[vtknight]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

How many times does the E63S have to beat the F90 in order for people to really accept it? Maybe as many as it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop? E63S is a beast. Never have been an AMG fan but I'm drinking this new Kool Aid and it's good.

Lol. I'm sure you are trolling. How many times does the base F90 have to beat the top tier E63S? E63S IS a beast for what it is.

The F90 M5 - just a little bit more so.

[Wolfman64]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Lol. I'm sure you are trolling. How many times does the base F90 have to beat the top tier E63S? E63S IS a beast for what it is.

The F90 M5 - just a little bit more so.

I think it's a silly argument at least in the US/Canada. There is no base or top model. There is one M5 and one E63s available for purchase. The M5 competes with the feature set of the 63s (rwd drift mode, etc.).

Model upgrades will arrive from both brands. BMW with the CP and MB likely with the stronger 63 already showcased in the GT 4 door

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Wolfman64

I think it's a silly argument at least in the US/Canada. There is no base or top model. There is one M5 and one E63s available for purchase. The M5 competes with the feature set of the 63s (rwd drift mode, etc.).

Model upgrades will arrive from both brands. BMW with the CP and MB likely with the stronger 63 already showcased in the GT 4 door

Whats up Wolf, good to see you here. I guess Ill just wait for the ZCP and its 15hp bump cause I would hate to just have a base M5.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Whats up Wolf, good to see you here. I guess Ill just wait for the ZCP and its 15hp bump cause I would hate to just have a base M5.

Hahahaha Vic.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Hahahaha Vic.

Phat whats cracking, what a difference this place is vs (no pun) the F10 section with the same name. So much respect there for all cars, owners, and their abilities. Over there though, the majority are current owners and state their personal experiences instead of what they see here in a magazine or on a vid.

The E63s board is completely different.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Phat whats cracking, what a difference this place is vs (no pun) the F10 section with the same name. So much respect there for all cars, owners, and their abilities. Over there though, the majority are current owners and state their personal experiences instead of what they see here in a magazine or on a vid.

The E63s board is completely different.

I think its safe to say I have a reasonable amount of real world experience when it comes to cars and racing.

For the F90 - there really isn't much more beyond the fact that the F90 has beaten the E63S more times than not (75%?) although the cars are quite close either way. I find it humorous that posters are somehow trying to twist the facts to say the E63S is the car showing superior performance numbers more times than not.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Wolfman64

I think it's a silly argument at least in the US/Canada. There is no base or top model. There is one M5 and one E63s available for purchase. The M5 competes with the feature set of the 63s (rwd drift mode, etc.).

Model upgrades will arrive from both brands. BMW with the CP and MB likely with the stronger 63 already showcased in the GT 4 door

I don't think so. Mercedes built an E63. It can't be purchased in North America - true - but it is a model that is available in other parts of the world. The BMW only has the one model - for now.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I think its safe to say I have a reasonable amount of real world experience when it comes to cars and racing.

For the F90 - there really isn't much more beyond the fact that the F90 has beaten the E63S more times than not (75%?) although the cars are quite close either way. I find it humorous that posters are somehow trying to twist the facts to say the E63S is the car showing superior performance numbers more times than not.

When I was talking about real world experience (not directed at you) I was talking about ownership of the car(s) in question and in this sub section, the majority have not taken delivery of their F90's yet nor have they had substanstial seat time in the E63S.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

When I was talking about real world experience (not directed at you) I was talking about ownership of the car(s) in question and in this sub section, the majority have not taken delivery of their F90's yet nor have they had substanstial seat time in the E63S.

This is a fair point - but also what I said - there really isn't much option to have individual feedback as the F90 is too new. I have been fortunate to have been in the new E - coming from my last E63S I truly thought that is what I would have bought.

For everyone who has their positions - the great news is that there will be more videos than we know what to do with shortly. The issue there is you will never truly know was is stock or not - and who is using the car properly.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Phat whats cracking, what a difference this place is vs (no pun) the F10 section with the same name. So much respect there for all cars, owners, and their abilities. Over there though, the majority are current owners and state their personal experiences instead of what they see here in a magazine or on a vid.

The E63s board is completely different.

The E63 S board is like the M5 F90 doesn't exist. The owners are happy with their choice, and noone seems to care about anything else. The F10 section, everyone admires the cars, and all is well. This section here is totally relatable to my previous comment on another thread. There seems to be a level of fanboyism that is pretty absurd. It is like the M5 F90 is a supermegacar and the E 63 S is a bucket of shit, and it is not like that. Both are exceptional cars, and represent a new era for cars. These are the first heavy big cars that exceed 2 ton that handle like sportcars and lap like sportscars.

