Pandora Car Alarm System
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-20-2014, 09:56 PM   #1
Paul-Bracq-BMW
Moderator
Paul-Bracq-BMW's Avatar
Australia
4087
Rep
1,973
Posts

Drives: 1981 323i, sports M5, LSD
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Autocar compares M4, M235i and Alpina B4

Guess what car wins! Let the debates begin!
Attached Images
        
__________________
1981 323i, 143 Kashmir-Metallic, 0094 Pergament, Sports M5, LSD.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 10:23 PM   #2
Powerslide
Colonel
United_States
1095
Rep
2,287
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago Illinois USA

iTrader: (0)

Very interesting and well-written article. The last page sums it up best - correct answer is subjective to each individual buyer. For me, I'd gladly trade the extra refinement and smoothness of the Alpina (very, very nice car with highly impressive performance capabilities) for the extra poise, performance and more aggressive styling of the M3/M4.

That particular author placed the M4 last, but he did so by placing more weight on the refinement category than I would, and more weight on the value proposition than I would (sure, the M235i offers more performance per dollar, but if the M3/M4 is something that you can or are willing to pay for, why wouldn't you?

A C7 Corvette or Z28 Camaro offer more performance per dollar than a Ferrari 458 - no doubt. However, if I was able to afford a Ferrari 458 (which I clearly cannot, otherwise I'd have one) - there is no way I would pick the C7 or Z28 over the 458...

Again though, that just my own subjective opinion...
Appreciate 3
      08-20-2014, 10:52 PM   #3
Mandi90TT
Colonel
United_States
2712
Rep
2,371
Posts

Drives: BSM 6MT M4 F82
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

It's funny; in the piocture on page 42, either the driver is a really big guy with reallybig hands, or the steering wheel has shrunk. Or maybe it's just the photo angle, but it really looks liek the steering wheel is very small in the picture.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 11:04 PM   #4
haynstyleM2
Major
haynstyleM2's Avatar
354
Rep
1,199
Posts

Drives: '24 M2
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (0)

Great write up. Thanks for the info.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 11:09 PM   #5
Hoopumpers
Captain
Hoopumpers's Avatar
113
Rep
672
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
73 911 RSR  [0.00]
04 996 Cup  [0.00]
06 997 Cup  [0.00]
12 Boxster Spyder ( ...  [0.00]
15 Sierra HD Denali  [0.00]
16 GT3RS  [0.00]
17 Radical SR3  [0.00]
18 Model X  [0.00]
18 GT350R  [0.00]
19 M2 Comp  [0.00]
Well said Powerslide
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 11:15 PM   #6
gtr
Lieutenant
gtr's Avatar
United_States
235
Rep
576
Posts

Drives: 2020 CTR
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

I quite don't understand his reasoning. I feel if he compares the Cayman, Cayman S and Cayman GTS he would probably rank the base Cayman as #1 for the better ride and 83% of the performance for almost 50% cheaper than the GTS? If someone cannot or can barely afford those cars this article and logic makes sense but for someone who is shopping for a $100,000 Porsche would they really consider a base model because it the best value for dollar?

Comparing the M235 vs M4 lets say the handling is on par. Why would you want the smaller, weaker mini version if you can get the full sized model? You are paying more for the size and power. But if the M235 has better handling and handing feel that is a different story.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 11:28 PM   #7
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Andrew Frankel writes regular road and race car reviews for Motorsport magazine and is often entrusted by manufacturers or collectors with drives in some of the rarest and most iconic race cars on the planet, e.g. Rothmans Le Mans Porsche 962.

The comparo above correlates to his reviews of the three cars, each reviewed separately in Motorsport. He was less than enamoured (though technically impressed) with the M4, and highly impressed in all ways with the 235, especially when 'bang for buck' is taken into consideration.

Just some useless background info
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 11:37 PM   #8
VinnieDeutsch
Enlisted Member
15
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: E92 335i, F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Having driven the M235i and the M4...my opinion is that these guys are on crack. The M4, to me, is indeed comically faster, the chassis much much better, and the ride is great to me. Everything about it is better. Of course I've never driven a B4 so whatever, but to me the Alpinas are just a different type of car. My take on them is that they are more luxury focused with better than base car performance, not exactly track monsters. But, I could be wrong..maybe someone with some Alpina experience can shed some light on that one.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2014, 11:50 PM   #9
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
497
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Alpina Out-M'ing ///M with better chassis engineers? Maybe Clarkson is right about the B-team. what is the world coming to???
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 07:07 AM   #10
myzmak
Advocatus Douchebagus. Sex Marxist.
myzmak's Avatar
Canada
2415
Rep
3,415
Posts

Drives: Lucy.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F80 M3  [10.00]
2013 MB E350 Wagon  [10.00]
Other than Sutcliffe (also Autocar) I believe this is the first review to find problems with M4 at the limits. Interesting. Most have said just the opposite......that the F8X shines most there.
Appreciate 1
      08-21-2014, 07:39 AM   #11
serieD
Second Lieutenant
United_States
14
Rep
265
Posts

Drives: 1199 Panigale S
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Ether

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post

That particular author placed the M4 last, but he did so by placing more weight on the refinement category than I would, and more weight on the value proposition than I would (sure, the M235i offers more performance per dollar, but if the M3/M4 is something that you can or are willing to pay for, why wouldn't you?

