[bm323]

Originally Posted by Goonba

Not sure why its so offensive to some people to discuss which civilian car is quicker on a Vs board. Especially, when its AMG vs M and not Renault 1.2tdi vs Peugeot 1.4tsi. This just happens to be the most active board on the topic. I am sure there is a board somewhere where people argue whether the Maybach or Phantom have the softest closing doors.

I mean people pay to watch motorsport to see which car is quickest by 0.002s, does that make them lunatics? This is the closest the majority here will get to "motorsport", and its great that AMG and M give us the opportunity to argue why either car is 0.1s faster.

Of course it is fine, but you are courting debates with your selective reading and active disregarding of material that go contrary to your speculations. You are also implying that the F90 is sxxx. Do you see others or me implying that of the E63S?

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Quickburn7

One of the few owners of both cars here and they are equal in performance and there will be no way to tell any difference without a VBOX. What people should really be focusing on when picking which one of these to buy is the personality they want. Both cars have such unique characteristics I feel that’s what people should focus on!
I really liked my E63 and really like the M5 but for very different reasons. These Magazines aren’t spending the time with the cars to really feel how different they really are performance aside.

I was waiting for you my friend(so a total of 3 current or prev owners of the W213 E63S are really here as far as I know)... I think the AMG vs M battles are the reason why we love sedans so much (and other chassis's). When I got my 2001 E55, the E39 wasnt out, then I got that amazing E39 (arguably the best of the M sedans) and it was a whole new game. But wait then came the W211 E55 with 516lb/ft of torque and that was a game changer with my 2004. M fired back with the E60 but I chose the E63 version with the M6 and loved that V10 song. I did the first W212 E63 and that car was N/A and left a little on the table vs the M157 E63 TT and CLS63TT's I had. The F10 M5's were two of the most brilliant roll race cars Ive owned along with the F13 M6 but the dig aspect messed that up from power usage standpoint.

The Hammer vs the Scalpel as so many have eloquently put it. Great stuff.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I was waiting for you my friend(so a total of 3 current or prev owners of the W213 E63S are really here as far as I know)... I think the AMG vs M battles are the reason why we love sedans so much (and other chassis's). When I got my 2001 E55, the E39 wasnt out, then I got that amazing E39 (arguably the best of the M sedans) and it was a whole new game. But wait then came the W211 E55 with 516lb/ft of torque and that was a game changer with my 2004. M fired back with the E60 but I chose the E63 version with the M6 and loved that V10 song. I did the first W212 E63 and that car was N/A and left a little on the table vs the M157 E63 TT and CLS63TT's I had. The F10 M5's were two of the most brilliant roll race cars Ive owned along with the F13 M6 but the dig aspect messed that up from power usage standpoint.

The Hammer vs the Scalpel as so many have eloquently put it. Great stuff.

Don't forget the RS7 Performance Vic, I know in many people's eyes Audi isn't to the equal of M and AMG but that car is pretty fast.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Don't forget the RS7 Performance Vic, I know in many people's eyes Audi isn't to the equal of M and AMG but that car is pretty fast.

Actually the RS7 Performance is easily in the same category - stock for stock - up to the 1/4 mile. Almost the same claimed output - exact same claimed torque. The MPH is 125ish - so this is where the AMG and F90 have slightly more potential. ET is in the low 11’s.

And they are easily modded having been out do a few years.

On the road course - it hasn’t had stellar results.

[Wolfman64]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Don't forget the RS7 Performance Vic, I know in many people's eyes Audi isn't to the equal of M and AMG but that car is pretty fast.

Coincidently Vic has a beautiful RS7 Performance and it’s tuned
Was it 700hp? And his E63s is tuned as well.

I am looking for some seat time in the new M5 so I can post some real world feedback as well.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Don't forget the RS7 Performance Vic, I know in many people's eyes Audi isn't to the equal of M and AMG but that car is pretty fast.

