiffer ride. I like my ride the way I like my mattress, rock hard.

Drove the e92 in sport setting 100% of the time and I thoroughly enjoy feeling the road and the bumps. Made the car feel different than any other car I drove. So basically if it was going to go soft with this option, I'm not going to like it.

I just want harsh everyday driving
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2014, 12:08 PM   #15
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,854
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

I love the Adaptive suspension. IMO even harsher in a way than passive when in sport+ -- remember its tuning is for performance, not luxury.

You might want to go aftermarket if you want a brick.
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2014, 12:22 PM   #16
BhamDavid
First Lieutenant
209
Rep
353
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Birmingham, AL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER View Post
I just want harsh everyday driving
Are you also into leather, whips and chains?
Appreciate 0
      08-29-2014, 12:31 AM   #17
ES_TRADER
Colonel
343
Rep
2,928
Posts

Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [10.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [8.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [10.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I love the Adaptive suspension. IMO even harsher in a way than passive when in sport+ -- remember its tuning is for performance, not luxury.

You might want to go aftermarket if you want a brick.
As long as it's harsher than passive in a setting, I'm ok with pushing that setting everyday.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST