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      06-24-2014, 07:38 PM   #1
robkap
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The Incredible Missing Modern Safety Feature

Test drove the i3 in Seattle last week, and was thoroughly impressed.

Except...I cannot figure out why BMW does not offer modern safety technology ubiquitous even in low-end cars - Blind Spot Detection.

Why does a mid-range Hertz Buick rental have better technology than an i3?
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      06-24-2014, 09:28 PM   #2
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Most people don't realize that if you properly adjust the mirrors, there are no blind spots.
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      06-25-2014, 01:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkap View Post
Test drove the i3 in Seattle last week, and was thoroughly impressed.

Except...I cannot figure out why BMW does not offer modern safety technology ubiquitous even in low-end cars - Blind Spot Detection.

Why does a mid-range Hertz Buick rental have better technology than an i3?
'Blind Spot Detection.’ never heard of it. What is it exactly and how does it work?
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      06-25-2014, 12:52 PM   #4
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"Blind Spot Detection" automatically lights indicator on left or right side mirror when a car is passing you.

Driving rental car on NY State Thruway in heavy storm with low visibility this winter, I found it to be one of those things that once tried is tough to give up.
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      06-25-2014, 12:57 PM   #5
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Thats a new one to me. Never had it and never felt the need for it - even when driving in Naples Italy!
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      06-25-2014, 01:21 PM   #6
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The issue may be that to do this, you need a constant electrical draw, and it was not deemed worth it for the city car nature of the design (there'd be cars there most of the time in a busy city!). But, if you have the option, it does scan for parking spaces below a certain speed while driving straight. The range of those isn't all that great.

The magic to adjusting mirrors 'properly' is to lean towards the mirror in question, and adjust it so you can just see the side of the car. THen, when sitting normally, it shows you what had been in those blind spots. The only time you may want them tilted in more, is if the rear-view mirror is obstructed by some load you're carrying, and then you need to be able to see directly behind you. Done correctly, you should be able to see three pretty much full lanes., and be able to view someone passing you in the mirror until they are easily visible out your side windows.
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      06-25-2014, 09:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
The issue may be that to do this, you need a constant electrical draw, and it was not deemed worth it for the city car nature of the design (there'd be cars there most of the time in a busy city!). But, if you have the option, it does scan for parking spaces below a certain speed while driving straight. The range of those isn't all that great.

The magic to adjusting mirrors 'properly' is to lean towards the mirror in question, and adjust it so you can just see the side of the car. THen, when sitting normally, it shows you what had been in those blind spots. The only time you may want them tilted in more, is if the rear-view mirror is obstructed by some load you're carrying, and then you need to be able to see directly behind you. Done correctly, you should be able to see three pretty much full lanes., and be able to view someone passing you in the mirror until they are easily visible out your side windows.
This is exactly correct. See we can agree on something
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      06-26-2014, 09:56 AM   #8
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The side windows are the blind spot, at least the rear side windows.. you still need to check regardless of how you set your mirrors and whether or not you have blind spot detection (helpful but not reliable enough to disregard basic driving principles). There is no magic to adjusting your mirrors to eliminate blind spot, you still need to turn your head and look.

Last edited by chrisny; 06-26-2014 at 10:05 AM..
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      06-26-2014, 10:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny
The side windows are the blind spot, at least the rear side windows.. you still need to check regardless of how you set your mirrors and whether or not you have blind spot detection (helpful but not reliable enough to disregard basic driving principles). There is no magic to adjusting your mirrors to eliminate blind spot, you still need to turn your head and look.
Not really true. Having had a few convertibles with huge blind spots with the roof up, I've learned to set the mirrors to not have blind spots. Turning your head just gets you a view of the soft top. The i3 I drove had great sight lines, I can't think of any reason to want BSM. The cars I've driven with BSM are more distracting and I always turn it off quickly.
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      06-26-2014, 10:55 AM   #10
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not buying it guys, the mirror can't see everything. if you put it close enough to not have the normal blind spot along the side of your car, you're too close and can't see as much further out. As I said, more about the rear passenger window, I suppose convertibles are a different animal. I'll gladly try this and eat crow if you're right.

I do agree that BSM isn't necessary though, especially on this car. I think it's only so useful on any car, if people rely on it too much or let it be distracting. Same thing with lane departure. Test drove an F15 with it and it was so unreliable, I would be 2 feet over a clearly marked, freshly painted center line sometimes before it went off. If people rely on these things, it's more dangerous than not having it.

Last edited by chrisny; 06-26-2014 at 11:03 AM..
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      06-27-2014, 02:14 AM   #11
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Yes, you can adjust the mirrors and eliminate blind spots.