A C7 Corvette or Z28 Camaro offer more performance per dollar than a Ferrari 458 - no doubt. However, if I was able to afford a Ferrari 458 (which I clearly cannot, otherwise I'd have one) - there is no way I would pick the C7 or Z28 over the 458...

Again though, that just my own subjective opinion...
Totally agree, well spoken as well!
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 07:42 AM   #12
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Alpina Out-M'ing ///M with better chassis engineers? Maybe Clarkson is right about the B-team. what is the world coming to???
imo both comments above are taken out of context

they specifically said that in "at the limit" the alpina was easier to drive. not that the chassis is better, not that its faster, or any of that. this doesn't surprise me as its a lot of power through the rear wheels....

as far as Clarkson, IMO you misinterpreted that as many others said.

as for the article, to each their own. there is nothing that appeals to me about the alpina at all (looks, auto only, soft, luxury vs sport interior) but a lot that appeals to me about the m3/4, even with its downsides of being a little loud, potentially tricky to drive and less focused on comfort. but that's personal preference

the m2 has a lot of potential, I think that's the one thing that is clear from this article. take the tech that has allowed the m3 to smash the other two in performance in this test and put it in the smaller and lighter m2? might be pretty special.......

Last edited by Black Gold; 08-21-2014 at 08:27 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 08:20 AM   #13
KASM3
Lieutenant
160
Rep
466
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

I agree with the cost factor in the article and I hope more people buy the Alpina and m235. That will make my M4 more exclusive and add some more interest on the track and at car shows. I love the animalistic less composed nature of the M4 on the limit and harsher ride. (isn't this what we loved about the e46?). This is suppose to be a DD and track car. The limit character of this car is what you should want to learn to control at HPDE weekends. It's called car control and driving! I don't want my car doing everything for me all the time and massaging my behind at the same time. I love comparisons but the bottom line is does your purchase meet your individual needs. There is always a faster, more sophisticated and better looking car out there but for my money, M4 ticks all my boxes for now and possibly next 5-10 years. My .02
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 08:27 AM   #14
Damasconian
Lieutenant Colonel
Damasconian's Avatar
742
Rep
1,555
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Very interesting and well-written article. The last page sums it up best - correct answer is subjective to each individual buyer. For me, I'd gladly trade the extra refinement and smoothness of the Alpina (very, very nice car with highly impressive performance capabilities) for the extra poise, performance and more aggressive styling of the M3/M4.

That particular author placed the M4 last, but he did so by placing more weight on the refinement category than I would, and more weight on the value proposition than I would (sure, the M235i offers more performance per dollar, but if the M3/M4 is something that you can or are willing to pay for, why wouldn't you?

A C7 Corvette or Z28 Camaro offer more performance per dollar than a Ferrari 458 - no doubt. However, if I was able to afford a Ferrari 458 (which I clearly cannot, otherwise I'd have one) - there is no way I would pick the C7 or Z28 over the 458...

Again though, that just my own subjective opinion...
Couldnt have put it better myself. No wrong answer here. Great comparison with the vette and Ferrari.
__________________
2015 M4 6-MT
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 09:44 AM   #15
JoeFromPA
Colonel
1791
Rep
2,995
Posts

Drives: '15 AW M3 6MT Stripper
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SE PA

iTrader: (0)

So an observation here...

He liked to put more weight on cars that are clearly "sportier" or more into "refinement".

Oftentimes, a manual transmission car will FEEL sportier and get better scored as a result. Similarly, an automatic transmission'd car (which the DCT is, albeit with the ability to self-select lightning fast shifts), will have more "refinement" to the driver.

Perhaps the M4 with DCT simply didn't push itself enough into either the sportier category NOR the refinement category as the other two cars, with appropriate transmissions for their purposes, did?
__________________
AW/Carbonstructure 6MT 2015 M3 picked up 8/22/2014. Stripper except for adaptive suspension. Weighed at 3,450 pounds with 1/4 fuel. 70,000 miles as of February 2020.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 10:37 AM   #16
jc05e46m3
Brigadier General
jc05e46m3's Avatar
United_States
844
Rep
3,249
Posts

Drives: '21 F90 M5 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Everywhere.

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Very interesting and well-written article. The last page sums it up best - correct answer is subjective to each individual buyer. For me, I'd gladly trade the extra refinement and smoothness of the Alpina (very, very nice car with highly impressive performance capabilities) for the extra poise, performance and more aggressive styling of the M3/M4.

That particular author placed the M4 last, but he did so by placing more weight on the refinement category than I would, and more weight on the value proposition than I would (sure, the M235i offers more performance per dollar, but if the M3/M4 is something that you can or are willing to pay for, why wouldn't you?

