[JustChris]

Originally Posted by TiredGeek

Some very interesting comments in here, valid points mostly, but it seems very few of you have ever actually driven an old Defender.

They're nothing at all like anything else on the road. To drive one regularly is a chore, and a chore the owners love.
There's just something about the driving experience that draws you in, it's like driving a 50's classic. It's fun. It's involving. It's bloody hard work. It's slow. The handling is awful. It's noisy. It's also more addictive than crack.

Personally I think sales of the last live axle Defenders tailed off was because the price started to creep up above the competition.
Who in their right mind is going to fork out £10k more for a Defender when there are much better vehicles around that arguably do the job better. Only dye in the blood owners, and as has been pointed out above, there's simply not enough of those around.

The new Defender is a modified Discovery with a name trying to capitalise on the heritage.
FAR too many computers, soft looking bodywork, designed for the city and maybe to tow a horsebox.
Great vehicle yes, misses the mark by a mile and waaaaaaaaaay too pricey.
If you see one in utility company markings then you just know they got a 50% discount.

I don't think it will sell well, classic Defender owners won't want one, even if they could afford it, and the people who do buy it will be buying into the lifestyle and would have bought a Discovery / Velar / RRS / Jaguar if they hadn't bought this.

I've had several Landies over the years, if it wasn't for the tax, fuel consumption and the fact that I regularly do a 500 mile each way trip I'd have another. But it would be a heavily modified live axle Defender. For a road car I'll stick with the 335 thanks

For the comments from all of us about the new Defender being the Disco4 successor. This video is quite incredible.

It looks re skinned to the millimetre although it's all new chassis of course.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

For the comments from all of us about the new Defender being the Disco4 successor. This video is quite incredible.

It looks re skinned to the millimetre although it's all new chassis of course.

Probably why I like it, I always thought the Discovery 3&4 was a real high point for Land Rover in design terms. Seemed to hit the spot globally, and with better reliability could have been an even bigger hit. It always struck me as a modern 'defender' (in that if you'd renewed the original Land Rover every ten years, rather than every 70, a D4 is quite likely to be where you ended up).

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Probably why I like it, I always thought the Discovery 3&4 was a real high point for Land Rover in design terms. Seemed to hit the spot globally, and with better reliability could have been an even bigger hit. It always struck me as a modern 'defender' (in that if you'd renewed the original Land Rover every ten years, rather than every 70, a D4 is quite likely to be where you ended up).

The dimensions are spooky though are they not, windscreen rake, the lot!

[JustChris]

So does anyone know when the first Grenadier rolls off the line in Bridgend?

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

The dimensions are spooky though are they not, windscreen rake, the lot!

They are! Has anyone checked the part numbers for the windscreens cost saving to be had there!

Originally Posted by JustChris

So does anyone know when the first Grenadier rolls off the line in Bridgend?

I think that they said late 2021, although whether that's proper saleable prod models?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JustChris

So does anyone know when the first Grenadier rolls off the line in Bridgend?

Breaking news today, Bridgend project put on hold.

Ineos looking at a buying a Merc site in France. British engineering at its best.....

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Breaking news today, Bridgend project put on hold.

Ineos looking at a buying a Merc site in France. British engineering at its best.....

[MashinBenzin]

From the beeb:
"Mercedes-Benz put the Daimler car assembly plant in France up for sale last week.

It was dedicated to its smart car, called the EQ fortwo, which has been recently developed and is a similar size to the Grenadier.

Ineos said it made the location "ideally suited" to the Grenadier."

A Smart [EQ] Fortwo is a similar size to the Grenadier don't think LR have much to worry about - except it's not true...

Interesting move from Ineos and again shows how serious they are, snapping up a plant that has, no doubt, been heavily invested in is a good business move. As long as the lack of Union Jacks doesn't kill the car's appeal.

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Breaking news today, Bridgend project put on hold.

Ineos looking at a buying a Merc site in France. British engineering at its best.....

and the plant will now be within the single market and it's just in time supply of BMW 6 Cyl engines will not be held up by striking French fishermen blockading ports!!

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

and the plant will now be within the single market and it's just in time supply of BMW 6 Cyl engines will not be held up by striking French fishermen blockading ports!!

I was going to say, LR will be happy as it means the build quality will be even worse than their's.....

