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      08-04-2014, 08:40 PM   #1
xHoon
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How much Power gain from just jb4?

Hey guys I'm thinking of getting just a jb4 with EWG and ff harness on m235i running just 93 gas. What kinda of power gain do you guys reckon I get from that?
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      08-05-2014, 12:16 AM   #2
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Plenty of data out there man !! lets not reinvent the wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by xHoon View Post
Hey guys I'm thinking of getting just a jb4 with EWG and ff harness on m235i running just 93 gas. What kinda of power gain do you guys reckon I get from that?
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      08-05-2014, 08:57 AM   #3
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Why EWG harness and ff wires if you're only running 93? Waste of money. You'll only ever be on map 1.
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      08-05-2014, 11:53 AM   #4
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People are running map 2 (and sometimes 7) with 93. From an E85 mix.
Check out the EWG thread on n54tech
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      08-05-2014, 07:40 PM   #5
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I'm running Map 2 on 93 with EWG/FF harness and managed 351whp/390wtq.
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      09-07-2014, 08:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alz0rz View Post
I'm running Map 2 on 93 with EWG/FF harness and managed 351whp/390wtq.
What would it run WITHOUT the EWG/FF harnesses? Just curious.

I was under the impression you needed full bolt-ons to run anything higher than MAP1 (I.e. Intake, downpipe, exhaust)?
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      09-07-2014, 09:11 AM   #7
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OP

I have EWG car with MPE and HFC DP.

JB4 without FF / EWG harnesses.

Running 99 RON fuel I had map 6 mapped on a dyno.

I got power and curves similar stock and went from 320bhp/330lbft at crank to 380/450 at the crank.

V happy. Car runs really well and goes like a scalded cat !!!
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      09-07-2014, 04:47 PM   #8
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What happens if you don't have a down pipe and run the higher boost levels? (i.e. map 2) ?
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      09-07-2014, 06:48 PM   #9
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Sometimes as I read these posts it seems so hard to get more HP out of our 3 ltr, 93, E85mix, 99 etc. the M3/4 runs a 3 ltr and comes with 425hp....you would think we could get more and still only have to run 91/93 like they do.
I am about to jump into the mod game for the first time.....just trying to read and learn.
What is the expectation we can squeeze out of the 235 and still just roll up to the pump, no race gas, meth, mix etc

Not trying to be a tool....just thinking out loud
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      09-07-2014, 07:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehagerty View Post
Sometimes as I read these posts it seems so hard to get more HP out of our 3 ltr, 93, E85mix, 99 etc. the M3/4 runs a 3 ltr and comes with 425hp....you would think we could get more and still only have to run 91/93 like they do.
I am about to jump into the mod game for the first time.....just trying to read and learn.
What is the expectation we can squeeze out of the 235 and still just roll up to the pump, no race gas, meth, mix etc

Not trying to be a tool....just thinking out loud
The thing is it appears that BMW underrated our cars at 320hp as from what I have seen on this forum most stock dyno's come in at 290-310 whp. Meaning that the true crank hp number, once accounting for say, a 15% drivetrain loss would be more like 350 hp. What I have seen people pick-up from a JB4 with stock components has been about 30-60 whp depending on the map. So, I think the car in stock form should be good for 400-420 hp at the crank which gets it pretty much to M4 level. However, the M4 apparently is also underrated so a stock car on a good tune would be approaching but still just under M4 levels. I hate HP numbers. 1/4 mile is a better indication of how fast a car actually is. A stock car with only a tune should be able to land a 1/4 mile in the mid to low 12 second range by my calculations. The new M3 does it in 12.1 seconds according to car and driver. Compare that to other high horsepower cars and you will see that the M235i makes good use of its power.

EDIT: when I say stock components, I also mean pump gas
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      09-07-2014, 07:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehagerty View Post
Sometimes as I read these posts it seems so hard to get more HP out of our 3 ltr, 93, E85mix, 99 etc. the M3/4 runs a 3 ltr and comes with 425hp....you would think we could get more and still only have to run 91/93 like they do.
I am about to jump into the mod game for the first time.....just trying to read and learn.
What is the expectation we can squeeze out of the 235 and still just roll up to the pump, no race gas, meth, mix etc

Not trying to be a tool....just thinking out loud
The biggest limiting factor is the turbo. It's tiny. Throw whatever you want at a current N55 car, and the upper limit on the stock turbo is barely over 400 RWHP.

I don't recall the M3/4s turbo's specs, but I'll guess they are each either very slightly smaller than the N55's single turbo or roughly the same size. Companies have barely scratched the surface of tuning them and with few mods they are in the mid to upper-500 RWHP range.

Last edited by FC4; 09-07-2014 at 08:11 PM..
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      09-08-2014, 05:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darocc View Post
What happens if you don't have a down pipe and run the higher boost levels? (i.e. map 2) ?
Darocc,

Higher boost demand from turbo will increase EGT's which will be compounded going through stock DP with restrictive cat. ECU will reduce boost and or retard timing and or go into "limp mode" as a reaction to higher/too high EGT's.

Freer flowing cats/decat DP helps dissipate heat much quicker away from turbo outlet so EGT's stay within more useable limits.

PD.
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      09-08-2014, 06:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pave Dew View Post
Darocc,

Higher boost demand from turbo will increase EGT's which will be compounded going through stock DP with restrictive cat. ECU will reduce boost and or retard timing and or go into "limp mode" as a reaction to higher/too high EGT's.

Freer flowing cats/decat DP helps dissipate heat much quicker away from turbo outlet so EGT's stay within more useable limits.

PD.

Thanks that make sense PD, I guess I should pick up a DP!
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      09-08-2014, 05:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundaydriver View Post
The thing is it appears that BMW underrated our cars at 320hp as from what I have seen on this forum most stock dyno's come in at 290-310 whp. Meaning that the true crank hp number, once accounting for say, a 15% drivetrain loss would be more like 350 hp. What I have seen people pick-up from a JB4 with stock components has been about 30-60 whp depending on the map. So, I think the car in stock form should be good for 400-420 hp at the crank which gets it pretty much to M4 level. However, the M4 apparently is also underrated so a stock car on a good tune would be approaching but still just under M4 levels. I hate HP numbers. 1/4 mile is a better indication of how fast a car actually is. A stock car with only a tune should be able to land a 1/4 mile in the mid to low 12 second range by my calculations. The new M3 does it in 12.1 seconds according to car and driver. Compare that to other high horsepower cars and you will see that the M235i makes good use of its power.

EDIT: when I say stock components, I also mean pump gas
I don't think you are going to run low 12's on pump gas unless you have very favorable DA.
Best time so far in close to 3000ft DA on E30 1s 12.39.
Only MOD is JB4(and MPE) on map 7 at 17-18 psi boost.
Traps 112 mph off the highway consistently then starts to run slower after 2-3 passes.
I am looking for 11.99(then I will stop beating up on the car-hopefully still in one piece- nervous lol) and hoping to get there as weather cools and DA is reasonable.
I was trying to avoid down pipe(have a mustang with long tubes and catless-so have noisy car already) since my wife drives the car and may pass on to 16 year old daughter(detuned of course!)
After reading above post it may be harder than I though or not possible and may explain why car heatsoaks? and slows down so quickly

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      09-09-2014, 01:47 PM   #15
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Does the JB4 limit boost on 1st + 2nd gears? I can't remember where I read that but I could swear I saw it somewhere...

if YES, can that option be removed? With the x-drive version I don't think there will be traction issues for the need to limit boost on those gears?

Anyone know?
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      09-12-2014, 11:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darocc View Post
Does the JB4 limit boost on 1st + 2nd gears? I can't remember where I read that but I could swear I saw it somewhere...

if YES, can that option be removed? With the x-drive version I don't think there will be traction issues for the need to limit boost on those gears?

Anyone know?
Yes it does and yes it can easily be removed.
This option is very useful to control traction when targeting high targets at 1 and 2nd gear.
By the way you can remove it by setting max psi boost 1 and 2 to 0 (this is the default value )
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      12-09-2014, 05:07 PM   #17
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Im interested in knowing this as well.
Can u just run JB4 alone for some more overall power over stock? Or do you really need supporting mods (do, intake, chargepipe) to benefit from the tune?
Will running JB4 alone put stress on other components throughout the longevity of the engine? Like if u run the tune alone would it be a good idea to upgrade the chargepipe because it will likely break off under more than usual pressure?
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      12-09-2014, 10:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp1ke View Post
Im interested in knowing this as well.
Can u just run JB4 alone for some more overall power over stock? Or do you really need supporting mods (do, intake, chargepipe) to benefit from the tune?
Will running JB4 alone put stress on other components throughout the longevity of the engine? Like if u run the tune alone would it be a good idea to upgrade the chargepipe because it will likely break off under more than usual pressure?
You can definitely run JB4 by itself on a stock car just be sure to run the appropiate map and you will be good to go! Upgrading the charge pipe is never a bad idea as a just in case mod but I think on map 1 on a stock car you should be okay.
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      12-09-2014, 11:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp1ke
Im interested in knowing this as well.
Can u just run JB4 alone for some more overall power over stock? Or do you really need supporting mods (do, intake, chargepipe) to benefit from the tune?
Will running JB4 alone put stress on other components throughout the longevity of the engine? Like if u run the tune alone would it be a good idea to upgrade the chargepipe because it will likely break off under more than usual pressure?
If you are going to keep them stock but JB4, I would suggest just get the JB Stage 1.
It is a bit less than the JB4 Stage 2 on Map 1. But it would be less headache on the installation and firmware upgrade etc.
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      12-10-2014, 12:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r33 View Post
If you are going to keep them stock but JB4, I would suggest just get the JB Stage 1.
It is a bit less than the JB4 Stage 2 on Map 1. But it would be less headache on the installation and firmware upgrade etc.
As the car comes stock with ~11 psi, is it even worth it to buy and run JB4 on map 1 with about ~13 psi? Or are there other factors involved to make the car drive differently?

Would running it on map 5 push more psi and more pressure on the stock turbos?

Sorry for all the noob questions
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      12-10-2014, 12:24 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp1ke
Quote:
Originally Posted by r33 View Post
If you are going to keep them stock but JB4, I would suggest just get the JB Stage 1.
It is a bit less than the JB4 Stage 2 on Map 1. But it would be less headache on the installation and firmware upgrade etc.
As the car comes stock with ~11 psi, is it even worth it to buy and run JB4 on map 1 with about ~13 psi? Or are there other factors involved to make the car drive differently?

Would running it on map 5 push more psi and more pressure on the stock turbos?

Sorry for all the noob questions
With stock condition, it is pointless to run map 5. You will not be gaining as much as map 1 as map 5 is self learning.
I would recommend JB4 Stage 2 if you have plan on the mods that you are going to do. Otherwise, without any mods, the JB4 will be a waste.
You can start with JB Stage 1 and upgrade to JB4 Stage 2 if you decided to do more mods.
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      12-10-2014, 03:22 PM   #22
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So with stock everything, but running E85, what map can I run? Will this be a problem with the stock charge pipe (I've read they can blow out)?

Also getting a xdrive here, so I like the idea a few posts back about removing the boost limit in 1st and 2nd.
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