A C7 Corvette or Z28 Camaro offer more performance per dollar than a Ferrari 458 - no doubt. However, if I was able to afford a Ferrari 458 (which I clearly cannot, otherwise I'd have one) - there is no way I would pick the C7 or Z28 over the 458...

Again though, that just my own subjective opinion...
__________________
'21 /// M5 Comp - Frozen Brilliant White/Black
'18 Porsche GT3 Carrara White/Black/Red - Sold
'18 /// M3 - Individual Imola/Black - Sold
'15 /// M4 - YMB/SO - Sold
'12 E92 ///M3 ZCP - AW/FR - Sold
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 11:20 AM   #17
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7434
Rep
12,293
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

It should be noted that the delta in price between the M235i vs M4 is the absolutely worst case scenario.

25000 Sterling Pounds = $40000

If you compared a loaded M235i with a loaded M4 (minus CCB, not that many people will order this option anyway), it's more like a delta of $26000 ish.

Still a huge sum of money of course, but it's more "reasonable" than $40k.
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 11:28 AM   #18
IMrMark
Captain
IMrMark's Avatar
United_States
75
Rep
991
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M4
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Fairfax, VA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [9.66]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Very interesting and well-written article. The last page sums it up best - correct answer is subjective to each individual buyer. For me, I'd gladly trade the extra refinement and smoothness of the Alpina (very, very nice car with highly impressive performance capabilities) for the extra poise, performance and more aggressive styling of the M3/M4.

That particular author placed the M4 last, but he did so by placing more weight on the refinement category than I would, and more weight on the value proposition than I would (sure, the M235i offers more performance per dollar, but if the M3/M4 is something that you can or are willing to pay for, why wouldn't you?

A C7 Corvette or Z28 Camaro offer more performance per dollar than a Ferrari 458 - no doubt. However, if I was able to afford a Ferrari 458 (which I clearly cannot, otherwise I'd have one) - there is no way I would pick the C7 or Z28 over the 458...

Again though, that just my own subjective opinion...
Amen

And echoing what someone else said... there are so few reviews that say the M4 is hard to control at the top end. I understand that the reviewer is well respected and does this a lot - but I wonder why so many praise the handling, but every so often you get a weird outlier. Personal preference I suppose, but maybe comfort zone as well? You'd think someone who does as much as this Author would have a comfort zone the size of... well. you know.

I also don't like it was not apples to apples, 6MT all around, but realize that with the Alpina that isn't possible.

Great read though overall!
__________________
2015 ///M4 F82
[ Mineral Grey | SO Ext | 19" Black | 6MT | CFRP Interior | LED | Executive | Side/Top Cameras | Adaptive M Suspension | HK Surround ]
:: will code locally for rum, beer, or chicken; PM as desired ::
Instagram: IMrMark
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 11:44 AM   #19
Damasconian
Lieutenant Colonel
Damasconian's Avatar
742
Rep
1,555
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

The writer keeps referring to the Alpina as having a nicer interior. What did they do other than replace the wheel? The M4 tested didn't have the full leather package, neither did the Alpina. Curious to see what I missed when it comes to Alpina improvements to the interior.

On another note, this car is close to 100K in the UK. Not too far from that in Germany. God Bless the USA and our 65-80K price points.
__________________
2015 M4 6-MT
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 11:52 AM   #20
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
10051
Rep
8,566
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
It should be noted that the delta in price between the M235i vs M4 is the absolutely worst case scenario.

25000 Sterling Pounds = $40000

If you compared a loaded M235i with a loaded M4 (minus CCB, not that many people will order this option anyway), it's more like a delta of $26000 ish.

Still a huge sum of money of course, but it's more "reasonable" than $40k.
You can cut that delta in half if you option the M235i and get a base w few options m3.
__________________
2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 12:04 PM   #21
Dalko43
Captain
172
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 2011 Toyota 4Runner Trail
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Not knowing this writer or his driving experience, I don't know how the auto slush-box can feel just as good as the a DCT? His comments on low-speed driving I get, but people aren't spending the extra money on the DCT for extreme comfort, they are buying it for better/faster shifts.

His comments on the handling/suspension feel on the M4 vs the B4 are interesting though; I sure would like to see a video comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Damasconian View Post

On another note, this car is close to 100K in the UK. Not too far from that in Germany. God Bless the USA and our 65-80K price points.
Currency exchange rate and consumer demand is what explains the price differences.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2014, 12:09 PM   #22
Cortexiphan
Major
Cortexiphan's Avatar
2025
Rep
1,195
Posts

Drives: 24' BMW iX
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

I don't understand this kind of comparisons.
"This is 10% better but 20% more expensive" logic is kind of weird to me, because "pricing" doesn't work this way. Armani isn't 200% more functional than GAP. Lobster isn't %500 tastier than chicken. Macbook Pro isn't 100% more functional than Macbook Air. So on so forth.
NONE of the top-end expensive cars would be worth their prices if you look at it this way.
__________________
11’ E92 ///M3
15’ F82 ///M4
18’ G30 540i ///Msport
21’ G20 ///M340i

24' i20 iX xDrive50

Last edited by Cortexiphan; 08-21-2014 at 12:19 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST