[jnotrom711]

So had a lovely Monday driving from Scottsdale to Las Vegas (which is a really fun drive in my 2019 pristine f90 comp), when I was unlucky enough to be behind a senior citizen (putting it nicely) who should probably not be on the road, let alone pulling a 20 ft horse trailer, decided to ignore all lane lines as we are entering a 2 lane round about, as well as ignoring while in the round about...

Long story short he was trying to cut the corner, so to not have to follow the round about (more of a straight line). I was lucky enough to be behind him (going maybe 20 MPH) both of us in the left lane (me directly behind him) approaching the 2 lane wide round about, when he decided to drift into the right lane, just before the round about, fine, no problem, I stayed course in the left lane we were in, entered the round about with him on my right side now, both going around the round about, when he decided to drift back in to the left lane at the crest of the round about, no signal, no looking, no checking, just drift back in, had no idea a car was there (ME) I slammed on my brakes, swerved up to the left up on to the curb, but his trailer still nailed me as he completely unaware, crossed solid white lines 2 times, ignored lane lines, and tried to cut the corner so his horses wouldn't lose their balance in the trailer.... He had no clue a car was there at all, and im lucky he had enough brains to notice and stop AFTER his trailer ripped my car apart.

He, ripped my front right wheel off, broken control arm, ball joints among other suspension items. Right front bumper ripped off, right front fender destroyed, both passenger side doors pushed in, both passenger wheels destroyed, tire ripped off the front right, both left wheels smacked the curb as I was pushed/swerved to the left to try to avoid him, right rocker panel pushed in. Hard to tell in the photo, the wheel wasnt completely ripped off, but for reference in the photos, it appears my right front wheel is just turned, but if you saw the other side the left front wheel was actually turned to the right, so the orientation of the wheel you see is not because of steering wheel, its not even connected to the steering/suspension.

No way he could have been under the age of 80 years old (which is fine, but needs a driving test for sure). He gets out of his f250 and starts yelling at me that this is my fault because he has a trailer, that cant make the bend in the corner and I should watch out and slow down. Mind you, I was BEHIND him until we entered the round about. So I couldn't have been going THAT fast with him in front of me....

Not to mention, it was a standard f250, pulling a 2 horse trailer, at most 20 ft long trailer. We aren't talking a 30-40-50 ft long semi trailer which has to cut corner. This is a 2 lane wide, LARGE round about, with many many semi trucks that have no problem not cutting the corner, not a 90 degree turn where a large trailer would need extra space for wide turns.... in fact as he was yelling at me, a large semi truck at least 3x as long as his truck/trailer combo comes around the round about, as we watch him go around the round about IN 1 LANE the hole time , I lost it.... Not my finest moment, I then told him to "shut your mouth (with some profanity in there) and learn how to drive, because THAT SEMI TRUCK STAYED IN HIS LANE NO PROBLEM!!! And you COULDN'T?and you have the nerve to start yelling at me!!!" ... Mind you, NO damage to his truck, and his trailer only had the sheet metal fender ripped off, while my $130K once, pristine, M5 Comp is sitting there un-drivable with a wheel ripped off. But EVEN if it was true that he couldn't make the curve with the trailer, thats still not a defense, as it is still HIS responsibility to use turn signals, and stay in his lane unless he legally has a "oversized" load warning and pilot/following vehicles announcing the oversized load. Just because (even semi-trucks) think they need to cut lanes, and made wide corners, its is their responsibility to make sure other lanes are clear, or stay in their designated lane, it does not make it legal to cut/make wide corners, nor does it make me at fault even IF his truck trailer combo was too long to make the corner. As I was in my designated lane the entire time. But that was not even REMOTELY the case here, his truck trailer could have EASILY stayed in his lane, he just chose not to based on him pulling 2 horses he didnt want to disturb.

Sooooo with all that said, police came, my M5 towed to somewhere in the middle of the desert awaiting an insurance adjuster, I wait an hour for a taxi to take me an hour into Phoenix to get a rental car. While the old man simply drives off along his way like nothing happened...

So he is attempting to blame me for this which i'm confident both insurance companies will find him at fault. Police did not issue a citation based on "he said she said" and will leave insurance to investigate....

My questions to anyone in the know:

-i'm hoping the car is totaled, because after this I really dont want it back.... If it is totaled, I fully anticipate the insurance company will do all they can to devalue what they pay me. Any strategy/advice that could be given to ensure maximum value for total loss pay out?

-if anyone on here thinks it could be enough to total it, and they don't total it, is there any strategy/advice to ensure they DO total it when it should be?

-if the car is NOT totaled (which I actually don't think it will be), any strategy/advice to pursue a diminished value claim? As we all know, an M5 with an accident, even if repaired correctly by certified M technicians etc. will be hurt dramatically in value. If I had to guess on a car worth (before the accident) north of $75k-$85k, an accident on it will affect the value at least $8k-$15k in my opinion.

Some photos to hopefully paint a better picture of the incident.

ALSO: the photos were right side up when posted, I have no idea how to fix that or adjust it. Even if I flip them upside down on my computer and put them in, they still arent orientated correctly, so I gave up....

[NoMods]

Are you sure you're not in Australia?

Yes roundabouts sucks with stupid ass drivers

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by armoredsaint

Are you sure you're not in Australia?

Yes roundabouts sucks with stupid ass drivers

Yes, I gave up trying to make the photos upright, I tried several times, not sure if its because i'm on a Mac, or using safari or what. But they're all correctly orientated until, I submit post. I even tried flipping them on the computer. So I gave up, if there's an easy fix, im happy to do it, but I dont care enough to spend any more than 30 seconds on it.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

So, so sorry to hear this. Glad you are okay though.

Will PM you shortly.

[Rafichicago]

I wasn’t able to go through the whole rant describing the situation. I am on the road a lot with many years of experience. One thing I can say is that. I am avoiding being next to pickups with trailers and semi trucks. Especially in tight corners and roundabouts. Regardless of who is at fault in that case I’d rather play it safe and either pass him beforehand or stay behind throughout the roundabout just to avoid situations like yours. So what it’s his fault ? Your car is damaged and it could’ve been avoided. It’s not like someone run a red light or something else you didn’t have control over. Not blaming you for what happened at all. Just speaking from experience. What’s dumb here is that it doesn’t take any additional course or lessons to drive anything with a trailer. Hope you’re fine. Cars are repairable.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

I wasn’t able to go through the whole rant describing the situation. I am on the road a lot with many years of experience. One thing I can say is that. I am avoiding being next to pickups with trailers and semi trucks. Especially in tight corners and roundabouts. Regardless of who is at fault in that case I’d rather play it safe and either pass him beforehand or stay behind throughout the roundabout just to avoid situations like yours. So what it’s his fault ? Your car is damaged and it could’ve been avoided. It’s not like someone run a red light or something else you didn’t have control over. Not blaming you for what happened at all. Just speaking from experience. What’s dumb here is that it doesn’t take any additional course or lessons to drive anything with a trailer. Hope you’re fine. Cars are repairable.

Yes, no injuries to anyone. And generally speaking yes I also avoid this, however this is a wide roundabout with 2 lanes going all the way around. There was no attempt to pass him at all in the round about. He exited the left lane we were both in veered to the right, for all I know he was going to turn right out of the round about while I stayed course. You said "It’s not like someone run a red light or something else you didn’t have control over." So what precisely would I have control over in this scenario OTHER than not entering the round about at all? Potentially being rear-ended by people behind me in the process. Just like a red light accident you mention that would "not be avoidable" that car that was hit by a red-light runner could have avoided it also, by not entering an intersection. is that reality? No. thats how these events occur.