[TodmordenLad]

Wales Ineos 4x4 vehicle plant 'suspended' in Bridgend - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53317740

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Wales Ineos 4x4 vehicle plant 'suspended' in Bridgend - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53317740

Did you skip half the thread?

[speedski]

tell you what theres a guy near us who works for JLR....hes got a few of the JLR range on his drive and he's has the defender since lockdown (he had a prototype and now its a production variant).

He parks it next to a velar he has.

Makes the velar look like a mini.

Ineos looking at France, despite being funded by a BREXIT backer. Typical.

[strike4A]

https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/en...d-transmission

Coming along nicely. B58 and B57 options.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

The old Defender definitely did not sell well enough. LR had no option but to.move it to a different market, I.e. widen the appeal.

Agree, there is a real chance that it will steal Disco sales and might even kill it off. The Defender is far more a successor to the Discovery 3/4 than it is to the old Defender.

Each model does have a niche as well as the crossover with other models. Need full adult sized seven seats, it's only the Discovery that does that. Want the full practicality with luxury, only Disco. Want the full set of off road ability - only Disco or Defender. Want the V8s? You'll need a Range Rover. Blah blah.

If most people are buying Discoveries for off-road ability and only 80% of its practicality, then I think the Defender will kill it as well as bringing in the image-conscious buyers that it also targets.

The biggest question mark in the range for me is the Velar - it's possibly a looks-driven purchase, why choose a Velar when you can have the same 4-cylinder engines in the Defender and the sixes in the RRS. But that's seeing it through my lens.

the discovery in my opinion looks better than the defender which looks like a jumped up jeep renegade. I drive past them on my way to work as the lr sales/service next door to my work and cannot believe how someone would want to buy it.

[Danny Fireblade]

So they have finally revealed the interior and for the whole I like it.

https://ineosgrenadier.com/en-gb/the...d-to-work-hard

Seeing as its got the same engine and gearbox as my 430d and they have also stole the drive from BMW at least if I go for it I will have less of a worry about the reliability of some items.

[JR1664]

Interesting cycling Icon / function on the steering wheel bearing in mind they sponsor a bloody great cycling team

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...ing-wheel/amp/

Needless to say the shit has hit the proverbial fan in parts of the cycling community.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Interesting cycling Icon / function on the steering wheel bearing in mind they sponsor a bloody great cycling team

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...ing-wheel/amp/

Needless to say the shit has hit the proverbial fan in parts of the cycling community.

this feature if it is loud enough is amazing we have EVs making noise for pedestrian safety so why not help keep cyclists safe.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

this feature if it is loud enough is amazing we have EVs making noise for pedestrian safety so why not help keep cyclists safe.

Its down as a 'toot', would be interested to see if it was actually louder than the noise of a hoofing great 4X4 powered by a BMW petrol or diesel six pot on some humongous tyres designed for serious rural use.

Its hardly going to sneak up on you now is it , so the perception from some is its a 'get out of the way button'. I'm open minded, might be useful for EV's but even their 'whine' and tyre noise is usually heard on the bike.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Its down as a 'toot', would be interested to see if it was actually louder than the noise of a hoofing great 4X4 powered by a BMW petrol or diesel six pot on some humongous tyres designed for serious rural use.

Its hardly going to sneak up on you now is it , so the perception from some is its a 'get out of the way button'. I'm open minded, might be useful for EV's but even their 'whine' and tyre noise is usually heard on the bike.

Given some cyclists ride as though they cant see, hear or indeed expect anything else to be on the road, it sounds like a great idea.

Some sort of bike tosser on the front bumper might be a good option...

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Given some cyclists ride as though they cant see, hear or indeed expect anything else to be on the road, it sounds like a great idea.

Some sort of bike tosser on the front bumper might be a good option...

Indeed, red lights? Those are for other people....

As for the toot button, well the cyclists on the canal path near me use their bells to let you know they are coming through, which is a good thing and I stop to let them past with maximum room, if only cyclists would return the favour occasionally on the road....

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Given some cyclists ride as though they cant see, hear or indeed expect anything else to be on the road, it sounds like a great idea.

Some sort of bike tosser on the front bumper might be a good option...

Being an Audi driver it appears you have all of the qualities to be an 'annoying cyclist'