I will drive the M5 F90 on 5th of June on track, and by them I will be able to put my opinions on paper as a previous owner of a W212 E 63 4Matic, C218 CLS 63, F10 M5, and current F06 M6 GC owner.

From reviews so far the only thing I can say is that the E63 has had trouble with braking in 3 tests (Motor Trend, Sport Auto and the first Autozeitung track test). The M5 F90 is lighter on its feet (brakes better, and is quicker on turn in) and rides better. The E63 S has the best steering and best engine, and in terms of handling and grip they are equal.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The E63 S board is like the M5 F90 doesn't exist. The owners are happy with their choice, and noone seems to care about anything else. The F10 section, everyone admires the cars, and all is well. This section here is totally relatable to my previous comment on another thread. There seems to be a level of fanboyism that is pretty absurd. It is like the M5 F90 is a supermegacar and the E 63 S is a bucket of shit, and it is not like that. Both are exceptional cars, and represent a new era for cars. These are the first heavy big cars that exceed 2 ton that handle like sportcars and lap like sportscars.

I will drive the M5 F90 on 5th of June on track, and by them I will be able to put my opinions on paper as a previous owner of a W212 E 63 4Matic, C218 CLS 63, F10 M5, and current F06 M6 GC owner.

From reviews so far the only thing I can say is that the E63 has had trouble with braking in 3 tests (Motor Trend, Sport Auto and the first Autozeitung track test). The M5 F90 is lighter on its feet (brakes better, and is quicker on turn in) and rides better. The E63 S has the best steering and best engine, and in terms of handling and grip they are equal.

Yeah because they're coming here like this Goonba guy..... Lol Kidding

And I agree both cars are great. I've said it a few times now. I am sure I'll end up buying an E63s also in the next few years when I get tired of the M5.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The E63 S board is like the M5 F90 doesn't exist. The owners are happy with their choice, and noone seems to care about anything else. The F10 section, everyone admires the cars, and all is well. This section here is totally relatable to my previous comment on another thread. There seems to be a level of fanboyism that is pretty absurd. It is like the M5 F90 is a supermegacar and the E 63 S is a bucket of shit, and it is not like that. Both are exceptional cars, and represent a new era for cars. These are the first heavy big cars that exceed 2 ton that handle like sportcars and lap like sportscars.

I will drive the M5 F90 on 5th of June on track, and by them I will be able to put my opinions on paper as a previous owner of a W212 E 63 4Matic, C218 CLS 63, F10 M5, and current F06 M6 GC owner.

From reviews so far the only thing I can say is that the E63 has had trouble with braking in 3 tests (Motor Trend, Sport Auto and the first Autozeitung track test). The M5 F90 is lighter on its feet (brakes better, and is quicker on turn in) and rides better. The E63 S has the best steering and best engine, and in terms of handling and grip they are equal.

Please. All boards are the same. That said - who is stating that the E63S is a piece of crap?

Please do post some examples. And please do post some examples of where people are stating the F90 M5 is the greatest car in the world.

Good luck.

There is a difference between fanboiism and simply stating the available facts. I also find it funny that there is so much hate for the BMW F90 M5 on a BMW website - especially when it is outperforming - more times than not - the E63S accoriding to the available testing.

Could there be a bias? Especially for those who are on here as MB owners and perhaps need to justify their purchase?

You don't have to answer - that was a rhetorical question.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Please. All boards are the same. That said - who is stating that the E63S is a piece of crap?

Please do post some examples. And please do post some examples of where people are stating the F90 M5 is the greatest car in the world.

Good luck.

There is a difference between fanboiism and simply stating the available facts. I also find it funny that there is so much hate for the BMW F90 M5 on a BMW website - especially when it is outperforming - more times than not - the E63S accoriding to the available testing.

Could there be a bias? Especially for those who are on here as MB owners and perhaps need to justify their purchase?

You don't have to answer - that was a rhetorical question.

This happens every time a new model is launched. There was so much hate for the F10, F80/F82 recently. Now nobody complains.

It's funny how F10 is the best looking M5 according to some members here but at launch there was so much hate. E39 was the best looking imo.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by elitex

Yeah because they're coming here like this Goonba guy..... Lol Kidding

And I agree both cars are great. I've said it a few times now. I am sure I'll end up buying an E63s also in the next few years when I get tired of the M5.