I stayed in the lane, never changed. He was moving AWAY from me as I was behind him, and simply because the inside lane takes up less distance, even if we were both traveling the exact same speed I would still gain ground on him which I did. maybe 1 car length before he hit me. However I was still behind him. With his trailer directly to my right side. Plenty of space. No need to avoid being in the roundabout with him. The issue is he decided to ignore all lane lines, and use the round about as if it was 1 lane, enter and exit lanes at his will, with no signals, no notification, or observation that there was other vehicles in the round about.

The fact that it's a 2 lane round about as shown from the aerial photo, signifies there is PLENTY of room for 2 vehicles to use the round about. SO LONG AS, people stay in the lane. Which is why THERE IS SOLID WHITE LINES. Which you are not supposed to cross. Those signify to NOT leave your lane.

Reading the entire thing would maybe behoove you. But, Yes of course ALL car accidents are avoidable. ALL. The problem is are the all avoided? Absolutely not. There is other factors at play when making statement like that. Such as this was NOT a tight corner AT ALL. IN one of the photos posted you can clearly see other trailers, and semis in the round about, with PLENTY of room. This was not a tight 90 corner where a SEMI truck would have had to make a wide turn. But again, even in those situations, the law does NOT allow for certain vehicles to break the law, like a semi on a tight corner. They STILL have to stay in their lane, and ensure it is safe to leave the lane or cut the corner. It is NOT the other drivers responsibility to make sure they know how to drive. Now seeing an accident coming that would be avoidable otherwise show negligence, and that is a different issue all together. IE, someone blocking an intersection, and their light turns red, they're still in the intersection and I want to show them a lesson by gunning it and tee boning them. Even though I had a green light and right of way in that scenario, and technically HE was blocking the intersection with a red light, if I plow into him after I was stopped at my light, is not the same as me clear entering the intersection and him blowing a red light and I tee bone him. It is my responsibility to do what I can to AVOID an accident, which I did, I slammed on my brakes, I stayed in my lane. He chose not to stop, chose not to stay in his lane. I can do anything about that from the driver seat of my car.

I absolutely had ZERO control in him not looking in his mirror, using a turn signal (even though illegal to leave the lane while in the round about). He exited the left lane. Was fully in the right lane. and decided to shoot back over to the left lane, no signals no nothing at one time. So yes it's actually very similar to him running a red light. I had NO idea he was coming back into the left lane. How would I know this? Sure I could have driven more defensively and waited for him to complete the entire round about before entering, but thats not how this works. We both went into round about in our own lanes. As the round about curved to the right (for both of us) I followed it, as did he. As the round about curved back to the left, thats when he then vacated the right lane AGAIN, and came into the left lane, where I was. It's no different than a straight road, and him drifting into my lane and hitting me.

Sure, I could never drive next to a truck or trailer, but that sure would make it more difficult to get around town. Fact of the matter is he was in his lane, and veered out of it into my lane. There was no way for me to know he would do this, until I saw it. at which point I slammed on my brakes, veered up unto the median, and he still hit me.

So to answer your question, yes, in the event of an unsafe illegal lane change, it is absolutely his fault that he hit me. It was not my car that impacted him. It was his trailer drifting over that hit me as we were going the same speed. Just like if he illegally ran a red light, ignoring it, and tee boned a car with the right of way. Would that be avoidable? Absolutely. Was avoiding it feasible at that given second by me? No, it was too late. Just like a red light impact the person with right of way in theory COULD anticipate someone running a red light and wait at a green light for every car to stop, but it is on the OTHER driver to pay attention to red lights, and in this case, lane lines, and other vehicles on the road, and keeping his vehicle with in that lane line. Which he did not.

But yes, I could have avoided it and would have, had I known there was a completely incompetent driver who had no intention of following the RULES of the road. It is not my responsibility to ensure he knows the rules of the road and follows them. Just like it's my responsibility to follow the rules when i'm driving for the SAFETY of other people on the road. Yes it is my responsibility to drive defensively and try to anticipate potential accidents. which I do on a regular basis. Ive avoided MANY accidents over the years based on my driving ability. Ones that would have been much worse than this, if had I ALSO not been paying attention like the other drivers. Only so much one can anticipate or prepare for. Other than never driving on a 2/4 lane road what would my course of action have been other than to not be there? He had no idea I was there, but it doesn't make it my fault in the slightest, thats what the lane lines are for.

