[NBTBRV8]

Has anyone tried to see if the calipers are interchangeable, i.e no difference other than colour?

[Evil Derboy]

They're not the same. There are physical differences. The most obvious being that there is a bridge that joins both sides of the caliper behind the pads, preventing the pads being removed without removing the caliper first.

My understanding is that there's a number of difference across the whole brake system also.

[pbonsalb]

I think there is a slight width and diameter difference to the rotors that the calipers may accommodate or that may be handled through pad size. But I think you can buy aftermarket steel rotors for the carbon spec calipers and you can buy aftermarket carbon rotors for the steel spec calipers. I would probably not mix and match stock parts, but I have not tried.

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by Moonstone_UK

They're not the same. There are physical differences. The most obvious being that there is a bridge that joins both sides of the caliper behind the pads, preventing the pads being removed without removing the caliper first.

My understanding is that there's a number of difference across the whole brake system also.

pretty sure thats the same on both standard and CCB...

[Evil Derboy]

You might be right. I’ve been reading about brakes that much that I could be talking about the F80 versions. I have read that the hardware is different though. Apparently the brake booster is a different part number also.

[NBTBRV8]

The base booster is different and the rotor backing plates are smaller for more air flow.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by NBTBRV8

The base booster is different and the rotor backing plates are smaller for more air flow.

I'll weigh in on this one, the booster is indeed different.

However, the rotor backing plate for the CCB is bigger than the steel ones. If there's any good reason for the difference, it's so when your dumb ass (me, that is), yanks the wheel off and lets the wheel barrel drop more than you want it to, it hits the backing plate and not the rotor. Trust me. It is clearly designed to do that.

But to address the rest of the discussion, I've looked into this one A LOT. The calipers are physically different. They are because the CCB rotor is 410 x 38 mm. The metal rotor is 400 mm x 36 mm. You can THEORETICALLY put the metal rotor and pad into the CCB car, but there will be a 5mm difference in the edge of the rotor. There's AT LEAST a 2mm overhang of the CCB rotor over the caliper (the pad is inboard 2mm from the edge of the CCB). So the metal rotor may not engage about 3mm of the pad. This WILL work, and WILL stop the car.

BUT, there's a caveat that I do not know now. I do NOT know the "backspacing" of the rotor. I do NOT know if the metal rotor, shoved into the CCB rotor caliper, will be "centered" within the caliper. I just have no clue. RacingBrake had to buy a used F90 metal caliper to figure out all their dimensions. I don't know if they bought a CCB caliper and rotor to work it out.

One thing I can say FOR SURE, is that you CAN buy the "blue" calipers from the base car and bolt them on with the metal brakes. The upright is the same. There's no other conclusion. Front and back. If you get the blue calipers, you're golden. Bolt them up, with metal rotors, and go.

I have theorized that the rear brakes will use the metal rotors just fine. They are both 396mm. The metal rotor is 24mm wide. The CCB is 26 mm wide. I'm really really certain the caliper is EXACTLY the same (just as every OTHER shitty back caliper on a BMW with electronic parking brake. The mount frame MIGHT be different, but the caliper is the same.). I cannot confirm this for sure.

Shawn

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I'll weigh in on this one, the booster is indeed different.

However, the rotor backing plate for the CCB is bigger than the steel ones. If there's any good reason for the difference, it's so when your dumb ass (me, that is), yanks the wheel off and lets the wheel barrel drop more than you want it to, it hits the backing plate and not the rotor. Trust me. It is clearly designed to do that.

But to address the rest of the discussion, I've looked into this one A LOT. The calipers are physically different. They are because the CCB rotor is 410 x 38 mm. The metal rotor is 400 mm x 36 mm. You can THEORETICALLY put the metal rotor and pad into the CCB car, but there will be a 5mm difference in the edge of the rotor. There's AT LEAST a 2mm overhang of the CCB rotor over the caliper (the pad is inboard 2mm from the edge of the CCB). So the metal rotor may not engage about 3mm of the pad. This WILL work, and WILL stop the car.

BUT, there's a caveat that I do not know now. I do NOT know the "backspacing" of the rotor. I do NOT know if the metal rotor, shoved into the CCB rotor caliper, will be "centered" within the caliper. I just have no clue. RacingBrake had to buy a used F90 metal caliper to figure out all their dimensions. I don't know if they bought a CCB caliper and rotor to work it out.

One thing I can say FOR SURE, is that you CAN buy the "blue" calipers from the base car and bolt them on with the metal brakes. The upright is the same. There's no other conclusion. Front and back. If you get the blue calipers, you're golden. Bolt them up, with metal rotors, and go.

I have theorized that the rear brakes will use the metal rotors just fine. They are both 396mm. The metal rotor is 24mm wide. The CCB is 26 mm wide. I'm really really certain the caliper is EXACTLY the same (just as every OTHER shitty back caliper on a BMW with electronic parking brake. The mount frame MIGHT be different, but the caliper is the same.). I cannot confirm this for sure.