But also, yes, you can pump the brakes and stop a car on ice without antilock brakes.

The technology is valuable, it is here to stay, and it will soon be ubiquitous.
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      06-27-2014, 05:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robkap View Post
Yes, you can adjust the mirrors and eliminate blind spots.

But also, yes, you can pump the brakes and stop a car on ice without antilock brakes.

The technology is valuable, it is here to stay, and it will soon be ubiquitous.
God I hope not. It annoying technology for people who actually know how to properly set their mirrors and drive. None of us who know how to set the mirrors properly ever said you then not need to double check with a quick head turn before changing lanes.

So the actual method for adjustment is to lean towards the window so your head lightly touches the window, then adjust the mirror to just see the edge of the side of the car in the inner edge of the mirror. Then lean the same amount towards the passenger side and adjust the passenger mirror in the same manner. It really works, try it. You can actually set the mirrors where half of an approaching car will be in the inside rear-view mirror and the other half will show in the side mirror.
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      07-07-2014, 12:20 PM   #13
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None of us who know how to set the mirrors properly ever said you then not need to double check with a quick head turn before changing lanes.
If you truly believed your magical "method" of adjustments have eliminated every possible blind spot, you wouldn't feel the need to….. My point is, adjusting the mirrors isn't some magic discovery, it's why they're adjustable and exactly what you're supposed to do. But unless you're making them bigger, as you move them around, there's always something you can't see in some circumstances. So, you do what every driver in every part of the world is taught to do, IN ADDITION to properly setting your mirrors for maximum vision, you do a quick turn of the head and make sure you're not missing something. It's arrogant to think there is a perfect position where 3 tiny mirrors let you see 100% of what's around the sides and behind your car. You admitted it's still smart to do a quick head turn (aka "checking your blind spot ), so I don't take you for arrogant nor irresponsible.

That said, we're all human and sometimes forget to check no matter how responsible we may be, so newer safety features like blind spot detection and lane departure warnings are just another way to help, and just like mirrors and back-up cameras, should never replace simple common sense and basic driving skills.
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      07-07-2014, 04:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
If you truly believed your magical "method" of adjustments have eliminated every possible blind spot, you wouldn't feel the need to….. My point is, adjusting the mirrors isn't some magic discovery, it's why they're adjustable and exactly what you're supposed to do. But unless you're making them bigger, as you move them around, there's always something you can't see in some circumstances. So, you do what every driver in every part of the world is taught to do, IN ADDITION to properly setting your mirrors for maximum vision, you do a quick turn of the head and make sure you're not missing something. It's arrogant to think there is a perfect position where 3 tiny mirrors let you see 100% of what's around the sides and behind your car. You admitted it's still smart to do a quick head turn (aka "checking your blind spot ), so I don't take you for arrogant nor irresponsible.

That said, we're all human and sometimes forget to check no matter how responsible we may be, so newer safety features like blind spot detection and lane departure warnings are just another way to help, and just like mirrors and back-up cameras, should never replace simple common sense and basic driving skills.
Well it's not magic, but actually documented proper procedure, written in at least 3 automotive magazines I've read over the past 20 years or so; and also known by most professional drivers. And the amount of rotation I do with my head is maybe about 10 degrees from straight ahead so I use my peripheral vision to look at this side while being able to still see what is a head of me (which is the more important vision perspective to keep - hitting shit in front of you is worse than sideswiping another vehicle). I've seen too many people completly turn their head and take their eyes from the path of travel, which is the worng technique. The problem with new technology is people will learn to rely on it and when it fails, someone may get hurt or killed. I'll rely on my skills not the car's tech. The real issue is most people don't taking driving serious enough.

What the proper mirror placement allows you to do is rapidly scan the rear view to maintain a level of cognizance of how the traffic behind you is moving from lane to lane and approaching or falling away from you. Proper driving technique is constantly scanning the road ahead and behind to keep the best situational awareness. One should keep aware of traffic so that you know when a car is at your left or right rear quarter and can momentarily be out of vision. Ride a motorcycle in traffic and you'll understand. There's a difference between being arrogant and being confident...
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      07-07-2014, 05:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Well it's not magic
that was my point.. it's the way you're supposed to do it, not a 'trick' no one knows about.
Quote:
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I've seen too many people completly turn their head and take their eyes from the path of travel, which is the worng technique. The problem with new technology is people will learn to rely on it and when it fails, someone may get hurt or killed. I'll rely on my skills not the car's tech. The real issue is most people don't taking driving serious enough.
Agree with all of these points, exactly what I was saying. No one thing should be relied on without basic driving skills and common sense. They driving aids are not reliable enough and as good as they'll ever get, 100% success rate is impossible, it's still a computer. Only takes once to kill someone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
What the proper mirror placement allows you to do is rapidly scan the rear view to maintain a level of cognizance of how the traffic behind you is moving from lane to lane and approaching or falling away from you. Proper driving technique is constantly scanning the road ahead and behind to keep the best situational awareness. One should keep aware of traffic so that you know when a car is at your left or right rear quarter and can momentarily be out of vision. Ride a motorcycle in traffic and you'll understand.
Agreed, and I have.
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
There's a difference between being arrogant and being confident...
Agreed again, but you missed the point. My point was it would be arrogant (not confident) to suggest the mirrors can be positioned to have zero blind spot, zero need to take a look to your left, however slightly. My point was also that I didn't think you were being arrogant, as you said properly setting up your mirrors doesn't eliminate the need to still turn your head a little and look.
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      07-07-2014, 08:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
that was my point.. it's the way you're supposed to do it, not a 'trick' no one knows about.