[micvite]

jnotrom711 as far as getting max value for your car, ots all going to be based on comparable cars unless your car was basically brand new (like less than 5k miles and a few months old) they're gonna show you other cars within 50 miles of the zip code you live in, and say based on this this is what your car is worth. If you disagree, tell them that, tell them why you disagree (like when I had mine, they were showing me 120k msrp cars and saying look they're selling for 120k so your car is worth 120k instead of the 157 msrp I had, so I had to explain that if those cars were still selling for msrp mine definitely wasn't magically worth 40k less) took a bunch of time and you basically just have to keep making payments if you have them, and just tell them to take their time, don't rush the adjuster, don't seem desperate for the payout, the more you drag it out the more they're willing to meet you closer to your number (I eventually got paid out for my msrp - mileage depreciation which they did at like 1$ a mile which I felt was a bit much, but acceptable to me) AFTER you have a value you're happy with for JUST the car, you tell them oh by the way, I had ppf, ceramic, blah blah blah anything that's permanently attached to the car or was put on right after delivery. At this point they're already done with you and will just approve it just to get it off their desk since it looks bad to have a file sitting for 3-4 months. I got my full 10k for my ppf😂

[M5KEITH]

Sorry to hear but your M5 is NOT totaled.

Seek and get diminished value and check online calculator. Then sell car afterwards if you like.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by M5KEITH

Sorry to hear but your M5 is NOT totaled.

Seek and get diminished value and check online calculator. Then sell car afterwards if you like.

Yes I agree. I highly doubt it’ll be totaled. I’m crossing my fingers it is so I don’t have to deal with repairing it and having an accident on the record. But agree. The chances if it being totaled are slim.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by micvite

jnotrom711 as far as getting max value for your car, ots all going to be based on comparable cars unless your car was basically brand new (like less than 5k miles and a few months old) they're gonna show you other cars within 50 miles of the zip code you live in, and say based on this this is what your car is worth. If you disagree, tell them that, tell them why you disagree (like when I had mine, they were showing me 120k msrp cars and saying look they're selling for 120k so your car is worth 120k instead of the 157 msrp I had, so I had to explain that if those cars were still selling for msrp mine definitely wasn't magically worth 40k less) took a bunch of time and you basically just have to keep making payments if you have them, and just tell them to take their time, don't rush the adjuster, don't seem desperate for the payout, the more you drag it out the more they're willing to meet you closer to your number (I eventually got paid out for my msrp - mileage depreciation which they did at like 1$ a mile which I felt was a bit much, but acceptable to me) AFTER you have a value you're happy with for JUST the car, you tell them oh by the way, I had ppf, ceramic, blah blah blah anything that's permanently attached to the car or was put on right after delivery. At this point they're already done with you and will just approve it just to get it off their desk since it looks bad to have a file sitting for 3-4 months. I got my full 10k for my ppf😂

I doubt they’ll total it. It’s just wishful thinking at this stage. Much more likely it’ll just be repaired and I get to fight for diminished value.

[Rafichicago]

It is very far from getting totaled.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

It is very far from getting totaled.

Agreed, my guess is 15-25k in damage. But I’ve seen cars totaled with that much depending what the salvage value is, and depending if I can get them to replace all 4 wheels that got damaged. Those could bump the repair cost up a good bit. At 7-8,000.00 for new wheels. Will need at least 2 new tires as well, so could be looking at 8-9,000.00 just in wheels and tires.

Also what’s hard to see from the photos is the suspension behind the front right wheel is destroyed. It looks like the steering wheel is just maybe turned, but it’s not the right front corner is basically detached from the rest of the car, so depending what broke under there or if any frame/unibody damage will be the determining factor. If any bolts or attachment hardware was ripped out or any welding needs to be done to anything could add up quickly.