Shawn

i dealt with this a bit on my AMG when i upgraded them to the oem rotors and CLK63 calipers. The rotors were 5mm taller but 2mm narrower so i ended up having to get custom 2.5mm SS washers fabricated to lift the caliper away from the hub to fit. As far as "centering" i would assume its safe to say given its an even value difference of 2mm that it is 1mm thicker in each direction and thus would still remain centered. i have to assume here that to this would be the cheapest path for bmw to do. i also would imagine the caliper would not have issue adjusting for 1mm in piston travel. It'll fill it up with fluid until it makes contact.

really just need someone to take a pair of "measuring" calipers and get the inner dimensions of each caliper and see if the CCB ones are 2mm wider. I know that when you put in new pads you do have some wiggle room when sliding them over the rotor. question is, is that wiggle room equal to at least 1mm of travel for each bank of pistons.

bottom line is i bet the blue ones would fit.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

i dealt with this a bit on my AMG when i upgraded them to the oem rotors and CLK63 calipers. The rotors were 5mm taller but 2mm narrower so i ended up having to get custom 2.5mm SS washers fabricated to lift the caliper away from the hub to fit. As far as "centering" i would assume its safe to say given its an even value difference of 2mm that it is 1mm thicker in each direction and thus would still remain centered. i have to assume here that to this would be the cheapest path for bmw to do. i also would imagine the caliper would not have issue adjusting for 1mm in piston travel. It'll fill it up with fluid until it makes contact.

really just need someone to take a pair of "measuring" calipers and get the inner dimensions of each caliper and see if the CCB ones are 2mm wider. I know that when you put in new pads you do have some wiggle room when sliding them over the rotor. question is, is that wiggle room equal to at least 1mm of travel for each bank of pistons.

bottom line is i bet the blue ones would fit.

Same conclusion I arrived at. I'm also betting the metal rotors and metal pads would fit the CCB calipers. I'm VERY tempted to try it. I have to change pads for my next track event. I have a cracked rotor from my 2018 I could try.

$1000 pads every two track events is getting OLD. I could PROBABLY get three, but I don't wanna risk it.

Shawn

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Same conclusion I arrived at. I'm also betting the metal rotors and metal pads would fit the CCB calipers. I'm VERY tempted to try it. I have to change pads for my next track event. I have a cracked rotor from my 2018 I could try.

$1000 pads every two track events is getting OLD. I could PROBABLY get three, but I don't wanna risk it.

Shawn

oh ya. no doubt steel would fit without modification.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

oh ya. no doubt steel would fit without modification.

I know it would if I switched calipers. Do you think it will without? They're a few mm off.

Shawn

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I know it would if I switched calipers. Do you think it will without? They're a few mm off.

Shawn

Yes. You shouldn't have issues going smaller. I know most that buy used cars with ccb just replace with iron on the F10. Should be the same. Only issue I could see is pad wear issue if it sits too high on the steel rotor. But I believe there is a slight west line on oem rotors where the pads don't make full contact as it is.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

Yes. You shouldn't have issues going smaller. I know most that buy used cars with ccb just replace with iron on the F10. Should be the same. Only issue I could see is pad wear issue if it sits too high on the steel rotor. But I believe there is a slight west line on oem rotors where the pads don't make full contact as it is.

It's about 2mm at the edge. If the pads overlay the edges, that does work, but it also grinds the edge of the rotor as the pads wear down (there's like a ribbon of pad material that hangs over the edge. I haven't had Brembo CCB's before, but that did NOT phase the AP CCB's in any way whatsoever). Thanks for the thoughts. I figured as much.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

As someone changing pads and rotors to send you worn out pads and one rotor for a test fit. I would not worry about the 2mm thinner rotor (when new) even if it is not evenly spaced and all on one side. If there was an extra 1/4 inch of pad at the top and bottom, that would be more concerning. Maybe using steel spec pads in the CF spec rotor would address that or maybe only partially. Probably pad material could be trimmed off the backing plate but I have never tried that.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

As someone changing pads and rotors to send you worn out pads and one rotor for a test fit. I would not worry about the 2mm thinner rotor (when new) even if it is not evenly spaced and all on one side. If there was an extra 1/4 inch of pad at the top and bottom, that would be more concerning. Maybe using steel spec pads in the CF spec rotor would address that or maybe only partially. Probably pad material could be trimmed off the backing plate but I have never tried that.

I've got leftover pads and rotor from my 2018. I could test fit it at my next change, but I never have time to do the whole thing without cramping time constraints. I see what you're saying, I just was pointing out the potential flaws. I've tried crazier shit in my time.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Confirmed. Steel rotors and pads WILL FIT the ccb calipers.

[pbonsalb]

Are you going to buy a new set to try at the track? I am curious to see your impressions of the difference in braking performance. And whether the steel rotors and/or whatever pads you choose for them wear faster enough that the cost savings disappears.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Are you going to buy a new set to try at the track? I am curious to see your impressions of the difference in braking performance. And whether the steel rotors and/or whatever pads you choose for them wear faster enough that the cost savings disappears.

I had a 2018. On high speed tracks, the difference isn't much. The biggest difference is the lci braking upgrades. The 2018 used wayyyy too much rear brake in m performance mode, and I wore out rear pads very fast. The fronts are going at a pretty fast rate on the CCB's but I'm more concerned about a $4000 rotor. Just two = a lot of cheaper pads for the metal. Full dealer price on pads for this beast are $1000 for just the fronts.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

2018 was not competition. Maybe the 2019 comp models changed the rear brake bias in MDM or maybe it was part of the LCI update. I would hope BMW is improving software over the years.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

2018 was not competition. Maybe the 2019 comp models changed the rear brake bias in MDM or maybe it was part of the LCI update. I would hope BMW is improving software over the years.

I don't know for sure. But, as far as braking bias, the 2018 and M5 CS are different cars. It AIN'T just the compounds.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

How much faster is the CS at the same track?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

How much faster is the CS at the same track?

3 seconds. But that's on the Pirelli's on the M5 CS, and Hoosiers on the 2018. And the CS was STILL three seconds faster.

Shawn