I had 2 of them as you know... They are big pigs that handle like... big pigs LOL. Realistic traps outside of magazines are more along the lines of 122-123 and my last RS7 weighed about the same as my E63S and the terms of handling are not even close.

But and I say but, once you tune an RS7 the gains in the 4.0 TFSI are incredible with a tune only car hitting mid tens (best on Audizine) and over 130 traps. Not bad on race gas and just a tune. Stage 2 cars (DP's, tune, race gas) hit around 134 traps and lower 10's. Just your every day AWD warrior sport back.

The ZF's in my RS7's did a great job- and alot had to do with the TCU programming which was very intuitive in Drive-Sport mode. Thats why when I heard the F90 was getting the ZF; I didnt really care as BMW does a great job in their electronics too.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I had 2 of them as you know... They are big pigs that handle like... big pigs LOL. Realistic traps outside of magazines are more along the lines of 122-123 and my last RS7 weighed about the same as my E63S and the terms of handling are not even close.

But and I say but, once you tune an RS7 the gains in the 4.0 TFSI are incredible with a tune only car hitting mid tens (best on Audizine) and over 130 traps. Not bad on race gas and just a tune. Stage 2 cars (DP's, tune, race gas) hit around 134 traps and lower 10's. Just your every day AWD warrior sport back.

The ZF's in my RS7's did a great job- and alot had to do with the TCU programming which was very intuitive in Drive-Sport mode. Thats why when I heard the F90 was getting the ZF; I didnt really care as BMW does a great job in their electronics too.

Being fair - any Tire offered by the manufacturer stinks for drags. PS4’s, PS2’s (especially) - all of them. Road course - that is different - as that is what they are meant for.

Toyo R888’s - now R888R’s are the go to Tire most of us use up to about 850 whp (1000 HP) and they are great on the road course as well. Noisy and not good in the rain - but performance all round - I would say the best (NT01’s also made by the same ownership are good all round - but better on the road course than drags and 555R’s are almost completely drags - called a DR which they are not). Many Mclaren owners use them R888R’s - and again - most people who mod.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The E63 S board is like the M5 F90 doesn't exist. The owners are happy with their choice, and noone seems to care about anything else. The F10 section, everyone admires the cars, and all is well. This section here is totally relatable to my previous comment on another thread. There seems to be a level of fanboyism that is pretty absurd. It is like the M5 F90 is a supermegacar and the E 63 S is a bucket of shit, and it is not like that. Both are exceptional cars, and represent a new era for cars. These are the first heavy big cars that exceed 2 ton that handle like sportcars and lap like sportscars.

I will drive the M5 F90 on 5th of June on track, and by them I will be able to put my opinions on paper as a previous owner of a W212 E 63 4Matic, C218 CLS 63, F10 M5, and current F06 M6 GC owner.

From reviews so far the only thing I can say is that the E63 has had trouble with braking in 3 tests (Motor Trend, Sport Auto and the first Autozeitung track test). The M5 F90 is lighter on its feet (brakes better, and is quicker on turn in) and rides better. The E63 S has the best steering and best engine, and in terms of handling and grip they are equal.

You're spot on. Couldn't agree more. Excited to hear your feedback! And as always, the loudest ones are always the guilty parties.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

You're spot on. Couldn't agree more. Excited to hear your feedback! And as always, the loudest ones are always the guilty parties.

Lol...this page is so much fun. Being a member of each forum - I will have to disagree with your assessment.

They are identical.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Lol...this page is so much fun. Being a member of each forum - I will have to disagree with your assessment.

They are identical.

Why am I not surprised?

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Why am I not surprised?

Because you are used to me being accurate?

I appreciate the support.

[josec70]

I can't wait to see the aftermarket development of this platform and how it performs against the competition with some real-world drivers behind the wheel.

Already seeing tuned E63S AMG's so hopefully tuners will crack this platform; if the F10 M5 is any indication it may take a while but a piggy should not take long.

I love the F10 M5 and really enjoyed that platform; just ordered the F90 and can't wait to get behind the wheel and start experimenting.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Because you are used to me being accurate?