Agree with all of these points, exactly what I was saying. No one thing should be relied on without basic driving skills and common sense. They driving aids are not reliable enough and as good as they'll ever get, 100% success rate is impossible, it's still a computer. Only takes once to kill someone

Agreed, and I have.

Agreed again, but you missed the point. My point was it would be arrogant (not confident) to suggest the mirrors can be positioned to have zero blind spot, zero need to take a look to your left, however slightly. My point was also that I didn't think you were being arrogant, as you said properly setting up your mirrors doesn't eliminate the need to still turn your head a little and look.
Then I apologize, it took your post the wrong way.
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      07-07-2014, 08:10 PM   #17
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BMW figured out a better way

Not sure why we do not get at least the option in the USA, but Euro spec i3s have the outside 1/3 or so of both side rear view mirrors optically expanded to capture pretty much anything that might show up in our typical blind spot. There is something of a dotted line that separates the 1:1 view from the expanded view, and it becomes instantly intuitive. In my opinion, it is a far simpler and more elegant solution to the blind spot problem than an idiot light. My guess is that some moronic USA regulation prohibits its use here, and BMW wisely chose to wait for us to wise up and change our rules rather than add a needless layer of complexity to the fraction of their i3 fleet they sell here.
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      07-07-2014, 08:14 PM   #18
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Not sure why we do not get at least the option in the USA, but Euro spec i3s have the outside 1/3 or so of both side rear view mirrors optically expanded to capture pretty much anything that might show up in our typical blind spot. There is something of a dotted line that separates the 1:1 view from the expanded view, and it becomes instantly intuitive. In my opinion, it is a far simpler and more elegant solution to the blind spot problem than an idiot light. My guess is that some moronic USA regulation prohibits its use here, and BMW wisely chose to wait for us to wise up and change our rules rather than add a needless layer of complexity to the fraction of their i3 fleet they sell here.
I drove the i3 today. It took a few miles, but I was immediately comfortable with the outside mirrors. The inside mirror was cut wrong making it seem to be installed upside down. But the car has so much thrust that placing it in holes in traffic I found to be a non issue.
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      07-08-2014, 05:12 PM   #19
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How about a quick glance back after looking in the mirror. That's what I do. I was taught never to just trust your mirrors...
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      07-09-2014, 05:40 PM   #20
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this car does not need blind spot detection...if you think it does, you're looking at getting the wrong vehicle
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      07-09-2014, 09:05 PM   #21
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To me, being taught to "never trust your mirrors" just means the person teaching you didn't know how to properly adjust the mirrors and thus couldn't teach his students; so the next best thing? "Don't trust your mirrors."
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      07-10-2014, 08:22 AM   #22
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The biggest thing is, you really do have to look first! Whether it is via properly adjusted mirrors or physically turning your head, if you keep aware of your surroundings, your chances of getting into trouble are much less. The only times I've had a close call are when you're passing someone on a multilane road, and someone else ends up pulling out to pass into the lane of the vehicle you've just passed, especially if you're passing something like a tractor trailer which was blocking the right lanes for awhile.

I really enjoyed driving in Germany when I lived there...except during the summer when there were lots of tourists. The Germans really take following the rules of the road to heart, so people actually keep right except to pass, and do not pass on the right. Plus, they do follow the right of way rules. Course, there are always the exceptions, but as a general rule...you can be pretty sure the rules will be followed, which makes it less stressful and safer. Their driver training and required knowledge of the rules before they can get a license is vastly more intense and complete than the silly 20-question written test, and short driving test we give people. Given that, it's a marvel that more people aren't injured in vehicular accidents here. I think we have our attitudes and expectations wrong...driving is a privilege, not a right, and it should be earned.
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