[JellyStyle]

Forum members...

There is almost no data on if these Pure turbos last or work well after high mileage. I know a bunch of people have upgraded their setups with Pure, I see people posting about fears of bending rods (i guess its happened), but in all reality, how safe is running a Stg 2 turbo (bigger compressor wheel, boost etc)?

Are these killing motors after 10k miles? Does anyone know anyone with a solid setup that has a reliable high-mileage car? I would deeply appreciate it, as only forum members keep vendors honest when it comes to these things..

Thanks again folks..

[chorizotaco]

Not worth it unless you're building the engine.

[mike@x-ph.com]

The turbo itself does not KILL a motor. It all depends on your map and tuner.

A good tuner can make significant power without killing the engine, or it can be too aggressive, and reliability will suffer.

[Kirill_Nezd]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

The turbo itself does not KILL a motor. It all depends on your map and tuner.

A good tuner can make significant power without killing the engine, or it can be too aggressive, and reliability will suffer.

this statement does not apply to this engine. even to get the most out of stock turbos, the first step is to change the connecting rods. for mod turbo you have to do it even more so if you don't want to see your connecting rods from the outside of the engine

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Kirill_A2Performance

this statement does not apply to this engine. even to get the most out of stock turbos, the first step is to change the connecting rods. for mod turbo you have to do it even more so if you don't want to see your connecting rods from the outside of the engine

You can upgrade the turbos and keep the engine stock without affecting reliability. It's all about your map and tuner.

Now, if you upgrade your engine, you can make even more power safely.

[Kirill_Nezd]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You can upgrade the turbos and keep the engine stock without affecting reliability. It's all about your map and tuner.

Now, if you upgrade your engine, you can make even more power safely.

what you are saying doesn't make any sense. the reliable limit of the connecting rods of this motor is 650-700 tq on the flywheel. everything above is a casino game, not related to the tuner, but to luck. we have proven that the limit of stock turbos is 880 torque, and for this we had to completely come up with a new intake, manufacture and install custom intake manifolds with optimized air flow. this means that the stock turbos work with a margin of performance if the rule of 650 tq is followed. there is no point to use mod a turbo until the engine is built, unless of course you have a spare engine in the garage

[Kponti]

Originally Posted by Kirill_A2Performance

what you are saying doesn't make any sense. the reliable limit of the connecting rods of this motor is 650-700 tq on the flywheel. everything above is a casino game, not related to the tuner, but to luck. we have proven that the limit of stock turbos is 880 torque, and for this we had to completely come up with a new intake, manufacture and install custom intake manifolds with optimized air flow. this means that the stock turbos work with a margin of performance if the rule of 650 tq is followed. there is no point to use mod a turbo until the engine is built, unless of course you have a spare engine in the garage

Where did this info originate? How official is this?

[Kirill_Nezd]

Originally Posted by Kponti

Where did this info originate? How official is this?

we just have a lot of experience in tuning these engines. 99% of customers will not tell you on the forums that they received banana rods. and this is a fairly common situation on these engines, when the tuner goes over 700 tq. I'm not saying that this will immediately break the connecting rods, but you need to be prepared for this. there is a lot of dependency on driving style. if you cruising at 80 mph and pushing sometimes, the engine will probably go tens of thousands of miles. but if you always push hard, then 5 thousand miles will be a success. the fact is that this engine has a rods ratio (connecting rod length and the stroke) of about 1.55, it is a standard high-performance engine, rides well at low revs, throttle response, and has less impact on the environment. but with an increase in torque, the load on the connecting rods increases a lot. the golden mean is 1.70, for example sti, evo. above 2.0 is already F1 and motorcycles

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Kirill_A2Performance

what you are saying doesn't make any sense. the reliable limit of the connecting rods of this motor is 650-700 tq on the flywheel. everything above is a casino game, not related to the tuner, but to luck. we have proven that the limit of stock turbos is 880 torque, and for this we had to completely come up with a new intake, manufacture and install custom intake manifolds with optimized air flow. this means that the stock turbos work with a margin of performance if the rule of 650 tq is followed. there is no point to use mod a turbo until the engine is built, unless of course you have a spare engine in the garage

If what I am saying does not make sense, you should not be tuning cars. With all due respect, of course

Nothing in tuning is a game of luck; it's all calculated and can be predicted by data logging and not crossing limits.

Here is what I said in my post, explained in simpler terms.

Upgrading the turbos does not damage the engine because upgrading turbos does not mean significantly more power.
You must retune the ECU to make more power.

So even if the engine is at its limits, upgrading the turbos will not damage it as long as the map does not cross the boundaries.

You can argue that upgrading the turbos is not worth it if the engine is at stock limits with the stock turbo, but that's a different conversation.

[Kirill_Nezd]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

If what I am saying does not make sense, you should not be tuning cars. With all due respect, of course

Nothing in tuning is a game of luck; it's all calculated and can be predicted by data logging and not crossing limits.

Here is what I said in my post, explained in simpler terms.

Upgrading the turbos does not damage the engine because upgrading turbos does not mean significantly more power.
You must retune the ECU to make more power.

So even if the engine is at its limits, upgrading the turbos will not damage it as long as the map does not cross the boundaries.

You can argue that upgrading the turbos is not worth it if the engine is at stock limits with the stock turbo, but that's a different conversation.

The topic starter initially asked how reliable are serious setups with a turbo mod. it is unlikely that he asked this question about reliability if he leaves the power and torque of the engine at the stage2 level.

Unfortunately logs are not a panacea. in the logs you won't see how the connecting rod will slowly bend. when you see even small changes in the logs it will be too late, the changes in the molecular structure of the metal will be irreversible.
I guess we have different concepts of reliability.

installing mod turbos without any ECU retune will damage the engine if you continue to use the car for a long time and do not pay attention to errors, because the engine will run lean.

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by Kirill_A2Performance

99% of customers will not tell you on the forums that they received banana rods. and this is a fairly common situation on these engines, when the tuner goes over 700 tq.

I think in an earlier post you said 650-700 tq at the crank? Any idea what that is at the wheels?

I'll be using a hub dyno and want to manage the torque to around 650 tq maximum. My feeling is that is not a lot more than stock torque which is about 550 tq at the wheels and probably 600+ at the crank.

I was going to add that Steve Dinan say 800 wheel torque is safe. Big difference between 650-700 crank and 800. It's hard to know what to believe.

Thanks

[Kirill_Nezd]

Originally Posted by choppedliver

I think in an earlier post you said 650-700 tq at the crank? Any idea what that is at the wheels?

I'll be using a hub dyno and want to manage the torque to around 650 tq maximum. My feeling is that is not a lot more than stock torque which is about 550 tq at the wheels and probably 600+ at the crank.

Thanks

I'm talking about the calculated actual torque that you can see in the ECU logs if the tuner has not changed the torque model in the calibrations. this is the best way to find out how much power the engine is putting out. you should not be guided by a dyno without measuring the stock values. It's no secret that dyno result is highly dependent on the specific tuning shop and brand of dyno. the difference can be up to 80 torque and 80 hp.
if you measure whp wtq before tuning, then you can start from these values. the safest gain for non comp version is +120hp +40tq for st1. st2 +160hp +100torque or even less. and believe me, these are very tangible and pleasant numbers if the calibration is done by an experienced tuner who adds horses and not ponies


800 wheel tq is safe. but not for long time for stock engine