But agreed it’s unlikely to be totaled unless maybe some frame , front clip damage or unibody issues.

I’ll know in the next few days.

[ERC4]

There's a frequent ad in the BMW CCA magazine from Kerr & Sheldon which says- “We’re California’s #1 law firm for Diminished Value and Loss of Use Claims”. 714-531-5900 in Santa Ana. Re loss of use, they mention that daily rental on an M850i is $390/day. I have no experience with them (thank God), but it might be worth a call.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by ERC4

There's a frequent ad in the BMW CCA magazine from Kerr & Sheldon which says- “We’re California’s #1 law firm for Diminished Value and Loss of Use Claims”. 714-531-5900 in Santa Ana. Re loss of use, they mention that daily rental on an M850i is $390/day. I have no experience with them (thank God), but it might be worth a call.

good to know, thank you. ill see how the next few days shake out and go from there.

[snowbimmer]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

Yes, I gave up trying to make the photos upright, I tried several times, not sure if its because i'm on a Mac, or using safari or what. But they're all correctly orientated until, I submit post. I even tried flipping them on the computer. So I gave up, if there's an easy fix, im happy to do it, but I dont care enough to spend any more than 30 seconds on it.

Man. That sucks about as bad as something can suck. Especially one that is pristine. Messing up Marina Bay Blue should be a hate crime.

Here ya go............

[AHall]

I assume this is not a leased car. What were your plans for the car if this accident had not occurred? Were you planning to keep the car for the long term?

[secretariat]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

I wasn’t able to go through the whole rant describing the situation. I am on the road a lot with many years of experience. One thing I can say is that. I am avoiding being next to pickups with trailers and semi trucks. Especially in tight corners and roundabouts. Regardless of who is at fault in that case I’d rather play it safe and either pass him beforehand or stay behind throughout the roundabout just to avoid situations like yours. So what it’s his fault ? Your car is damaged and it could’ve been avoided. It’s not like someone run a red light or something else you didn’t have control over. Not blaming you for what happened at all. Just speaking from experience. What’s dumb here is that it doesn’t take any additional course or lessons to drive anything with a trailer. Hope you’re fine. Cars are repairable.

OP if you live to be 80 years old you will realize that the first thing they do is blame you. Also I understand that you are pissed off but up above ^^^^^ is some good advice.

[Bestle]

There's so many idiots out there that if you want to keep yourself and your car and 1 piece you should take some lessons on defensive driving.

[adeuel]

Can't understand why you'd pull alongside a truck and trailer on the inside lane.
Just asking for trouble, even if he did cross the solid line.
The hassle of all of this thread alone is enough for me.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by AHall

I assume this is not a leased car. What were your plans for the car if this accident had not occurred? Were you planning to keep the car for the long term?

No car is owned out right. No long term plans. I tend to keep cars 3-4 years at the most

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by secretariat

OP if you live to be 80 years old you will realize that the first thing they do is blame you. Also I understand that you are pissed off but up above ^^^^^ is some good advice.

Not actually that mad. Just trying to minimize financial losses

I’ve been on the road many years as well. In nearly 30 years this is my first accident I’ve been involved in.

Please don’t assume I’m a 20 year old kid driving daddy’s car.

This roundabout has plenty of room and he made actions of turning right.

It’s very easy sitting behind a computer to give after the fact advice. But the fact of the matter is the I didn’t have a choice but to continue to drive forward with people behind me. I can’t just stop in the middle of the road while I figure out if this guy planned to stay in his lane or not. That’s why there’s more than one lane.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Bestle

There's so many idiots out there that if you want to keep yourself and your car and 1 piece you should take some lessons on defensive driving.

Noted. Lol. 30 years driving avoided many accidents by doing just that.

As already mentioned it’s easy to say behind the screen of a computer. May you never be on the road at the same time as any horrendous driver.

Even defensive driving sometimes can not avoid a moron on the road.

Appreciate the help though with the questions asked about diminished value and insurance strategy