That guy is another idiot, that I have no clue what he is after. Just another lunatic.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Please. All boards are the same. That said - who is stating that the E63S is a piece of crap?

Please do post some examples. And please do post some examples of where people are stating the F90 M5 is the greatest car in the world.

Good luck.

There is a difference between fanboiism and simply stating the available facts. I also find it funny that there is so much hate for the BMW F90 M5 on a BMW website - especially when it is outperforming - more times than not - the E63S accoriding to the available testing.

Could there be a bias? Especially for those who are on here as MB owners and perhaps need to justify their purchase?

You don't have to answer - that was a rhetorical question.

The CarWow test got a lot of hate, because it showed the E63 S outperforming the M5 on the strip. To my eyes the test was pretty fair. The performance results so far have been pretty equal (the M5 F90 pulls harder initially on some tests, on others it is tied, and the E 63 S pulls harder at top end). The braking test was a little weird, although nothing to be surprised. Then later on this very thread which the E63 S beat the M5 F90 by 0.1s (ridiculous difference by the way), people saying Sutcliffe can't drive (LOL). Then there is the ridiculous discussion about the tyres and their effect. Who cares?

I am not saying you are one of the members who come here to the forum mainly to cause silly arguments, but there is a lot of members here who come with the sole purpose of dare I say it, shitposting.

I will comment again, I think both these cars are amazing. I haven't driven the M5 F90 (and I will reserve my judgement on both cars' performance abilities until I drive the M5 on track and street, as I have driven the E63 S on track and on the streets), but I have driven the E63 S. It is an outstanding piece of kit. Therefore there is no need for all this hate on both directions (morons who come to criticize the M5 F90, claiming the E63 S is better, and morons who do the opposite). Both are the best supersaloons money can buy, and that is the end.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Please. All boards are the same. That said - who is stating that the E63S is a piece of crap?

Please do post some examples. And please do post some examples of where people are stating the F90 M5 is the greatest car in the world.

Good luck.

There is a difference between fanboiism and simply stating the available facts. I also find it funny that there is so much hate for the BMW F90 M5 on a BMW website - especially when it is outperforming - more times than not - the E63S accoriding to the available testing.

Could there be a bias? Especially for those who are on here as MB owners and perhaps need to justify their purchase?

You don't have to answer - that was a rhetorical question.

This is the versus section so I find fruitful dialogue to be relevant. There has been some interesting posts on all sides though.

I dont know one owner of an E63S who has come here and spouted out bullshit on either car or what you called "hate". Im probably only one of two (Wolf is the other) and you havent heard that from me or him. I want the car (F90) but unfortunately it didnt come out in time so I got the E63S and its an Edition 1 which makes it more unique and separates it from the normal 63's (IMHO) which sometimes blend too easily in the the C and S class world

Or maybe its the F90 future owners justifying what they WILL get. Its easily spun both ways since the majority dont have the car yet and cant speak to personal experiences. I have not even mentioned my ownership thoughts here cause I got the car in November and this place was not alive yet. But its in the Versus section of the F10 M5.

I have had 11 AMGS = Benz Fan Boy
I have had 8 M's = BMW Fan Boy

LOL.

Great cars and they all served their purpose well. Well maybe not my 2005 CL65 as that car was just gobs of tq and hp but zero driveability.

My E63S by the fires...

[Goonba]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The CarWow test got a lot of hate, because it showed the E63 S outperforming the M5 on the strip. To my eyes the test was pretty fair. The performance results so far have been pretty equal (the M5 F90 pulls harder initially on some tests, on others it is tied, and the E 63 S pulls harder at top end). The braking test was a little weird, although nothing to be surprised. Then later on this very thread which the E63 S beat the M5 F90 by 0.1s (ridiculous difference by the way), people saying Sutcliffe can't drive (LOL). Then there is the ridiculous discussion about the tyres and their effect. Who cares?

I am not saying you are one of the members who come here to the forum mainly to cause silly arguments, but there is a lot of members here who come with the sole purpose of dare I say it, shitposting.