I appreciate the support.

It's funny, what you choose to read and perceive in comparison with reality. Maybe not funny, moreover, just sad.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

It's funny, what you choose to read and perceive in comparison with reality. Maybe not funny, moreover, just sad.

Interesting. I was going to write the same thing in regards to you.

[Goonba]

Finally, the first street drags are coming in.

Not very high quality but....first vid without LC, second vid with LC




Obviously, I am not saying this is definitive proof because its a street drag.

[Goonba]

Pretty even up to 200km/h as the mags suggest, but looks like a 1/2 mile drag will be pretty embarrassing.

Forgot the link to the 3rd vid https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh3cyU-l8Ii/

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Goonba

Pretty even up to 200km/h as the mags suggest, but looks like a 1/2 mile drag will be pretty embarrassing.

Forgot the link to the 3rd vid https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh3cyU-l8Ii/

Thanks for sharing! Both are cruise missiles.

[Goonba]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Thanks for sharing! Both are cruise missiles.

Think they will be posting tons of videos as there were more than 10 runs done (both cars are Edition 1s). The guy said the margin was greatest when both cars refuelled with 100 octane - the E63 pulled pretty hard.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Goonba

Think they will be posting tons of videos as there were more than 10 runs done (both cars are Edition 1s). The guy said the margin was greatest when both cars refuelled with 100 octane - the E63 pulled pretty hard.

I have always stated that the more powerful - 9 Speed E63S - will take the roll anywhere over 110-120 MPH.

That said - I think it seems from the lack of comments that even the haters will have a tough time jumping on these videos for “proof”.

Were those honk dig races lol?

[Goonba]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I have always stated that the more powerful - 9 Speed E63S - will take the roll anywhere over 110-120 MPH.

That said - I think it seems from the lack of comments that even the haters will have a tough time jumping on these videos for “proof”.

Were those honk dig races lol?

Yep. I'm not insisting these are decisive in any way. They did their best to do as many attempts as possible with/without launch, same fuel etc. but the E took every run similar to CarWow vid. 100 octane made the gap more prevalent. I wasn't there but the owners' summaries are in the comments.

What is a bit disappointing is that its a First Edition M5 - you'd think BMW would give it a tiny bit more zooooooom.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Goonba

Yep. I'm not insisting these are decisive in any way. They did their best to do as many attempts as possible with/without launch, same fuel etc. but the E took every run similar to CarWow vid. 100 octane made the gap more prevalent. I wasn't there but the owners' summaries are in the comments.

What is a bit disappointing is that its a First Edition M5 - you'd think BMW would give it a tiny bit more zooooooom.

Lol. This is what I know:

I know an AMS approved Shop dynod the baseline F90 - and their numbers show it has a goodly amount of “zoom”.

I also know that the lowest trap speed I’ve seen for an F90 is 126.7 MPH. Which is a very solid trap speed for any car. I also have not seen an E63S car make 128+ which I have with the F90. Finally - the gentleman with both cars said himself - that once he learned how to use the car - the F90 was night and day and felt the F90 was quicker and faster than his E63S - to the 1/4 and the E63S had more top end - which will all knew.

It’s unfortunate mine is a ways away - as I would end all of this discussion having a bunch of E63S’s here - some that have already been tuned.
That said - a member from my group will be getting his shortly and we will put out a video on it when he is okay to do it.

I will say it again: F90 to 60 MPH and to the 1/4 - 8/10 times - they are very close - but gearing is in favour of the F90 to that point.

Roll racing - the E63S will walk it pretty well especially at higher speeds. It will also be faster in the 1/2 mile - I would say 5-8 MPH+ on pump (non ethanol) gas and depending on the DA.

BMW stated they created the tune for this car that would not be exactly what the AMG is - all low end. They wanted something “more dynamic” across the rev range.

With tunes - for both - they will again be very close - but ultimately displacement will win out for the F90.

[vtknight]

Road coursing - I don’t think there will be much to debate - the F90 M5 is the quicker and more agile car.