I will comment again, I think both these cars are amazing. I haven't driven the M5 F90 (and I will reserve my judgement on both cars' performance abilities until I drive the M5 on track and street, as I have driven the E63 S on track and on the streets), but I have driven the E63 S. It is an outstanding piece of kit. Therefore there is no need for all this hate on both directions (morons who come to criticize the M5 F90, claiming the E63 S is better, and morons who do the opposite). Both are the best supersaloons money can buy, and that is the end.

thanks Carlos. I hope there is no chicken wire on the fence

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The CarWow test got a lot of hate, because it showed the E63 S outperforming the M5 on the strip. To my eyes the test was pretty fair. The performance results so far have been pretty equal (the M5 F90 pulls harder initially on some tests, on others it is tied, and the E 63 S pulls harder at top end). The braking test was a little weird, although nothing to be surprised. Then later on this very thread which the E63 S beat the M5 F90 by 0.1s (ridiculous difference by the way), people saying Sutcliffe can't drive (LOL). Then there is the ridiculous discussion about the tyres and their effect. Who cares?

I am not saying you are one of the members who come here to the forum mainly to cause silly arguments, but there is a lot of members here who come with the sole purpose of dare I say it, shitposting.

I will comment again, I think both these cars are amazing. I haven't driven the M5 F90 (and I will reserve my judgement on both cars' performance abilities until I drive the M5 on track and street, as I have driven the E63 S on track and on the streets), but I have driven the E63 S. It is an outstanding piece of kit. Therefore there is no need for all this hate on both directions (morons who come to criticize the M5 F90, claiming the E63 S is better, and morons who do the opposite). Both are the best supersaloons money can buy, and that is the end.

I have no hate for either car. I just find it odd that you focus on the Carwow test when another Carwow test had the F90 quicker. And pretty much every other review has the F90 quicker including Top Gear. Road course is even more unanimous. Like I said earlier - I have bought cars that (at least stock) didn't live up to the hype - and I accepted that. Reviews caught these issues first for the C7Z - they were right. So sometimes that is how it goes.

I certainly believe Steven Sutcliffe can drive - he is one of my favourites.

So far from what I can see and read - the F90 is slightly quicker to 60 and the 1/4 and is definitely better on a road course. Real world tests are coming - and the cars are extremely close.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

This is the versus section so I find fruitful dialogue to be relevant. There has been some interesting posts on all sides though.

I dont know one owner of an E63S who has come here and spouted out bullshit on either car or what you called "hate". Im probably only one of two (Wolf is the other) and you havent heard that from me or him. I want the car (F90) but unfortunately it didnt come out in time so I got the E63S and its an Edition 1 which makes it more unique and separates it from the normal 63's (IMHO) which sometimes blend too easily in the the C and S class world

Or maybe its the F90 future owners justifying what they WILL get. Its easily spun both ways since the majority dont have the car yet and cant speak to personal experiences. I have not even mentioned my ownership thoughts here cause I got the car in November and this place was not alive yet. But its in the Versus section of the F10 M5.

I have had 11 AMGS = Benz Fan Boy
I have had 8 M's = BMW Fan Boy

LOL.

Great cars and they all served their purpose well. Well maybe not my 2005 CL65 as that car was just gobs of tq and hp but zero driveability.

My E63S by the fires...

Nice car - I have also owned both. There were multiple people who had E63S's on order or who listed MB's or Audi's that did in fact just take the F90 apart.

As I said above - they are both very close - it does come down to personal, subjective tastes - but from a performance perspective - it seems the F90 has a slight edge. Slight. But an edge.

[Quickburn7]

One of the few owners of both cars here and they are equal in performance and there will be no way to tell any difference without a VBOX. What people should really be focusing on when picking which one of these to buy is the personality they want. Both cars have such unique characteristics I feel that’s what people should focus on!
I really liked my E63 and really like the M5 but for very different reasons. These Magazines aren’t spending the time with the cars to really feel how different they really are performance aside.

[Goonba]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I wonder why Mercedes UK isn't choosing to use them? Hmm.

They do, I have them on my car. Hence why I was saying I have no idea why these tests have Michelins. If you go to original E63s reviews back in early 2017, the UK cars all have Pirellis and the reviews state this is the factory tyre.

Don't get me wrong, I also used to think Pirellis were inferior, and when I got them on my car I just accepted it as "cost cutting" by the dealer. But alas I was wrong.

[Goonba]

Not sure why its so offensive to some people to discuss which civilian car is quicker on a Vs board. Especially, when its AMG vs M and not Renault 1.2tdi vs Peugeot 1.4tsi. This just happens to be the most active board on the topic. I am sure there is a board somewhere where people argue whether the Maybach or Phantom have the softest closing doors.

I mean people pay to watch motorsport to see which car is quickest by 0.002s, does that make them lunatics? This is the closest the majority here will get to "motorsport", and its great that AMG and M give us the opportunity to argue why either car is 0.1s faster.